Fall Back fix: move it to the Charge phase

[Revlid]

Movement Phase

Remove all mention of "Fall Back" in the Movement Phase. Change the "Enemy Models" section to read:
Enemy Models
All models in the same army are friendly models. Models controlled by an opposing player are enemy models. You cannot pick a unit to move in the Movement phase if it is within 1" of an enemy unit. When you move a model in the Movement phase, it may not be moved within 1" of any enemy models.

 
Charge Phase

This section is wholly replaced with the following:
CHARGE SEQUENCE
1. Choose unit to charge or fall back
2. If charging, choose targets
3. Enemy resolves Overwatch or Overrun
4. Make charge or fall back move
 
1. Choose Unit to Charge or Fall Back
Any of your units within 12" of the enemy in your Charge phase can attempt a Charge. You may not choose a unit that Advanced this turn. Any of your units within 1" of an enemy cannot Charge, but can instead Fall Back. 
 
No unit can be selected to Charge and/or Fall Back more than once each Charge phase.
 
2. If Charging, Choose Targets
Once you have chosen an eligible unit to Charge, select one or more enemy units within 12" of them as the target(s) of the Charge. 
 
3. Enemy Resolves Overwatch Or Overrun
Each time a Charge is declared against a unit, the target unit can immediately fire Overwatch at the would-be attacker. A target unit can potentially fire Overwatch several times a turn, though it cannot fire if there are any enemy models within 1" of it. Overwatch is resolved like a normal shooting attack (albeit one resolved in the enemy’s Charge phase) and uses all the normal rules except that a 6 is always required for a successful hit roll, irrespective of the firing model’s Ballistic Skill or any modifiers.
 
Each time a unit Falls Back, enemy units within 1" can immediately Overrun the escaping models, striking at them as they retreat. A unit can potentially Overrun several times a turn. Overrun is resolved like a normal close combat attack (albeit one resolved in the enemy’s Charge phase) and uses all the normal rules except that a 6 is always required for a successful hit roll, irrespective of the attacking model’s Weapon Skill or any modifiers. Overrun attacks can only target the unit that Fell Back, and cannot target models that can FLY.
 
4. Make Charge or Fall Back Move
After any Overwatch has been resolved, roll 2D6. Each model in the Charging unit can move up to this number of inches – this is their charge distance this turn. No part of the model’s base (or hull) can move further than this. The first model you move must finish within 1" of an enemy model from one of the target units. No models in the Charging unit can move within 1" of an enemy unit that was not a target of its Charge. If this is impossible, the Charge fails and no models in the Charging unit move this phase. If the datasheet for a model says it can FLY, it can Charge across models and terrain as if they were not there.
 
After any Overrun attacks have been resolved, each model in a unit that Fell Back can move as if it were the Movement phase. A unit that Fell Back cannot Advance, and must end its move more than 1" away from all enemy units. If this is impossible, the unit fails to Fall Back and no models in the unit can move.
 
Once you’ve moved all the models in a unit that Charged or Fell Back, choose another eligible unit and repeat the above procedure until all eligible units that you want to Charge or Fall Back have done so.
 
Heroic Intervention
At the end of the enemy Charge phase, after the enemy has completed all of their Charge and Fall Back moves, any of your CHARACTERS that are within 3" of an enemy unit may perform a Heroic Intervention. Models that perform a Heroic Intervention can move up to 3", so long as they end the move closer to the nearest enemy model.

 
Other Rules

Fall Back and Shoot
Abilities that allow a unit to fall back and still shoot (e.g. Ultramarines: Codex Discipline, Super-Heavy Walkers) are separated into one of three versions, in order of weakest to strongest:

• At the end of your Movement phase, this unit can Fall Back as if it were the Charge phase. Units that do so cannot shoot or Charge that turn.
• At the end of your Movement phase, this unit can Fall Back as if it were the Charge phase. Units that do so subtract 1 from their hit rolls and cannot Charge for the rest of the turn.
• At the end of your Movement phase, this unit can Fall Back as if it were the Charge phase. Units that do so cannot Charge that turn.

Fall Back and Charge
Abilities that allow a unit to fall back and still charge (e.g. White Scars: Lightning Assault, Evil Sunz: Speed Freek) are separated into one of two versions, in order of weakest to strongest:

• This unit can be selected to Charge and Fall Back once each in the same phase.
• At the end of your Movement phase, this unit can Fall Back as if it were the Charge phase. Units that do so cannot shoot that turn.

Free Movement
Abilities that allow a unit to freely fall back and charge/shoot (e.g. Hit And Run, Rising Crescendo) without restriction or penalty are separated into one of three versions, in order of weakest to strongest:

• At the end of your Movement phase, this unit can Fall Back as if it were the Charge phase.
• At the end of your Movement phase, this unit can Fall Back as if it were the Charge phase. Add 1 to this unit's saving throws against Overrun attacks.
• At the end of your Movement phase, this unit can Fall Back as if it were the Charge phase. Enemy units cannot make Overrun attacks against this unit.

Prevent Fall Back
Abilities that prevent fall back (e.g. No Escape, Soporific Musk) can be left unchanged, or turned into Overrrun boosts, e.g:

• When this unit makes Overrun attacks, a 5 or 6 is required for a successful hit roll, irrespective of the attacking model’s Weapon Skill or any modifiers.
• When this unit makes Overrun attacks, the target unit's Movement characteristic is reduced by 1 for every model it kills (minimum 1") for the rest of that phase.
• When an enemy unit within 1" of this unit Falls Back, your opponent must subtract 1 from saving throws made for the unit that Fell Back for the rest of that phase.

************
Currently, Fall Back is amazing. If you have a unit in melee, you can order it to Fall Back in your Movement phase. The result is that:

• Your unit can avoid being attacked in the Fight phase, thereby cutting in half the damage a powerful melee enemy can inflict.
• Your unit can reposition to cover or safety, and the enemy will need to charge again next turn, eating more Overwatch.
• The rest of your army can shoot at the enemy unit you Fell Back from, thereby allowing you to eliminate a potential threat left stranded in the open.
• In exchange, your unit can't shoot (which they couldn't do anyway) and can't charge (which you obviously didn't want to do, or why would you have them Fall Back?).
• Unless, of course, they can FLY, or are one of the many units (including entire Factions) capable of shooting when they Fall Back anyway, in which case the lack of downside just became another plus.

This version moves Fall Back to the Charge phase - and therefore, after the Shooting phase. It also adds a melee equivalent of Overwatch, called Overrun, performed against units that Fall Back rather than those which Charge. Under this model, the result of Falling Back is that:

• Your unit will take a much smaller amount of damage than it normally would in the Fight phase, thereby reducing the damage a powerful melee enemy can inflict.
• Your unit can reposition to cover or safety, and the enemy will need to charge again next turn, eating more Overwatch as a result.
• That's it.

If Fall Back moves to after the Shooting phase, there's no cartoonish moment where the dust clears and the Khorne Berzerkers blink in confusion to find the lone surviving Guardsman sprinting off into the distance and every other gun in the regiment trained on them. Melee remains a safe haven against non-Overwatch shooting, and Falling Back becomes more of a gamble, because it doesn't completely eliminate casualties from melee. This does make abilities that allow Fall Back-and-Shoot more powerful, by comparison - but in most cases they can be changed into "Fall Back in the Movement/Shooting phase" so that everyone else can shoot. Like they used to be able to.
 
Thoughts?

[Slasher956]

My first though is.... how many strats would have to be changed?

 

2ndly, is the ability to fallback broken?  or is it the amount of rules that allow you to ignore parts of the rule (ie no shooting, no charging etc) & how people make army lists?

 

3rdly, if you do remove/ alter it how will that affect other phases... will increase the power of CC (not the CC units but the CC phase)?

 

4th, how powerful do you think overwatch IS that you want to cut it down?

[Revlid]

My first though is.... how many strats would have to be changed?

 

2ndly, is the ability to fallback broken?  or is it the amount of rules that allow you to ignore parts of the rule (ie no shooting, no charging etc) & how people make army lists?

 

3rdly, if you do remove/ alter it how will that affect other phases... will increase the power of CC (not the CC units but the CC phase)?

 

4th, how powerful do you think overwatch IS that you want to cut it down?

 

 

To answer your first and last questions:

• Relatively few Stratagems would need changing, and those that do are largely covered by the "Other Rules" section in the OP.
• Overwatch isn't affected at all by these changes.

 

To answer your middle two questions:

Yes, this is a boost to melee armies – one which is sorely needed, honestly, but mainly aimed at keeping the game engaging for those armies, instead of a desperate race to get enough Orks into close combat for your one turn of melee attacks before they fall back and you get blasted anyway. Fall Back is not, in itself, broken – but the game already heavily favours the Shooting phase, units who ignore its restrictions are ubiquitous, and even in an ideal state it wouldn't be fun.

 

The way I see it, Fall Back is currently an opt out button against melee-focused armies. Orks, Tyranids, Daemons, and so on have to slog across the entire board, make a charge, eat Overwatch... and then a turn later the T'au, Guard, Necrons, etc can just say "nah" and wander off. Why? There's no way to opt out against being shot. The only way to avoid being shot is to charge (which gets you shot, because Overwatch is a thing) and then stay in combat (which you can't, because Fall Back is a thing). If a melee unit charges on turn 2, it eats 1-2 turns of shooting, 1 turn of Overwatch, then the target Falls Back and it eats another turn of shooting. Meanwhile, the charged unit eats 1 turn of combat. This is grossly unsatisfying (not to mention ineffective) for the combat-focused player. 

 

This fix effectively turns Fall Back into a delayed version of the Overwatch/Retreat dilemma from Kill Team: do you stick around to occupy the enemy unit and try to get some kicks in? Or is your unit valuable enough that you want to try to escape, taking fewer hits in the process but doing no damage of your own? 

 

Now, there's nothing now stopping the enemy unit from just charging you again next turn... but that's the same as the current set-up for Fall Back. The only difference is that in this version, you only get to hit the enemy with Overwatch, rather than your whole army blasting it to pieces the moment you're clear. Which is, you know, pretty much how a fighting retreat should work. You take less damage, you can move to a different position, and you get to plink away with Overwatch again. Or you could charge the enemy with something ELSE, and tie it down. Which also makes sense – a dramatic rescue! 

 

Truth be told, Overrun isn't even all that necessary to this version of Fall Back – I just think it's appropriate. It's certainly no more offensive than Overwatch – yes, a unit of Ork Boyz that makes it to combat with 20 models can dish out a ton of attacks... but the number that actually hit is cut to a quarter of what it would otherwise be.

[Phubar]

I like the idea of Overrun attaks. A lot!

[LameBeard]

Overrun is a nice name for something that at least reminds me of the very old days of Warhammer. If you fled from combat the enemy got “free hacks”. I think if you voluntarily withdrew they also got “free hacks”. So I like this idea that there is a little penalty for falling back. Maybe that is the rule to tweak?

 

One of the nice things about falling back is avoiding the frustration that a unit can ‘hide’ in combat from other shooty units. So if you delay the fall-back move maybe an alternative ‘heritage’ rule we should reinstate is allowing to shoot into combat (with a risk to your own troops - yeah it’s a tough universe out there, guardsman)

[Wulf Vengis]

I just posted tis to Amicus,

 

Strategic Withdrawl: Sometimes standing and fighting is a lost cause or a unit may be better suited elsewhere on the battlefield.

At the beginning of the movement phase a unit locked in close combat can declare it is attempting a strategic withdrawl. The unit takes an unmodified leadership test using the highest leadership in that unit. If the test succeeds the unit breaks off from combat and follows the normal rules for Falling Back.

 

Cut Down Attack: However, withdrawing from close combat is dangerous and enemy combatants may take advantage of this impromptu retreat.

When making a Strategic Withdrawl, before moving any models, the enemy unit/s that were previously locked in combat with the withdrawing unit may attempt a Cut Down attack, roll a d6 and add their movement score. If the total equals or exceeds the withdrawing units movement score the members of the enemy unit attempt to cut down their opponents. Each model within 1 inch of the withdrawing unit gets one close combat attack against the withdrawing unit.

If the withdrawing unit suffers any wounds this way they must take a leadership test to perform any further actions this turn. This leadership test follows the standard rules for penalties based on morale.

 

Edit:

Strategic Withdrawl: A unit that fails to pass the leadership test for Strategic Withdrawl remainslocked in combat.

 

Edit:

Cut Down Attack: These attacks are made using their models unmodified WS rolls.

[Grimdark_Garage]

since the start of 8th ive always wanted a mechanic to make falling back more of a negative / more difficult. As OP says, a melee orientated unit spends time getting to attack and is generlaly then a sitting duck.

 

Not owning a melee focused army though, im not sure if this relaly is much of an issue. Ive watched plenty of batreps and combat units do seem to the do the business once they get into combat but they then just get mowed down.

 

Most options put forward in this and other similar topics work against the 8th edition philosphy of streamlining the game.

HOWEVER, i am a huge advocate to moving the fall back action to the charge phase UNLESS a unit has the FLY keyword.