Plasmagun vs gravgun

[MegaVolt87]

 

 

Generally all the shooting in the game should be nerfed quite a bit imo, but that's a whole different topic.

 

Sorry I disagree, if I wanted more melee I would play Age of Sigmar or Lord of the Rings strategy battle game, or go back to Ancients. 

 

 

I didn't say the game should be more melee focussed either. But again, that's a whole different topic so I'm not going into detail here.

 

 

Apologies, usually when I hear something like that its followed by more melee needed etc. 

[Panzer]

It is part of the simplicity of 8th edition ruleset.

It's not. Nothing about the 8th edition rules prevents flamers from getting an ignores cover special rule. There are far more complicated weapons in the game already.

[Brother Eleysium]

Hey all,

 

Having never used gravguns because I havent really played when they were an option for me, I dont have any models equipped with them. Ive come back to the hobby after a few years of hiatus. While browsing the codex I noticed that both plasmaguns and gravguns have their own merit vs MEQ.

 

Both plasmagun and gravgun wound and kill MEQ equally easy. Both on 3's. Both also have the same AP. The gravgun does D3 damage vs the 1 wound the plasmagun does. The plasmagun can overcharge though to wound on 2's and do 2 damage flat, for the risk of blowing up your own marines. Plasmaguns also have slightly longer range and wound things T5-T6 more easily.

 

Anyway, I wonder which guns people favour? I did keep in contact with friends who did play while I was on my hiatus and I heard that gravguns were very good and all over the place. How is that now and what place do gravguns fill? I think they had a special rule earlier but all I see now is that on 3+ saves and better they do more wounds?

Plasma hands down! From a sheer modeling factor, Plasma just looks and feels better. The higher Strength and dangerous ability to Supercharge just makes it more fun to me. We really don't play competitively at my local store, so there could be a number of reasons Grav is better. But, Plasma pretty much fits all situations. I highly recommend pairing a group of Hellblasters with a Captain with the re-rolls on 1's, it's a ton of fun.

 

From a fluff note, Plasma Guns and Cannons literally fire miniature exploding suns at your enemies.   What's cooler than that?!

[Iron Father Ferrum]

What's cooler than that?!

Crushing your enemies in their own armor like a Coke can.

[Panzer]

 

What's cooler than that?!

Crushing your enemies in their own armor like a Coke can.

 

...and to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women?

[Brother Eleysium]

 

What's cooler than that?!

Crushing your enemies in their own armor like a Coke can.

 

Haha, touche. Never thought about it like that. 

 

I still think firing miniature suns is cooler than "Magnetoing" people though. 

[Black Knight]

Do plasma gunners need extra strength sun block? This is a serious question btw, in theory the moment that plasma releases from the chamber everything around it incinerates.

 

Thinking about it as far as I know Gravity is not directional either so as soon as a Grav gun fires, everything around it should be pulled towards it...

[Karhedron]

Do plasma gunners need extra strength sun block?

However we pose our models, Space Marines really fire their plasma guns like this.

 

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_LI1lHKt-0Nk/TFiwxYDMjKI/AAAAAAAAAsk/NZke18b9-eE/s1600/DSC_0001.jpg

[ShibeKing]

Plasma for sure. I don't have any real input on the rules since I'm pretty casual about the game. I just like the look of them.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

 

It is part of the simplicity of 8th edition ruleset.

It's not. Nothing about the 8th edition rules prevents flamers from getting an ignores cover special rule. There are far more complicated weapons in the game already.

So why do you think flamers don’t ignore cover now ?

[Panzer]

 

 

It is part of the simplicity of 8th edition ruleset.

It's not. Nothing about the 8th edition rules prevents flamers from getting an ignores cover special rule. There are far more complicated weapons in the game already.

So why do you think flamers don’t ignore cover now ?

 

 

Because GW decided auto-hits is enough obviously.

[Ultramarine vet]

 

 

 

It is part of the simplicity of 8th edition ruleset.

 

It's not. Nothing about the 8th edition rules prevents flamers from getting an ignores cover special rule. There are far more complicated weapons in the game already.

So why do you think flamers don’t ignore cover now ?

 

Because GW decided auto-hits is enough obviously.

When they had templates, they were still auto hits literally speaking. I will go so far as to say flamers got worse. They took away ignores cover, and for what? D6 hits? Thats pathetic, never saw how they got buffed. Like, you can hit a character multiple times with a flamer. But honestly, who cares? Its supposed to be a horde killer. Ork boyz will have a 5+ save in cover against a flamer.

 

This is why a lot of people feel plasma is the best special weapon, and it is. And that, is because they nerfed flamers and made grav more expensive then it should be. I don't necessarily have an opinion on meltaguns, since I haven't used them much. They are a tank killer, but short range. Probably why most people will prefer a lascannon for tank hunting.

 

All in all, balancing has to be better. Because right now, these weapons absolutely are NOT.

[Panzer]

 

 

 

 

It is part of the simplicity of 8th edition ruleset.

It's not. Nothing about the 8th edition rules prevents flamers from getting an ignores cover special rule. There are far more complicated weapons in the game already.

So why do you think flamers don’t ignore cover now ?

 

Because GW decided auto-hits is enough obviously.

When they had templates, they were still auto hits literally speaking. I will go so far as to say flamers got worse. They took away ignores cover, and for what? D6 hits? Thats pathetic, never saw how they got buffed. Like, you can hit a character multiple times with a flamer. But honestly, who cares? Its supposed to be a horde killer. Ork boyz will have a 5+ save in cover against a flamer.

 

This is why a lot of people feel plasma is the best special weapon, and it is. And that, is because they nerfed flamers and made grav more expensive then it should be. I don't necessarily have an opinion on meltaguns, since I haven't used them much. They are a tank killer, but short range. Probably why most people will prefer a lascannon for tank hunting.

 

All in all, balancing has to be better. Because right now, these weapons absolutely are NOT.

 

 

You are completely missing the point of my post there.

I'm not doing any comparison between the old rules and the new rules for flamers here. There's zero judgement from my side about how good, bad or smart such a decision might have or have not been. I'm just saying that it not ignoring cover has really absolutely nothing to do with streamlining rules since there already are more complicated weapon profiles in the game. So the only logical explanation is that GW obviously didn't think it's required in the new edition where we have lots of to-hit modifier so automatically hitting should be a lot stronger than before. 

And yes they definitely got worse against every target that's not just 1-2 models, except for in overwatch where they got better (1d6 hits vs 1d3 hits in 7e)

[Darnok]

The cynic in me believes that GW made plasmaguns the "best" choice on purpose, and will "balance" them at some point in the future making them basically obsolete. Because after many players buying and building models armed with plasmaguns already, that will make a lot of people need new models. Profit!

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I don’t think the rules for weapon profiles are more complicated now, and how good is a template depends on the weapon itself.

[Panzer]

I never said weapon profiles are more complicated now. 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I'm just saying that it not ignoring cover has really absolutely nothing to do with streamlining rules since there already are more complicated weapon profiles in the game.

 

You’re confusing.

[Panzer]

Nah, you just have to work on your reading comprehension.

There are weapons != all weapons.

You read a general statement I wasn't making.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Work on your context is my friendly suggestion .

[Panzer]

My context is fine, but if you don't want to have a proper talk I suggest we end this here now.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Nothing I’ve said isn’t proper .

[Ultramarine vet]

I'm confused too, if I'm being honest. I don't know what the complication of weapons or not has to do with anything really. Flamers having ignores cover is definitely not complicated whatsoever.

[Panzer]

I'm confused too, if I'm being honest. I don't know what the complication of weapons or not has to do with anything really. Flamers having ignores cover is definitely not complicated whatsoever.

 

That's what I've been saying.

Black Blow Fly was claiming they don't ignore cover because it would've been too complicated for 8th edition which is definitely not true because 1) it wouldn't be complicated at all and 2) there are already (special addition extra for you, Black Blow Fly: SOME) weapons that already have more complicated rules in 8th edition than flamer ignoring cover would be.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I didn’t say it would be too complicated - I said it’s part of the simplicity of the 8th Edition ruleset.

[Panzer]

Which is evidently wrong when there are other weapons that are more complicated. Jesus, it's not rocket science.