Unit of the Week: Land Speeder

[Jolemai]

Welcome to part three of the Blood Angels Unit of the Week Series!

Following the release of the 8^th edition Codex, there is no better time to discuss all the units we have access to. Each week a different unit will appear, with the idea being that we discuss how best to use that model on the battlefield. Where part one will focus on the unique BA units and part two will focus on BA units that are new to this edition of the Codex, part three will discuss how to get the best use the generic units from the past that are still with us (and that many of us have in our armies still).

Note, this isn't to lament any nerfs, etc, from previous editions; the rules are as they are so try to unlock its potential for those who wish to use them all the same. Similarly, this thread is only for using the option being discussed; it matters not if you feel something is a better choice as such comments aren't constructive to the topic and shall be removed.

Without further ado, here's this week's entry:

Land Speeder

What are you thoughts here folks? How best would you use an Land Speeder?

• To compliment a list, or to build a list around? Will the beta rules affect your list(s)?
• Will you be running them solo, or in two or threes? Will you be running multiple units?
• What weapon choices do you prefer and how much does it depend on the above choices?
• Are you making use of Anti-grav Upwash?
• Are you buffing this unit? If so, how?
• Stratagems of note?

Over to you

Nb: Please note that Land Speeder Storm, Land Speeder Tempest, Javelin Land Speeder will be covered in a separate entry

[Jolemai]

Should you want your model on display here (or on another thread from the series), then submit a photo here please.

[Jolemai]

It's a slightly tougher Attack Bike with more mobility and a better weapon choice. I would say using it as such but I don't know how to use my Attack bikes It can also round out a Brigade nicely.

 

The two builds that interest me are both Index choices:

• Dual heavy bolter; I've liked this for three editions now. On it's own it's not much for three of them makes eighteen shots and once re-rolls are added... :) It's also cheap
• Dual heavy flamer; no To Hit penalties and at the start of the edition it was a decent Flyer hunter. In bulk it still is but it's a gimmick you'll only pull off once.

[Charlo]

So IMO the relative fragility and penalty to moving and firing is what makes the landspeeder less than ideal...

 

20" movement without needing to advance while you have 3 models is pretty cool though and certainly something that could be played around.

 

Rerolls are probably hard to grant these guys (too fast etc) so you want multi shot weapons; Heavy Bolters or Assault Cannons. Assault Cannons will set you back an extra 22pts per speeder, probably not worth it. As noted by Jol above the Heavy Flamers sacrifice range for autohits - something that these guys can easily make up for with a 20" move.

 

Having not really looked at them before, the double flamer option seems very strong for BA. 20" move means it's probably quite easy to get a turn one charge in many circumstances, especially on a forward screening unit. T5, 6W and a 3+ means they won't really care about overwatch either.

 

They could quite easily pave the way for a charge from something bigger, tie up a shooting unit or just block a decently sized area. 234pts for 3 of the double flamers is okay as long as you make them work - probably best not to just sacrifice.

 

Don't forget to pair them with whirlwinds either, 1CP for the data link telemetry Stratagem is pretty good to make them Auto hit as long as your land speeders are within 12" of the target!

[Panzer]

I honestly have a very hard time to find use for light vehicles in armies that have proper tanks and mobile infantry. Not just with Marines but with my T'au as well where I really struggle to find a place for my Piranhas.

Once you enter the realm of hitting on 4+ it's becoming a gamble so you need a bigger amount of shots to get at least some reliability but usually such units are too expensive to get that many shots since you have to pay multiple times for a not cheap enough chassis.

Not to mention that Marines work best when layering auras so a super mobile unit that doesn't just drop down and burst something doesn't exactly play well with the rest of most lists.

[Bonzi]

I love running three double heavy flamer units as a gimmick that opponents often don't see coming.

 

20" move, 6d6 heavy flamers. They can tear apart screens and better yet you can reliably turn 1 charge them in to lock down shooting units. They act as an excellent distraction unit and can keep up with a captain Smash and protect him from being targeted.

 

My favorite ever use of them was tying up a pair of hellverin Armigers. I got a turn 1 charge, locked them down and forced my opponent to back his Armigers out which then can't shoot, rinse repeat for two or three more turns.

 

Key targets are shooty units with weak combat abilities. Nonflyer tanks and devestator style units especially.

[Silas7]

Does this include the Land speeder tempest from FW?

[Jolemai]

Does this include the Land speeder tempest from FW?

No, as that has it's own datasheet, it will be covered at another time.

[Xenith]

So I'm returning to this, do Landsspeeders have any place in 8th ed 40k? I'm thinking not as they're still minimum what, 80pts with a heavy bolter for not very much. You can get 2x Inceptors for little more than that ith 4x the number of shots. The speeder should be 45pts or so base. 

 

I have another to build and am thinking loadouts - or shall I chop it up and have it as a 30k Speeder?

Edited April 17, 2020 by Xenith

[Panzer]

They would be a decent option if they could move&shoot those heavy weapons without penalty (like Iron Hands can do) but unfortunately they don't so not really.

[Djangomatic82]

So I'm returning to this, do Landsspeeders have any place in 8th ed 40k?

They might be useful as a full unit of 3 paired with a chaplains Recitation of Focus for +1 to hit in shooting and/or  Catechism of Fire for +1 to wound the closest enemy. 219pts for 3x Dual heavy Flamers, or 297pts for 3x TML+MM tank hunter unit is interesting. With +1 to wound, the HF unit is doing 6d6 hits, wounding <T4 on 2+, that is not terrible.

[Xenith]

I dont think they can take dual flamers outside of legends now, right? That's a great use, but now not really possible.

 

MM/HF is nice, but has to get danger close, not great for an expensive model. I'm looking at their ability to potentially tie a unit up in combat, fall back and still shoot next turn.

 

Maybe a single HF speeder could do the job?

[Jolemai]

Folks, this is a "how to use" thread, not "have a good cry/use something else" thread.

 

Keep on topic please.

[The Unseen]

I had some success with a unit of 3 typhoons and a chaplain

You can move them, use Big Guns to have them ignore the penalty, and a chaplain to give them +1 to hit and +1 to wound.

Careful placement let me send that into a Knight.

So 6 krak missiles hitting on 2s wounding on 3s, and 9 heavy bolters wounding on 4s.

If you choose a T7 vehicle instead, those kraks can wound on 2s, and turn 1 they're ap-3.

It packs a pretty good punch.

 

Also, legends stuff is still perfectly legal.

They aren't a meta breaker, but I think a Primaris heavy army could make good use of them if you don't want to run Devs either for flavor or to avoid having any 1 wound bodies.

[appiah4]

Do any of you use Land Speeders in 9E? Do you find them useful? How do you rate a single Typhoon with Multi Melta as a distant harasser/suicide melta unit?

[Jolemai]

Threads merged

 

Used the Typhon/HB confirmation so far and like most vehicles, it has benfited from being able to move and fire heavy weapons without penalty.

 

With multi-meltas anticipated to become Heavy 2 when the Codex drops, this unit will become more potent but still suffer from a lack of redundancy. Hide it until you want to use it imo.

[Xenith]

Heavy flamers becoming 12" range and HB's becoming potentially more useful for 0 increase in points will help the speeder a lot. Still unsure if the typhoon version is worth the cost of the missiles, but it can be a good insurance against hordes guaranteeing 12 shots. For the ~55pts or so could be useful to have one in the army to move fast and claim/contest objectives, which is what 9th seems to be all about. 

[Thoridon]

I started using Land Speeders at the end of 8th to good effect, using their mobility to support other units with some extra firepower where needed. Not game winning alone but they could add enough wounds to finish off a squad.

 

With 9th giving them no movement penalty and options like heavy flamers getting stronger I can see the land speeders being nice units to fill our lists and add some mobile support.

[Karhedron]

Yes, the Typhoon seems good at long range horde clearance combined with late-game objective snagging. Really well suited for Linebreaker and Engage on All Fronts secondaries.

 

The MM/HF version seems like a really good aggressive choice now. You get more bang for your buck getting into that 12" killzone. Of course it probably won't live very long but at least it will get to go out in a blaze of glory.

 

In fact the only downside I can see is that Lanspeeders give up "Bring it Down" quite easily so you could cause trouble for yourself if you field them in multiples. For this reason I would lean towards one or two Typhoons and leave Multimeltas to Attack Bike squadrons I think.

[Karhedron]

Still unsure if the typhoon version is worth the cost of the missiles, but it can be a good insurance against hordes guaranteeing 12 shots. For the ~55pts or so could be useful to have one in the army to move fast and claim/contest objectives, which is what 9th seems to be all about. 

 

Actually I don't think they get a guaranteed 12 shots. My understanding is that the "minimum 6" applies to a weapon system, not an individual dice. A Typhoon launcher is a single weapon system so against 11+ models will get 2D6 shots but with  minimum value of 6 to the total, not to each dice roll.

 

I think.....

[Metzombie]

 

Still unsure if the typhoon version is worth the cost of the missiles, but it can be a good insurance against hordes guaranteeing 12 shots. For the ~55pts or so could be useful to have one in the army to move fast and claim/contest objectives, which is what 9th seems to be all about. 

 

Actually I don't think they get a guaranteed 12 shots. My understanding is that the "minimum 6" applies to a weapon system, not an individual dice. A Typhoon launcher is a single weapon system so against 11+ models will get 2D6 shots but with  minimum value of 6 to the total, not to each dice roll.

 

I think.....

 

The rules for blast are a bit wierd. Against 6-10 modells a weapon gets minimum 3 shots but against 11+ modells you do not roll and get the full number of shots.

[Karhedron]

You are right. That is confusing. I feel a day 1 FAQ coming on.

[Charlo]

I think this is covered in the FAQ already for the core book.

 

The example they give is for a 2D3 blast weapon.

 

 

BLAST AND MULTIPLE DICE ROLLS

In addition to the errata here, we wanted to briefly add an additional example to explain how the Blast rule works when shooting a weapon that requires more than one dice roll to determine its number of attacks.  or example, if a Heavy 2D3 weapon with the Blast rule targets a unit that has 6 or more models, and you roll a double 1 to determine how many attacks are made, that result is less than 3 and so that weapon makes 3 attacks against that target. If the same weapon targets a unit that has 11 or more models, that weapon makes six attacks against that unit.

 

Essentially, you make 3 as a minimum against units of 6+ but I think still the maximum number of attacks (not just capped at 6) against 11+ targets.

[Karhedron]

I see what you are saying, the problem is they picked a bad example there. The maximum number of shots a Heavy 2D3 weapon gets is 6, regardless of whether it shoots at a unit of 11+ or rolls well.

 

A better example would be a Typhoon Missile Launcher firing frag (Heavy 2D6). If firing at a unit of 11+, is the minimum number of shots 6 or 12? It is not possible to tell from the way they have written it.

[Metzombie]

 

When a Blast weapon targets a unit that has 11 or more models, do not roll dice to randomly determine how many attacks are made - instead, make the maximum possible number of attacks.

 

Rulebook page 219