Transport up for pre-order Saturday 29th

[Feral_80]

I guess they are...okayish?

It all depends on the pts cost. The tank being heavy support certainly does not help.

Nothing to write home about so far, however.

 

The big winner here is certainly the Primaris tank.

[Burni]

 

 

I'm just going to have to figure out how to store these new tanks.

How to transport the transports? Or how to transport the transport's transports?

 

For the shooty ones, I'll probably use the servitor's stubbers in place of the side-mounted, and have them shoot straight ahead instead of to the sides. Side stubbers on the transport may have to be magnetized. Data tethers will be shortened, additional crew might stay inside the tank. Streamlines the outlines quite a bit and makes transporting the transport/tank easier.

All great advice. Will be doing similar. I use KR cases and I hope I can get two per card case.

[brother_b]

Agreed, but double shots make more sense on an elite or heavier tank. The new primaris tank will land somewhere around the 300p mark, that's more reasonable to expect such a rule. Also it does need something to differenciate it from the current Repulsor (which can take enough lascannons too) so people will buy it despite its cost.

 

Onagers in contrast are essentially Sentinels on steroids, they still class as light tanks in my book. Skitarii are mass-produced tech guard - their stuff may be of more esoteric design, but they are still expendable and not anywhere near the toughness of "heavy" armies. Same for our hovertank - the transport ferries 8ppm models around. The tank is considered fast firepower. That's neither heavy nor elite, and certainly not the Grinding Advance type of vehicle.

 

Our wallets may cry, but if points permit, these things will give us decent options for fast-moving parking lots and the mobility we have wanted for so long. At least moving 12" and firing without penalty is far beyond of what most factions get - we can't have every possible bonus, this is not Eldar. And focussing on a single missing bonus is a bit short-sighted - playing astartes too, I'd consider our amount of special rules not bad at all. Just compare let's say the Predator with the Onager, and you'll notice why astartes are a mediocre faction except for very few power combos based on bubblehammer.

 

And Ironstriders - actually, no idea. I never considered them, as they're sorta made to move, but moving and firing doesn't go well together with the penalty (unless you spend CP just so it can do what it is intended to do), and their range means they don't need to move, but then you could just go for onagers instead...sounds almost as confused as LandRaiders/Repulsors.

The leman russ is not an elite tank and our gunners are just as good as the drivers of the new primaris tanks. And don’t the Eldar get the shoot twice as well?

 

I love new models so like I said I’ll be grabbing some of these guys. My new vision is a slowly advancing blob following a faster attack force made of transports and infantry. Options are always good.

[DanPesci]

Transport seems totally fine to me. If its a bit less than a rhino points cost wise, ill take 2-3.

 

Run with stygies + shroudspalm the T6 isnt going to matter as much on the first turn. Possible stygies 9" move pregame + 12" means they will be where you want them turn 1. 

 

Sure the guns are a bit underwhelming choice wise...but 12 shots a piece ain't bad at all for horde clearance. Id certainly take that over a storm bolter.

 

The capacity of 10 is a bit annoying as it makes it harder to get characters in there, i was really hoping for 12...but I only need to fit 1 dominus really, so thats gonna just be a case of seeing what I want to drop out to make room.

 

The tank variant seems interesting, but Im already running 3 onagers in a similar role...so unless theres a way to magnetise I cant see me using them too much.

 

Need to see points!

[MajorNese]

 

The leman russ is not an elite tank and our gunners are just as good as the drivers of the new primaris tanks. And don’t the Eldar get the shoot twice as well?

For a Leman Russ it makes sense - IG pounds everything to rubble while slowly rumbling across the field. Why our cheap-and-fast tanks should receive the exact same bonus as an Astartes near-superheavy and move at the same pace as the onager to one-up the onager doesn't make much sense to me. Yes, it would be even better to have, but why is everyone focussed on this specific buff?

 

Just because one unit from a different faction got that buff doesn't mean our unit (which is wildly different in background and role) has to get the exact same. The buffs it does get - firing without penalty while moving quite fast - make sense for its role, more sense than for example LandSpeeders (which hit worse when moving, but moving is all they should do). Our faction rules will do the rest, there's comparably awesome stuff out there. Marines may fire twice with this new flying brick, but it's likely more than twice as expensive, doesn't get Chapter Tactics, and the only way to use it effectively is to hang aroung +200p buff chars. Not to mention it takes way less firepower to kill one astartes hoverbrick than two AdMech hoverbricklings.

 

And as I'll never get tired to mention, whenever there's something useful, Eldar are going to one-up that because Eldar.

[brother_b]

Elite or cannon fodder only? I’m fine with it as at least we can move and fire without penalty. I just have to find a way to make that useful. Moving my robots without making them a specialist detachment hurts. Maybe a nice fire base with robots while new tanks rush up the board. Maybe on the flanks or behind a Stygies advance.

 

Something to think about for me now is the Icarus array. Do I want that with the new tank that has no LOS needed shooting? It seems the constant 10 shots of the Icarus is nice, but that may be replaced with some gunboats. That is really appealing to me especially as the area I play is very guard heavy. No more hiding mortar teams for you!

[MajorNese]

I’m fine with it as at least we can move and fire without penalty. I just have to find a way to make that useful. Moving my robots without making them a specialist detachment hurts. Maybe a nice fire base with robots while new tanks rush up the board. Maybe on the flanks or behind a Stygies advance.

For sitting back and hardly moving, we have onagers. This one has the option to move around LoS-blocking terrain and shoot the stuff that tries to hide - onagers only move 6", and robots prefer not to move at all (or are already impossible to move).

 

Except for that, these can grab objectives where the cheap skitarii are already gunned down, without losing any firepower by advancing infantry or diverting CC-oriented dragoons. Just drive around and shoot unimpeded while getting where they need to be. Combined with the transport, these soak up firepower that would have targeted the transports, ensuring the contents get where they need to get.

 

Yeah, I'll have my uses for both versions...

[Stray]

I think Ad Mech's done alright tbh.

 

Onagers were, and still are, great. One of the games better tanks in fact. The new tank does something that the Onager doesn't in that it provides an indirect fire option. Assuming it's pointed appropriately, this is all gravy.

 

The marine fire twice bonus is more about making the most out of this new unit I suspect. The reason it was released is undoubtedly in response to the fact that there have been mutterings for some time over the fact that marines lack a really good 'tank' option. Their truly heavy firepower across the board in fact has been, arguably, somewhat lacklustre. This thing helps plug that hole for them.

 

The transport... is a transport. If it's cheap enough to make it into lists while being able to move troops around effectively, that's all that's really needed. Anything else it can do at that point is just a bonus.

[Magos Takatus]

It amuses me that the tank is faster than our fast attack options and it's a heavy support choice. The fact that it can use that speed more effectively as well is pretty funny. I don't pay much attention to the rules currently but I had to comment on that. I just need more room in my house for some transports and a few tanks. I don't really need a bed do I? It's more efficient to teach myself to sleep standing up anyway... 

[MajorNese]

The marine fire twice bonus is more about making the most out of this new unit I suspect. The reason it was released is undoubtedly in response to the fact that there have been mutterings for some time over the fact that marines lack a really good 'tank' option. Their truly heavy firepower across the board in fact has been, arguably, somewhat lacklustre. This thing helps plug that hole for them.

I'd bet it has to do with the fact that the new tank would not be bought otherwise. The regular repulsor already has 4 shots lascannon or 2 shots lascannon and the gattling. The new tank has the gattling and 2 shots lascannon or the randomized self-destruct gun. There would not be much of a difference, yet people already have as many regular repulsors as they see fit, and the new kit is (despite just changing a sprue) significantly more expensive in cash.

 

But yeah, that hardly has anything to do with our release, besides timing. Our rules are good and fitting for something that wants to move and not require half the list's points. I guess I'll start with 2 transports and 2 tanks, to make a nice moving wall of stubbers while giving me spare parts to customize.

[Charlo]

Two transports with 10 Vanguard, 3 Plasma, CC weapon Alpha and a third with 8 Vanguard, 2 Plasma, CC weapon Alpha and Dominus is a solid anti-infantry block. Anything they hit will take a fair chunk of damage from the massed shots and CC can certainly clean out the defenders. Boats can eat up overwatch and will be large enough go block off sections of the board too.

 

I feel like the Ferrumite cannon isn't sure what it wants to be. 3 shots just seems too few. It will chunk vehicle's handily but against T8 it'll struggle. I think I prefer the energy cannon. The 3-9 shots, indirect fire and flat 2D seem a little better.

[Tiger9gamer]

Two transports with 10 Vanguard, 3 Plasma, CC weapon Alpha and a third with 8 Vanguard, 2 Plasma, CC weapon Alpha and Dominus is a solid anti-infantry block. Anything they hit will take a fair chunk of damage from the massed shots and CC can certainly clean out the defenders. Boats can eat up overwatch and will be large enough go block off sections of the board too.

I feel like the Ferrumite cannon isn't sure what it wants to be. 3 shots just seems too few. It will chunk vehicle's handily but against T8 it'll struggle. I think I prefer the energy cannon. The 3-9 shots, indirect fire and flat 2D seem a little better.

Honestly the ferrumite cannon seems like a good anti rhino weapon as we can get. Or possibly something to soften up an enemy to hit with a neutron laser.

[MithrilForge]

I guess they are...okayish?

Lets compare it to our old transport shall we?!...oh right we didn't have one before   

It all depends on the pts cost. The tank being heavy support certainly does not help.

Luckily it can be made a transport too   

Nothing to write home about so far, however.

For an army that never had a transport and is also getting another heavy support choice.. I'll get you a pen and paper to start writing... 

 

The big winner here is certainly the Primaris tank....

This is the Ad-mech forum... the primaris aren't the focus here   i still think we're winning too  

 

 

Mithril

[Magos Takatus]

I would have preferred it to be a fast attack option but it's not the end of the world. The transport is a (machine) godsend and the mobility of this tank opens up new options. I hope they have a section in our eventual replacement codex explaining how these work because I have no idea what a "Ferrumite" is. The Skitarii and Cult Mechanicus books did a good job of explaining how our various weapons functioned, but the Adeptus Mechanicus codex that followed dropped that section entirely. As an owner of the 2nd edition Wargear book, I will sing the praises of a well-written armoury section in a codex.

 

Oh, and I must report an interesting time dilation anomaly. The closer we get to the 29th the slower time appears to flow. I will have to delay investigation into this phenomenon since my attention will be diverted to military logistics and reinforcement soon. :p

[MajorNese]

I feel like the Ferrumite cannon isn't sure what it wants to be. 3 shots just seems too few. It will chunk vehicle's handily but against T8 it'll struggle. I think I prefer the energy cannon. The 3-9 shots, indirect fire and flat 2D seem a little better.

I think it's exactly as intended - as a fast-moving weapon against either light to medium vehicles, or against elite infantry that you clearly need dead - maybe even snipe characters in the back after a few turns. It's not designed to tackle T8, though it still wounds those on a 4+ (which is still 3/4 of its firepower against T7), better than all those autocannons. Having used very similar fixed-shots-fixed-damage weaponry (like Thunderhawk hellstrikes), this is actually brilliant. Chances are you'll need the shooting phase reroll somewhere else, and just 2 shots coming through devolves most tanks' profile already. Top it off with the randomissile launcher to try and finish off the target or knock it down further, and I think you're good.

 

And as I've said - with data tethers, give it that nice 2+ to hit against flyers and drop them. There's usually no T8 and excessive invuls, and there's less risk of wasting the CP like an onager rolling for just one shot neutron. Randomissile should do a bit there too.

 

In contrast, I think the energy cannon's main upside is that it can fire without LoS, and reliably wounds infantry. Wounding even light vehicles requires a 5+, and AP-1 will not have that much impact on units with 3+ save and maybe cover. To reliably drop vehicles (besides Dark Eldar) it has not enough shots/wounds too bad, and against infantry we have enough choices already. Grav is a real lawnmower against primaris/TEQ, and we all know what dakkabots can do.

 

Personally, I've had less issues with infantry than tanks, given that onagers are topped at 3. I guess with hardly any IG players around, my experience may not be representative in that regard, as many consider them a hard counter for IG HWS. Thus I'll probably run with the Ferrumite, if points are not much different.

 

 

Oh, and I must report an interesting time dilation anomaly. The closer we get to the 29th the slower time appears to flow. I will have to delay investigation into this phenomenon since my attention will be diverted to military logistics and reinforcement soon.

Please report this anomaly to the nearest member of the Ordo Chronus - they will probably get back to you yesterday.

 

I'll probably wait until end of ETL to get the hoverbox boxes - no way I'll take painting time off my marines (which would give better chances to chaos), and I'll need those for Armies on Parade too. At least those will be AdMech primaris...

[DeStinyFiSh]

I have done some math to compare Ferumite to the beloved and holy Neutron Laser. Hope my calcualtions are correct:

 

Ferumite

MEQ - 4,16 Damage

Landspeeder - 4 Damage

Rhino - 3,33 Damage

Knight - 2 Damage

 

Neutron

MEQ - 4,44 Damage

Landspeeder - 4,44 Damage

Rhino - 3,55 Damage

Knight - 2,37 Damage

 

Not that much of a difference, but it helps a lot if you want more heavy firewpoer than what 3 Onagers can carry.

[MajorNese]

Actually, you kinda forgot the Randomissile (which is part of the deal), everything else looks good. I'll ignore the stubbers (as you won't shoot at knights) and multiwound for MEQ (since everything has multidamage and thereby still removes primaris models per unsaved shot):

Ferrumite + Missile:
MEQ - 2,4 Models
Landspeeder - 5,4 Damage
Rhino - 4,9 Damage
Knight - 3 Damage

Energy + Missile:
MEQ - 2,3 Models
Landspeeder - 4 Damage
Rhino - 2,9 Damage
Knight - 2,3 Damage

 

Neutron

MEQ - 1,11 Models

Landspeeder - 4,44 Damage

Rhino - 3,55 Damage

Knight - 2,37 Damage

 

So yeah...as long as you don't shoot at anything smaller than marines or outside of LoS, Ferrumite is the best choice, period. As long as the missiles shoot at the same target, it even outshines our holy neutron laser.

[DanPesci]

Actually, you kinda forgot the Randomissile (which is part of the deal), everything else looks good. I'll ignore the stubbers (as you won't shoot at knights) and multiwound for MEQ (since everything has multidamage and thereby still removes primaris models per unsaved shot):

 

Ferrumite + Missile:

MEQ - 2,4 Models

Landspeeder - 5,4 Damage

Rhino - 4,9 Damage

Knight - 3 Damage

 

Energy + Missile:

MEQ - 2,3 Models

Landspeeder - 4 Damage

Rhino - 2,9 Damage

Knight - 2,3 Damage

 

Neutron

MEQ - 1,11 Models

Landspeeder - 4,44 Damage

Rhino - 3,55 Damage

Knight - 2,37 Damage

 

So yeah...as long as you don't shoot at anything smaller than marines or outside of LoS, Ferrumite is the best choice, period. As long as the missiles shoot at the same target, it even outshines our holy neutron laser.

 

 

cheers for the comparison! Gonna be interesting once we see the points on this one. Im expecting the tank to come in higher than a neutronager TBH.

 

Faster tank with slightly better AT weaponry, vs slower onager, but onager gets 5++ (and although mathematicallly less chance...still has potential to do twice the damage)

 

Talking about potential....also realised that although the transports have 'only' 4 stubbers (which i think is fine), once theve dropped their cargo we can drive these into enemy lines and play total shenanigans with the 'autoexplode' strat. (deal with this transport and have it explode on you...or dont deal with and have it shut down units by charging them etc)

[MajorNese]

 

Faster tank with slightly better AT weaponry, vs slower onager, but onager gets 5++ (and although mathematicallly less chance...still has potential to do twice the damage)

 

Talking about potential....also realised that although the transports have 'only' 4 stubbers (which i think is fine), once theve dropped their cargo we can drive these into enemy lines and play total shenanigans with the 'autoexplode' strat. (deal with this transport and have it explode on you...or dont deal with and have it shut down units by charging them etc)

That's the deal I guess - onager is slightly better vs. targets without invul, can (and will) stay back, and is more resilient with its invul and repairs. Dakkabox can (and has to) get a bit closer, has the firepower, but less resilient and will outrun the repairing priests. With the rather similar stats - it's essentially a faster but less resilient onager, which kinda runs well with the mobility we demanded for so long. Even if it's a gunboat, it can still reach out to objectives and present an obstacle.

 

Yeah, the auto explode will be fun on the transport - losing d3 vanguard is okay, when the enemy loses d3 of something more expensive. Similar to Dark Eldar (but worse without Fly), we can probably use the transport to lock stuff in CC. With such a fast and large model (and pointy corners for easier positioning) it will be possible to charge into midfield/backfield stuff and lock them in CC. Either right after disgorging the passengers to diminish the return fire, or even to first lock up stuff and then release the content, which is free to shoot and charge whatever they want. Multiple transports with a mix of vanguard and CC guys could be rather fun - lower toughness and pick apart with stuff from the same transport, or its neighbour. The transports may not be the most resilient, but their stats are more than enough against overwatch, and will laugh at anything south of dedicated CC units.

[synthaside]

 :  Talking about potential....also realised that although the transports have 'only' 4 stubbers (which i think is fine), once theve dropped their cargo we can drive these into enemy lines and play total shenanigans with the 'autoexplode' strat. (deal with this transport and have it explode on you...or dont deal with and have it shut down units by charging them etc)

 

Ha Ha , I read that as  Autoexplode.exe ... Beep " beeep Beeeeeeeep  BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM , this will definitely be something i end up using   

 

Another interesting tactic for this is as a big road block , I've previously used dragoons for this but against hordes of orcs / nids other gribbles  especially kraken genestealers , zooming  it up the board and it really plays havoc with your opponents charge lanes ...  they can even provide mobile LOS blockers for plunky TPD's and TPE's from those scary vindicares'

if it gets " gravwash" this is fantastic for us ...  still which it had heavy phosphor rather than stubbers , its whats supposed to be our unique jam.

[Reigart]

The transports have other interesting uses. Such as objective grabbing. Back line clearing (12 shots could do some work). As mentioned, the LOS blocking is nice

[Clingy]

Do we have confirmation on ‘fly’ keyword?

 

If it doesn’t have fly what do we see the value over the drill is if it clocks in at similar points?

[MajorNese]

Do we have confirmation on ‘fly’ keyword?

 

If it doesn’t have fly what do we see the value over the drill is if it clocks in at similar points?

The drill costs 135+ points. Most current T6 transports clock in around 70-80p. There's no way this one will be more than 100 points, especially considering the cheap/free wargear.

 

Also, the new transport is quite fast - something you can't exactly say for the termite. And the latter doesn't have Canticles, so shroudpsalming lots of cheap transports is only possible with the new one. Skitarii were always good-but-expendable massed troops, termites are too expensive/big to fit that role.

[Finkmilkana]

Do we have confirmation on ‘fly’ keyword?

 

If it doesn’t have fly what do we see the value over the drill is if it clocks in at similar points?

I don’t think there is confirmation yet.

But even if it does have fly, the transport should be far cheaper than the drill. Unless it has open topped, it should be well below 100 or it will be very overpriced. Unless it’s less than 80, it probably won’t really be competetive compared to drills or other factions transports.

[Closet Skeleton]

The Dunerider has one major advantage over a rhino, its speed barely drops as it takes damage. A rhino takes 5 damage and it slows down to infantry level speeds while the Dunrider is fine until it takes another wound and then its still going 9". Then admech can spend a cp to let even a 1 wound transport go the full 12" if it needs to.

 

I can't see the transport being less than 70 points, its very similar to the goliath.

 

The leman russ is not an elite tank and our gunners are just as good as the drivers of the new primaris tanks. And don’t the Eldar get the shoot twice as well?

 

Fire Prisms get the shoot twice, Falcons don't and seem like a closer 'light tank' equivalent despite their transport capacity.