I got three Repulsors. Was that as dumb as it seems to be?

[War Angel]

Yes, absolutely worthless. I tried to be positive, but the exterminator cost 305 with all the upgrades. Meanwhile the standard repulsor pays the same price for worse guns. The only saving grace is that it has 10 space, so that will help when we get a unit worth transporting. But if the new floating box ends up being a transport that isn’t limited to Phobos, those repulsors are hot garbage. (Maybe they will get a points drop on their guns)

[Lemondish]

Yes, absolutely worthless. I tried to be positive, but the exterminator cost 305 with all the upgrades. Meanwhile the standard repulsor pays the same price for worse guns. The only saving grace is that it has 10 space, so that will help when we get a unit worth transporting. But if the new floating box ends up being a transport that isn’t limited to Phobos, those repulsors are hot garbage. (Maybe they will get a points drop on their guns)

The hyperbole looks bad on you.

 

The Repulsor wants to move its maximum distance every turn, whereas an Executioner's rules encourages it to be relatively static to maximize its contribution. If you move it, it ends up being pretty much a more expensive Repulsor.

 

For those that have been using Repulsors to dominate the midfield, provide close fire support to your obsec units, and maximize board control, you'll find the Executioner to be weaker at this role. For those that were using Repulsors as AV platforms, you'll find the Executioner to be better at this role.

[War Angel]

Repulsor exterminator with heavy laser destroyer, and no additional upgrades, 293 points.

 

Regular repulsor with twin linked lascannon, cost 279. It’s 17 points cheaper, the same cost as the twin heavy Bolter that the exterminator gets.

 

The repulsor has krakstorm instead of the fragstorm, so that’s one thing it has as an advantage, but the executioner comes with a much better anti air gun, and instead of replacing the Icarus stubber for the rocket pod, it can have both. But that’s not the point.

 

For 17 more points, you get more guns, and while you may try to say it can’t move as fast, it can. It can move the same speed and fire the same or more shots. Better shots. Sure, you can pay 10 more points for the las talon, and then the executioner would need to sit still to fire as many high strength shots, but it would also still have the heavy onslaught Gatling cannon, while the repulsor would not.

 

So, what’s the final score? Speeds the same, executioner wins on fire power, and the repulsor has 4 more bodies in it. I just can’t see that trade off being worth it.

 

Now, if you run the repulsor with the base guns, it’s only 256. It doesn’t have any of the strength 9 shots, but it also can’t roll a 1 for damage, just like the exterminator.

 

So maybe the repulsor isn’t hot garbage, but it’s lasers are over priced. Hopefully they will address this.

 

Edit: for further proof, heavy laser destroyer, 40 points. Las talon, 40 points. Twin las cannon, 40 points. Each is the same cost and serves the same role and fires the same number of shots. But one has a better range, higher strength, and can’t deal less than three damage.

[Dracos]

In response to your edit: I hope that is an indication the other las weaponsnare going to go down (5pts?) in the new codex :)

[Lemondish]

Repulsor exterminator with heavy laser destroyer, and no additional upgrades, 293 points.

 

Regular repulsor with twin linked lascannon, cost 279. It’s 17 points cheaper, the same cost as the twin heavy Bolter that the exterminator gets.

 

The repulsor has krakstorm instead of the fragstorm, so that’s one thing it has as an advantage, but the executioner comes with a much better anti air gun, and instead of replacing the Icarus stubber for the rocket pod, it can have both. But that’s not the point.

 

For 17 more points, you get more guns, and while you may try to say it can’t move as fast, it can. It can move the same speed and fire the same or more shots. Better shots. Sure, you can pay 10 more points for the las talon, and then the executioner would need to sit still to fire as many high strength shots, but it would also still have the heavy onslaught Gatling cannon, while the repulsor would not.

 

So, what’s the final score? Speeds the same, executioner wins on fire power, and the repulsor has 4 more bodies in it. I just can’t see that trade off being worth it.

 

Now, if you run the repulsor with the base guns, it’s only 256. It doesn’t have any of the strength 9 shots, but it also can’t roll a 1 for damage, just like the exterminator.

 

So maybe the repulsor isn’t hot garbage, but it’s lasers are over priced. Hopefully they will address this.

 

Edit: for further proof, heavy laser destroyer, 40 points. Las talon, 40 points. Twin las cannon, 40 points. Each is the same cost and serves the same role and fires the same number of shots. But one has a better range, higher strength, and can’t deal less than three damage.

 

285 for a Repulsor with HOG/OG/TLC

 

So two las cannon shots, 18 heavy bolter equivalent shots, and roughly the same 'defensive' style low str dakka. In this config, the only thing the HLD does better is those two las cannon shots. Unless it stays put. 

 

The Repulsor carries 10 and doesn't need to move slowly to do its job (a fire support transport). If you want to use the Executioner in a suboptimal method, that's fine - it'll match up well with the Repulsor while doing the transport job less capably. But if you want it to do its job (MBT), then it sacrifices mobility to do it right. That cannot be ignored even if you can ignore the ability midgame. If you want to add mobility to your obsec units, or protection and quick midfield delivery for Hellblasters or Aggressors, you'd be sacrificing what the Executioner does best by trying to use it like a Repulsor. Just pick a Repulsor if you want fire support and transportation as a primary piece, or an Executioner if you want AV. 

 

As far as your edit goes, it doesn't matter one bit what the cost is. That's not how this works. You can only compare the price of weapons if you have a choice between them. Otherwise it's meaningless. Only this unit uses the heavy laser destroyer, so its cost is essentially irrelevant.

[War Angel]

And it doesn’t matter that it needs to stay still to fire more effectively. It still fires more effectively then the repulsor when moving at the same speed. If you don’t need the mobility, you get extra shots.

 

It still has transport capacity. It has the same movement. It has more guns.

[Lemondish]

And it doesn’t matter that it needs to stay still to fire more effectively. It still fires more effectively then the repulsor when moving at the same speed. If you don’t need the mobility, you get extra shots.

 

It still has transport capacity. It has the same movement. It has more guns.

It actually does matter, because why pay the points for a platform that can act as an MBT but not use it as one?

 

It fires very minimally better with the HLD one the move at a premium and a tad worse with the plasma at the same points cost while carrying less. Why force a unit to do a job it isn't meant for when there's a perfect fit available for the same points cost?

 

That question goes both ways.

[Silas7]

I feel once that Rhino2.0 is reviled the choice will be much more clear. Then again Rhino2.0 could have no cargo space and be something like a Hellhound for Primaris. who knows?

 

Has anyone seen what a predator turret looks like on a repulsor?

[War Angel]

The HLD is better at the same points cost. Marginally or otherwise. And if I don’t move it full distance it becomes significantly better. It can still be a MBT and move. Don’t say it can’t keep up when for the same points cost it can keep up and shoot more/better shots. How many turns do you even need to move full speed? For the rest of your army to keep up (captain/LT buff?) you can’t even go the full 10 anyway.

 

How often are you putting a full 10 man into a repulsor? 6 is good enough.

[Panzer]

I'm with Lemondish there. They have different roles. If you just want the dakka then the Executioner is better but if you want a T8 model that pushes into the middle of the board together with the rest of your army while giving strong fire support then the regular Repulsor is better because you really don't want the Executioner to move more than 5" ever and it can't protect as many of your infantry.

[War Angel]

But it can. You guys keep saying that like it can’t push to the center of the board. It can make that move. One turn of not getting to fire the big gun twice, and it will still have more shots than the more expensive repulsor.

[Blindhamster]

I use my repulsor to transport 10 man squads regularly. So it has a purpose there. But with the overall quality of shooting of the executioner, the repulsor does feel overpriced still (taking all the upgrades, he repulsor is more expensive for a lot less shots and considerably lower quality shots... the executioner has fewer lascannon equivalent shots if it moves fast but it has a ridiculous amount more strength 5 AP-1 shots).

 

I'd like to see a small price drop on the repulsor, but doubt it'll happen.

[Panzer]

But it can. You guys keep saying that like it can’t push to the center of the board. It can make that move. One turn of not getting to fire the big gun twice, and it will still have more shots than the more expensive repulsor.

 

Except that you don't move just once the 10". You move it twice or thrice. Also our argument isn't just that. It's the combination of transporting 10 on top of moving 10" on top of being good firesupport.

[War Angel]

Moving 10 it still provides better fire support, so all it’s missing is 4 bodies. I’m not changing your mind and your not changing mine, so let me change my stance so maybe you can see what my issue is.

 

I bought and built my repulsor before The exterminator was announced. I built it to be the main battle tank, because I need long range high strength in my army, the transport is just utility, and I don’t have 10 man squads. The exterminator does everything I need, and it’s cheaper. Now I would love to be able to use both, but if I’m paying more points to use the lascannons I put on the repulsor, then I might as well put the exterminator turret on it.

 

Do you need your repulsors moving 10 a turn with lascannons?

[SkimaskMohawk]

I'm just going to have 3 repulsors and 2 executioners and call it a day. Have the best of both. Neonmole seems to place very highly with his 1750 list that uses redemptors to be ancillary firepower options, so cutting them for executioners at 2000 should go pretty well imo.

[Lemondish]

How many turns do you even need to move full speed? For the rest of your army to keep up (captain/LT buff?)

The most important ones. Which, coincidentally, is also when you want your MBT to be outputting its maximum potential firepower.

 

Because you may not have a chance to fire again, or move again, or you'll be less efficient at either because you're bracketed. Take every opportunity you have as early as you can for an army like marines. We do not have the numbers to fight a war of attrition. Hit hard, hit fast, and make certain you're maxing out your efficiency at the same time. 

 

I'm not saying you can't use an Executioner as your primary transport. It'll work real well. I'm not even saying you can't use your Repulsor as AV, because it can do the job (and has been) for quite a little while now. But if you're maximizing what each does best (and you should), then you would be better off using them at the role they're best at. That means there's still a place for the Repulsor, especially alongside an Executioner. 

 

Moving 10 it still provides better fire support, so all it’s missing is 4 bodies. I’m not changing your mind and your not changing mine, so let me change my stance so maybe you can see what my issue is.

 

I bought and built my repulsor before The exterminator was announced. I built it to be the main battle tank, because I need long range high strength in my army, the transport is just utility, and I don’t have 10 man squads. The exterminator does everything I need, and it’s cheaper. Now I would love to be able to use both, but if I’m paying more points to use the lascannons I put on the repulsor, then I might as well put the exterminator turret on it.

 

Do you need your repulsors moving 10 a turn with lascannons?

 

In your case, no, the Repulsor isn't the most efficient way to achieve the role you need filled. Doesn't mean there isn't a job where it absolutely is the most efficient at it, which is really all we're saying. That job is specifically being a mobile fire support platform with Fly that drops 10 models into the midfield.

 

But your last question kind of highlights something key. Twin lascannons on Repulsors were seen as a near requirement if you were running the unit simply because it was the only source of long range AV for Primaris-only forces. Many would actually feel the same about the lastalon, despite its range issues. Hellblasters could only do so much with their limited range, so the twin las became the main source of ranged AV if you brought Repulsors. 

 

That doesn't need to be true any longer thanks to the Executioner.

 

 

[Lemondish]

I use my repulsor to transport 10 man squads regularly. So it has a purpose there. But with the overall quality of shooting of the executioner, the repulsor does feel overpriced still (taking all the upgrades, he repulsor is more expensive for a lot less shots and considerably lower quality shots... the executioner has fewer lascannon equivalent shots if it moves fast but it has a ridiculous amount more strength 5 AP-1 shots).

 

I'd like to see a small price drop on the repulsor, but doubt it'll happen.

 

It actually does have the same number str 5 AP -1 shots - check out the 285 point build I was referring to earlier: Heavy Onslaught, Onslaught, and twin las. Two lascannon shots, 18 heavy bolter shots, and all the extra bolter equivalent shooting. 

[Lemondish]

Double post, apologies.  

[Panzer]

Moving 10 it still provides better fire support, so all it’s missing is 4 bodies. I’m not changing your mind and your not changing mine, so let me change my stance so maybe you can see what my issue is.

 

I bought and built my repulsor before The exterminator was announced. I built it to be the main battle tank, because I need long range high strength in my army, the transport is just utility, and I don’t have 10 man squads. The exterminator does everything I need, and it’s cheaper. Now I would love to be able to use both, but if I’m paying more points to use the lascannons I put on the repulsor, then I might as well put the exterminator turret on it.

 

Do you need your repulsors moving 10 a turn with lascannons?

You do know that you can put two 5 man squads in a transport with capacity of 10, right? No need for 10 man squads.

 

If I translate your posts right then the only reason why you think the regular Repulsor is inferior to the Executioner is because you actually only want what the Executioner has to offer and don't care for what the regular Repulsor offers. That's perfectly fine and everything but it's just a your very subjective standpoint because it fills your personal needs, not the objective truth. Fact is that the Repulsor can do things the Executioner can't and as you hopefully noticed by now there are people who utilize those things regularly and for those people the regular Repulsor in fact has still a place in their lists the Executioner simply can't fill no matter how great its firepower is for the points.

 

Yes I do need my Repulsor to move 10" a turn even with Lascannons. I regularly push it close to my opponents deployment zone even.

[Panzer]

 

But your last question kind of highlights something key. Twin lascannons on Repulsors were seen as a near requirement if you were running the unit simply because it was the only source of long range AV for Primaris-only forces. Many would actually feel the same about the lastalon, despite its range issues. Hellblasters could only do so much with their limited range, so the twin las became the main source of ranged AV if you brought Repulsors. 

 

That doesn't need to be true any longer thanks to the Executioner.

 

 

Yeah that's a very important point. With the Executioner, soon Lasfusil Eliminators and also the Suppressors there's no need for the regular Repulsor to carry all the anti-tank weight on its back. In fact many tournament players already switched to a mixed loadout even before Shadowspear got released.

[War Angel]

My repulsor has las, and I want it to still be useful on the battlefield without having to feel like I paid more points and got weaker guns.

[Blindhamster]

Most people are keeping the lascannons but getting rid of the Las talon I think

[Panzer]

My repulsor has las, and I want it to still be useful on the battlefield without having to feel like I paid more points and got weaker guns.

 

Then you only have two options, really.

Either adjust and play to the strengths of the regular Repulsor, or be stubborn with how you want to use it and accept that it's simply not the top choice for that playstyle anymore. Latter doesn't mean it's useless though. People tend to forget that units can be useful even if they aren't the absolute non plus ultra the Codex has to offer.

That's something we constantly have to face with an ever expanding model range and with changing rules across editions (and now even regularly within the same edition). Hence why one should always magnetize their models if the loadout choice is purely meta dependent (you don't have that problem if you build your models for rule of cool or thematic reasons).

[Captain Idaho]

The problem with the strength of the Repulsor is it's a gun boat. Which the Executioner does better.

 

There might be anecdotal evidence from folk here (which I don't doubt of course) but every competitive game involving Repulsors has them as gun boats that forget they're a transport after deployment.

[Blindhamster]

The problem with the strength of the Repulsor is it's a gun boat. Which the Executioner does better.

 

There might be anecdotal evidence from folk here (which I don't doubt of course) but every competitive game involving Repulsors has them as gun boats that forget they're a transport after deployment.

 

Check Neonmoles list over in BA forum, he uses 3 in competitive gaming. He runs them as transports as much as gun boats, and doesn't use the talons.

 

That being said, arguably his list would work just as well with 3 executioners because he runs 5 man squads+characters lol.