Bad experience with Forge World Customer Service

[Felix Antipodes]

 

 

Sorry to hear about your trouble. They always had great CS anytime my friends or I had issues. It's why ive never really had issue ordering from them.

It really is a warning though for companies as even just reading this one account I feel less certain about a large purchase i was planning to make this year.

I hope they come to their senses.

 

At least their customer service has been (mostly) praised in the last years, but I know for sure I'll never order a large mechanical sculpt from them (like a vehicle, flyer, etc.), because I've read too many horror stories about warped walls and shifted molds which make a vehicle completely useless.

How people can buy Titans from them for the money is beyond me.

 

Yea thats what i mean. I'm planning to do a bucket list Thunderhawk this winter but am already nervous about getting a bad part.

This is my fear as well as I'm also contemplating a Thunderhawk. I just wish FW would bite the bullet and switch to plastic across the line now that GW seems to be investing in more equipment.

[Kastor Krieg]

 

I'm gonna suggest getting a google number for a bit, using that to call them up and see if you can get someone who is a bit more understanding. I do wonder though if they're being weird and titchy because there's a 3rd party vendor involved, and they're being defensive because they assume some sort of chicanery is going on.

 

I mean lets be honest, the only thing FW has over aftermarket boutiques or eastern hemisphere recasters is customer service.

This. This. This.

 

It's because there's a 3rd party vendor involved. As soon as there's a 3rd party vendor, Forge World is looking at it from an angle of "is this legit?" from what I've seen. Hell, I've seen someone basically get blacklisted by Forge World because he bought a Magnus the Red model from someone, the other guy lost the instructions, and he continually asked Forge World for instructions for it (dude even gave Forge World the order number from the guy he bought it from).

 

I mean, I've had nothing but good things when it comes to their customer service, but then again, I've bought everything directly from them, without a 3rd party involved (after the first debacle involving an order with FW and a 3rd party, I'm not doing that again).

 

So, basically, you're telling me that I'm a third rate customer and treated as such because I've paid full price but got a bulk order with an FLGS that does these twice a month to get free shipment and gets them a TON of our money this way (because their shipment costs are prohibitive and otherwise we would not have ordered)? The FLGS is a regular GW vendor and trader. There's nothing "iffy" about the whole thing.

 

 

 

 

I looked at the pictures and honestly, it doesn't seem that bad to me. I don't see anything on the flesh that couldn't be easily scraped, filed, or sanded to blend it away into the surrounding area.

Now that there's a link and I looked at it as well I have to agree. Doesn't look that unusual to me so I can understand why FW gave that response.

 

Okay, now that I looked at it..... That's almost the exact same mould line I had on my Blood Bowl Mutated Chaos Minotaur. I cleaned it up without any problems.

 

I looked at the pictures and honestly, it doesn't seem that bad to me. I don't see anything on the flesh that couldn't be easily scraped, filed, or sanded to blend it away into the surrounding area. 

 

 

Yeah, no. I have it in my hands and it's not something I can clean up. I can't shoot you a 3D photo of it, it's shifted to the point where armour edges have "notches" in them where there should be a straight line. There's resin voids in the ankle and loincloth areas. I can deal with a mold line, I can't deal with mold shift which when scraped off to the same turns a convex (bulging) muscle into a flat "hilltop" instead.

 

I can't be expected to shave off 1-2 mm off sculpted detail and be okay with it.

[Bryan Blaire]

I'd just return it for a refund then, as it doesn't sound like there's going to be a satisfactory conclusion. Try again later. It stinks bad that it happened, but it really doesn't seem like there is any intention on their side to do anything further.

[War Angel]

Maybe try taking a picture that shows where the issue spots are? Your current pictures seem to be easy.

[armarnis]

The pics show no *massive* mould slip, maybe try to take a few better ones and email them again?

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

I can only go by what I saw in the pictures, and it doesn't look as bad as you made it out to be. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Panzer]

I can only go by what I saw in the pictures, and it doesn't look as bad as you made it out to be. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Same as the FW guy who got the pictures, really.

[Halandaar]

Yeah, no. I have it in my hands and it's not something I can clean up. I can't shoot you a 3D photo of it, it's shifted to the point where armour edges have "notches" in them where there should be a straight line. There's resin voids in the ankle and loincloth areas.

 

Okay, but we don't have it in-hand and can only go from the images you've provided, and the consensus based on those images seems to be "looks manageable to me". It's therefore not too surprising that FW reacted that way, because they are looking at the same images.

 

I guess all you can do is try to get better photos (or a short video if rotating it shows the issues in a way stills don't) and go back with those, and see if that changes things, and if it doesn't, chalk it up as a loss to FW's customer service and send it back for a refund.

[Kastor Krieg]

Sending it back from Poland will cost me half the value of the item, will introduce a huge delay and leaves me without a model. That's not really satisfactory.

I'm not really happy with the fact that with limited information (you took into account just the images, not my description) neither you or the FW Customer Service are keen to believe the customer who has the item in hand that the issue is more severe than "just a mold line".

There's no way I can shoot a 3D image to show you how the two halves of the model have been displaced against one another. On a single picture I can only show the placement and depth of the "ridge". You're experienced modellers, you've seen such cases in resin casting, you know well what I'm talking about. You also know well about FW issues with casting quality. I'm not sure why the consensus has suddenly switched from "you've been wronged" to siding with FW in the space of 3-4 posts chiming off one another.

Edited June 28, 2019 by Reclusiarch Krieg

[Panzer]

Because there are probably plenty people who try to rip off FW by saying something is worse than it is just to get some free resin. You can say all you want but if you can't deliver any proof then it's not on FW to just believe you.

Also it may seem like the consensus has switched, but in reality the early consensus was just based on your description because there was no link in your post while now we have something to actually work with apart of your words. If we had the link right from the beginning, then the consensus would've been as it is now.

[Halandaar]

I'm not really happy with the fact that with limited information (you took into account just the images, not my description) neither you or the FW Customer Service are keen to believe the customer who has the item in hand that the issue is more severe than "just a mold line".

 

Hey, I didn't say I didn't believe you, just that the evidence you've provided doesn't quite support the description. By placing the emphasis on the description and referencing things like "keenness to believe", you are essentially asking them to take your word for it.

 

Bear in mind that FW probably get plenty of people trying to get themselves some free "extra" models based on minimal issues and they do have to be vigilant against that. Add in the point about a third party being involved which was made above, and I can personally understand why they would be apprehensive to send out a replacement.

 

I'm not saying they couldn't have handled it better, they absolutely could have, but I don't think they are automatically in the wrong for making that decision either. Reiterating my previous post, maybe see about doing a short gif of you rotating the model to highlight the flaws and go back to them with that to see if it changes anything.

[War Angel]

No ones said they don’t believe you. All were saying is your picture doesn’t convey the same message your giving us. Maybe a picture showing these areas where resin didn’t fill in on the leg?

[Kastor Krieg]

in reality the early consensus was just based on your description because there was no link in your post while now we have something to actually work with apart of your words. If we had the link right from the beginning, then the consensus would've been as it is now.

That's not true, the link was there from the start. In the beginning I didn't notice that it didn't get processed into an URL link, it was just text, so I've corrected that. But it was there from the get go.

 

Anyway, I've since worked a bit on the model and primed it. The void is still visible, unfortunately, despite I've tried to fill it. There was a frayed edge that I didn't manage to remove because it was in a recess and hard to get to. It's going to be a problem because I wanted to use washes / contrast on the mini and it will show. Maybe I can pretend it's fur, eh.

 

[Panzer]

 

in reality the early consensus was just based on your description because there was no link in your post while now we have something to actually work with apart of your words. If we had the link right from the beginning, then the consensus would've been as it is now.

That's not true, the link was there from the start. In the beginning I didn't notice that it didn't get processed into an URL link, it was just text, so I've corrected that. But it was there from the get go.

 

Anyway, I've since worked a bit on the model and primed it. The void is still visible, unfortunately, despite I've tried to fill it. There was a frayed edge that I didn't manage to remove because it was in a recess and hard to get to. It's going to be a problem because I wanted to use washes / contrast on the mini and it will show. Maybe I can pretend it's fur, eh.

 

 

 

Well apparently several people, me included, didn't see the link then. So my point still holds.

 

About the pic, it still doesn't look that bad to me. I've had worse plastic models already even.

[NiftyVT]

Maybe I have just been lucky but everything I have gotten from FW has been in good shape. Only thing in really had to fix was slightly warped spears for my hoplites. And assembling tech thrills took forever because in order to get a nice arm fit I had to heat up the arms. And for my Acheron and Castigator all I needed to do was some basic mold line removal and some tiny air bubble filling which is all standard ops for resin. My Triaros and Thanatarjust  had some hard to get spots that made me pick up some micro chisels. 

 

From the pictures the mold line doesn't look that bad. The one under the armpit does look like it would be a pain but all you need is a round micro chisel and you can easily clean that line up. 

 

My one piece of advice for working with resin is to pick-up a variety of micro chisels. They will make your life so much better!

[Biscuittzz]

Yea, after seeing the linked images it honestly doesn't look too bad. I wouldn't say it's an average mold line/slippage as it's a bit more severe than the usual fare when these things happen but to get the pitch forks and torches out over this is crazy. Sharp knife, file and sanding will clean up at least 90% of what I can see in the images. You can ask yourself should you have to do so much extracurricular work on a model you pay so much for? No, perhaps not, but this is Forgeworld and anyone worth their salt knows what buying from FW entails regarding working with resin. You can argue that for the premium paid  you shouldn't have to but it is what it is.

 

Now, I can understand that if this is a commission piece that doing the above work may not be good enough as it will be a centrepiece model etc but that's an issue between the customer and artist not FW. 

 

And for those all too willing to turn this into a FW bashing thread, I cannot see where this fear of getting larger tanks or models comes from. From my experience smaller models have always had these mold line issues or warpages and it actually gets better once the resin gets blockier and bigger in tanks. (Not withstanding the absolutely horrendous Fire Raptor/Storm Eagle, but they're a special case).

 

I've just received my Glaive in the post and I can say that there is not a single slippage on the entire kit. Only problem would be the usual stuff that needs heat bending but alas that's the resin life, not a FW problem.

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

Having worked with a large amount of resin from FW and non-40k products from other companies, I've racked up a good amount of experience with fixing the inevitable issues. Resin casts will never be perfect simply because of the qualities of the material and everyone should expect some amount of clean up and filling; it's a necessary evil that allows companies to mold and cast products that would be prohibitively expensive to do with with injection molded plastic. 

 

Having said that, I've also had to return a number of resin items over the years due to unacceptable flaws (4 different times with FW), and from my experience and the pictures you put up I don't see this as one of those instances. No one is saying you're lying, but getting upset based on the "limited information" you provided, we can't see the issues in the photos matching your description. More pictures might have helped your case in that regard. 

 

To illustrate my thoughts on this, I'll go through the steps I would take to fix the issues based on your photos. 

 

 

1) This mold line on the side can be completely removed with no harm at all to the detail. Use a blunt mold line removing tool like the one GW charges  way too much money (other companies make them for a lot less money!). If you trust yourself enough with a sharp hobby knife to not gouge the resin around the mold line, hold it perpendicular to the surface and gently scrape from the arm pit to the crease in the side, then do the same from the crease in the side to the belt.

 

Don't try to do the entire line in a single go because the shifting angle can cause you to gouge the resin. It's entirely possible to completely remove that line without needing any sanding or filing, but if not, make sure you're following the curve of the model with the file or sandpaper and not just sawing it back and forth in a straight line. 

 

2) I know this isn't a casting issue, but a user issue. You cut the vent sprue way too close to the model with some clippers. Never, ever clip these things right on top of the model, regardless of the material it's made from. The problem now is that the gouge dips below the surface of the belt so you'll have to remove even more material in the surrounding area to level it out or use something to fill it in other than greenstuff (see below).

 

I'd suggest clipping these things where I put the red line and then using a sharp hobby knife to remove it from the model. Use a round file or some rolled up sandpaper to smooth the area afterward. 

 

3) This line on the side of his thigh looks bad, but because it's on a smooth area devoid of detail, it's easily fixable and you did a decent job based on the second picture. If this were on a different model over a highly detailed area then a mold slip of that size would be a different story entirely and grounds for replacement in my opinion. It's still possible to go back and clean up that little line in the corner of his knee. 

 

4) Similar to 1 and 3, this is another line that's entirely fixable thanks to the area having little detail and you did a good job of it on the calf, but there's still some rough spots on the hoof that I will comment on below. 

 

 

1) Same story here as the other side. 

 

2) Even though this now crosses onto the armor, I don't see any serious issue with repairing it, due again to the area being devoid of detail. 

 

3) You lucked out on the chaos icon scar as the slippage seems to practically disappear and it could have been really distorted. 

 

 

1) As mentioned above, that can be cleaned up and I'd suggest some rounded files to get the job done. 

 

2) You said you tried to fill the area in the hollow of the leg, but what did you use? If it was greenstuff, just don't do it because it's a terrible gap filler. I'd suggest Perfect Plastic Putty for your gap filling needs in the future because it has no harsh chemical odor, dries quickly, feathers amazingly well (meaning you can seamlessly blend it into the surrounding area of the model with no "lip" showing which is something you can't do with greenstuff), and since it's water soluble it can easily be removed from any tools, your hands, or even the model itself if you don't like the repair. 

 

3) Use the edge of a hobby knife or a file with a thin edge to remove that line in the crease between the ankle and hoof. 

 

4) For this line, use some files to take the mold line down to the level of the surrounding area and then you can use a small round file or some folded sandpaper to carefully widen the line and soften its sharp edges so it looks more like the similar texture lines on the hoof. 

[Xwingt65]

Going from what I can see in photos, it looks like standard fare for resin models to me.

[Kilofix]

Odd, they’ve always been good to me to the point of shipping me missing parts just on my word.

[Kastor Krieg]

I used Tamiya white putty as the filler, but it seems to have shrunk a bit which I didn't realize before adding the primer and only zenithal light showed that.

[Subtleknife]

Going off the photos it looks like a normal line to me. Fairly easy to remove and fix. I dont see what the OP is describing personally.

[rendingon1+]

Yeah, nothing <15 min with modeling file and knife wouldn't fix.

[Kastor Krieg]

I really can't tell if you guys aren't paying attention or what. It's not about the LINE even though it was deeper than it looked on the pics - and there still was the ankle void. It's about SHIFTED HALVES OF A MOULD.

Quick question - if you cast a perfectly round ball in two identical halves, glue it together badly and the hemispheres are just so slightly misaligned, then decide "hey, that's JUST A LINE, let's scrape it off!", is what you left with a round ball?

That's the case. The volumes were affected because of the mould shift. It's a crap casting and they refused to take responsibility for it.

[Panzer]

And I really can't tell if you are paying attention or not.

ONE CAN'T SEE the kind of damage you are describing on the pictures you are providing and obviously FW is NOT going to trust you just like that for one reason or another.

So either you provide proper proof of your claim, or you are :cuss out of luck.

Edited July 8, 2019 by sfPanzer

[Dosjetka]

=][= I doubt there's much else to say here that hasn't already been said. Unfortunately this isn't an issue that we, the B&C community, can resolve. The best people can do is take note of what has transpired and keep it in mind when they next interact with Forge World.

In the meantime... =][=

Edited July 8, 2019 by Chaplain Dosjetka