Astartes Age of Ascension

[b1soul]

So according to the latest fluff, what is the typical age of an Astartes recruit?

 

I remember in Descent of Angels (or was it Fallen Angels), it's implied the recruits are around six or seven years old.

 

However, that seems ridiculously young. If I am not mistaken, the old guard of the Space Wolves and White Scars braved the ascension process as full adults. I'm not sure what's the norm in the current lore.

 

Do you guys recall how old was Dante when he ascended? How about Torghun and Shiban? I recall in Prospero Burns, one of the adult warriors accompanying Hawser is successfully turned into an Astartes.

[Ryltar Thamior]

So according to the latest fluff, what is the typical age of an Astartes recruit?

 

I remember in Descent of Angels (or was it Fallen Angels), it's implied the recruits are around six or seven years old.

 

However, that seems ridiculously young. If I am not mistaken, the old guard of the Space Wolves and White Scars braved the ascension process as full adults. I'm not sure what's the norm in the current lore.

 

Do you guys recall how old was Dante when he ascended? How about Torghun and Shiban? I recall in Prospero Burns, one of the adult warriors accompanying Hawser is successfully turned into an Astartes.

It's worth noting that the VIth , in days of yore, having recruits from full-grown men ... was not ideal and lead to a rather significant and messy rejection rate; which is not to say that it's outright impossible; only that it's not ideal. I would further add that the stuff going on around i) the Wolves at the outset of the Legion's reunification with its Lord, and ii) the Crusade era happenings - would presumably be partially the result of the enhanced understanding of the processes involved as compared to the latter eras of the Imperium. I also personally suspect that the Space Wolves do a *lot* of unconventional stuff in this regard - both in terms of a) their Canis Helix and such [which may imply that native Fenrisians are different to more 'regular' humans when it comes to this sort of thing anyway], b) the way in which their Thralls/Karls are depicted as compared to those of other chapters [they seem a lot more ... 'with-it', 'together', and actually somewhat superhuman, as compared to mere washouts and twisted failures]

 

It does make logical biogenic [and, indeed, psychological] sense for taking recruits at such a very young age - as it's well before puberty has begun to wreak its own changes upon an aspirant's body and mind (the extra mutability of neuroplasticity and a body pre-primed for hormonal alterations and enhanced growth at that age would presumably be intentionally taken advantage of by the implantation process), and means there's far less chance of psychological tethers to their previous life and culture.

 

Other chapters may have processes that make the whole thing easier - like the Blood Angels with their sarcophagus approach. 

 

Although straight-up .. while I definitely approve of the idea of taking recruits *younger* , it makes some chapters' and legions' recruitment processes rather more ridiculous - e.g. the Iron Hands demanding that potential aspirants make it all the way across a very hostile environment to petition for entry. 

[Vykes]

Some days I wonder about that fine line between astartes and pseudo-astartes that were allowed into the legion/chapters, or appeared similar enough to legionnaires.  

 

I'd still hazard a guess that the vast majority of aspirants and recruits are pre-pubescent and typically in that young range between 10-13, but a lot of it is very much on the implied side.  Scars had the training masters of the 16th legion working on young teens, and I seem to recall Loken saying that he was a youth in the scout corps in Vengeful Spirit.  Likewise, yeah the Dark Angels with the boys standing in the snow does make it sound like they were young enough (Why do I want to say the age of like 9 was mentioned for them earlier, though?)  and later on I seem to recall the Blood Angels Baal-born recruits are all kinda like that too, just more sickly and wasted. 

 

But then we have psuedo-astartes, the likes of Kor Phaeron and Luther stick out most noticeably in that they are waaaay over the typical age of astartes aspirants in legion terms.  But they were still chemically/alchemically altered and inducted into the legion under special enough circumstance though others recognize them as being 'legion' but not exactly pure astartes.  Then you have adults who were genhanced to look and act like astartes, like Maggard. 

 

Of course this is all just 'legion' era 30K stuff and they were able to pick from what they wanted and had the facilities and technology to potentially circumvent standard procedures for them.   Then there's just some groups like Space Wolves who ignore most of the well established procedures, precedents, and protocols. 

[Sete]

If anything in the Black Templar comic, Damnation Crusade, the aspirants are young adults at least.

Edited June 28, 2019 by Sete

[Slasher956]

Most of the societies Astartes recruit from are fedual / earlier epochs... in that sort of time frame 15 year olds where treated as Adults, is some societies even younger.

 

Most of the fluff has the Astartes recruitment at the same sort of age as the Societies rights of passage... so anywhere from old infants to young pubescent depending on planet in question.

[Marshal Reinhard]

There's always been a bit of disconnect between the recruitment rituals of the astartes that weed out the applicants to get the "best of the best of the warriors" that a given recruitment world has to the offer.... to the Astartes transformation process' needing really young bodes for the recruitment process (to the point where the black carpace is finally installed while they're still teenagers)

[Preliminary Bombardment]

This ties into some chat in the lore about how quickly an Astartes can be made. I believe at the time of the heresy 18-24 months was the conclusion. In Dante he's pretty much a scout after 1 year.

 

Add in the fact that the aspirants are children you probably have individuals who are 3 meter tall biologically enhanced power armoured killing machines, who are chronologically 10 years old or under.

Edited June 28, 2019 by Preliminary Bombardment

[Blindhamster]

There's always been a bit of disconnect between the recruitment rituals of the astartes that weed out the applicants to get the "best of the best of the warriors" that a given recruitment world has to the offer.... to the Astartes transformation process' needing really young bodes for the recruitment process (to the point where the black carpace is finally installed while they're still teenagers)

Consider the Spartans, their boys began training as warriors and dealing with hardships from about 7 years old. So it's not so far fetched, just a long way from our modern coddling sensibilities

[redmapa]

In the Index Astartes articles, which havent changed at all, the ideal process can begin at ages 10-14 and the implants are put in groups as the recruit goes and the age requirement is that because the first set of implants essentially boost the recruit's normal growth process. By the time its over the recruit should be 18-20 and then admitted into the Scout company for proper Astartes training. Primaris and Blood Angels put all the organs at once and the recruit is then put into a coma of sorts so its very possible to have an Astartes in a short amount of time or at least much shorter than a decade.

 

As for the youth of the Astartes, its not that radical even for today's modern standards, plenty of places where 10 year olds are forced into factory works or child soldiers and essentially thrusted into a merciless adult world and that has also been part of most of our history, 100 years ago children worked in factories and it was normal and 15-16 years old went to war on their own or were recruited for the war effort and even now they are still recruited at that age though not for frontline duty.

 

Adults being recruited is less than ideal but possible, I assume they are given growth and other hormones to stimulate a second puberty.

[Marshal Reinhard]

 

Consider the Spartans, their boys began training as warriors and dealing with hardships from about 7 years old. So it's not so far fetched, just a long way from our modern coddling sensibilities

 

True but not quite the argument I'm making. I'm just saying I don't think of "barely teenagers" when I think of the best warriors a planet can offer. That's the slight disconnect.

 

Sure you can make it fit, it's a relative statement, they're as killy as you can make child of that age, before they pass the recommended age where they can go through the transformation process.

 

EDIT: Grammar, ugh

Edited June 28, 2019 by Reinhard

[Stoic Raptor]

It might be worth considering that these cultures undergo their rites of passage at such a young age precisely because they aim for aspirants to be chosen by the Astartes.

Those not selected may go on to become great warriors in their own society, just not potential Astartes material.

[Ryltar Thamior]

There's some discussion these days about whether puberty is happening earlier or later in contemporary real-world human populations, as compared to historical ones. It does appear that the ages involved may have decreased in initiation over the past two centuries [in industrialized contexts, at least], although perhaps without much net variation, surprisingly enough, as compared to about *eight hundred* years ago. Which probably says more about the deleterious impacts of living conditions amidst the Industrial Revolution, than anything else.

However, as applies the phenomenon of precocious puberty [i.e. puberty beginning notably before population-wide norms - like potentially several years toward the end of the first decade], there's definite potential for genetic causation. 

Where am I going with this? i) it's entirely possible that this means that the mean puberty onset age in Astartes recruitment-world male populations ... may have decreased, as compared the 'modern standard', whether as a natural reaction to the harsh environs of the worlds in question, or via deliberate manipulation through whatever means. 

and therefore ii) in comparative terms, Legions taking youths at age eight or nine in the nigthmarish far future, may be comparable to dealing with young lads of ten or twelve here in the modern world. Physically/biologically speaking, I mean. 

 

[The Doctor Of War]

So according to the latest fluff, what is the typical age of an Astartes recruit?

 

I remember in Descent of Angels (or was it Fallen Angels), it's implied the recruits are around six or seven years old.

 

However, that seems ridiculously young. If I am not mistaken, the old guard of the Space Wolves and White Scars braved the ascension process as full adults. I'm not sure what's the norm in the current lore.

 

The recruit characters and procedures in Descent of Angels weren't to join the Astartes, but to join The Order before the Emperor arrived at Caliban so i wouldn't take them as the standard age of recruitment.

[Stoic Raptor]

But there is something in Thorpe's Dark Angels trilogy where they are recruiting youth from Piscina V at a similarly young age.

[b1soul]

Yes, Astartes wouldn't be recruiting the best warriors a planet has to offer, they'd simply be recruiting the boys who are tough (and lucky) enough to pass the aspirant trials.

[Felix Antipodes]

Tough and lucky help, but we have seen several instances in the fluff that aspirants are checked over to see if they are compatible/fit enough to take the geneseed

[Stoic Raptor]

Yeah, they don't need the best warriors - they can make and train those far beyond anything a recruitment world can offer.

What they need are suitable hosts, with an indomitable spirit - that can't really be trained.

[Claws and Effect]

 

 

Consider the Spartans, their boys began training as warriors and dealing with hardships from about 7 years old. So it's not so far fetched, just a long way from our modern coddling sensibilities

True but not quite the argument I'm making. I'm just saying I don't think of "barely teenagers" when I think of the best warriors a planet can offer. That's the slight disconnect.

 

Sure you can make it fit, it's a relative statement, they're as killy as you can make child of that age, before they pass the recommended age where they can go through the transformation process.

 

EDIT: Grammar, ugh

It makes a lot of sense for those Chapters that recruit from feral or death worlds.

 

On those planets, if you aren't taking on adult responsibilities by the age of 14 odds are you never will. In both societies you'd be considered a venerable elder if you lived past 40.

[b1soul]

Tough and lucky help, but we have seen several instances in the fluff that aspirants are checked over to see if they are compatible/fit enough to take the geneseed

 

"Tough''' could cover ability to survive implantation process

[b1soul]

OK...

 

So in Scars Tamu who becomes Shiban Khan is eight Terran years of age when the WS Chief Librarian picks him to undergo the trials.

 

In Prospero Burns, Fith who becomes Godsmote is a hersir (by all appearances and adult warrior who fights other adult warriors) when the SW let him ascend.

[The Unseen]

It's also been noted that all of Russes adult warriors chose to try and be implanted, despite the very high chance of death, and a fair chunk of them succeeded, I think more than was expected, but a lot still died.

And an "adult" on Fenris is probably like 14 or 15 years old. It's one of the harshest deathworlds in the galaxy that still supports humans.

[Stoic Raptor]

Even younger, probably.  I'd bet twelve or 13.  If you've managed to survive that long, you're either lucky or good.

[b1soul]

In Prosperous Burns, the warriors generally have beards. So I am thinking Fith is a physical adult.

[Panzer]

Just because the environment is harsh people don't become adults at a younger age. The life expectation goes down but not by that much lol

[Irbis]

Yeah, I don't know from where this misconception comes from. There is a limit on how fast human body can mature (and in fact too fast growth means big joint and bone problems, so if you try to rush it too much you will get worse, not better recruits). Also, no matter how fast you mature, someone in 20s will wipe the floor with someone who is just 12 every time, both by experience and much stronger musculature, so I can't see any civilized society having 12 year olds as 'adults'. Even 16 year old is far from it, and simply cannot do even remotely comparable work as a real adult, no matter if farming or hunting.

 

This is also why I always found the 'feral' world recruiting really dumb, you will have malnourished recruits, with bodies damaged by diseases, lack of nutrients, life trauma and more - yet GW repeats it over and over. Logically, the more civilized and better society, the better quality of the recruits (up to a point, at least) - Ultramar should really produce much better marines than Fenris (or whatever the Flesh Tearer place is called), simply by virtue of being able to pick from healthy, best specimens, not from whoever was lucky...