templargdt Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Personally, I think it's about 3-4 years until GW pulls the plug on the "Firstborn" range. Another post on a separate topic got me thinking about this. The Frater basically wrote "GW has already mentally closed the books on non-Primaris marines. They simply cannot squat them all at once because they need the player base to transition and not rage quit."I think this is basically right, and part of it is recent price hikes that hit. I checked my FLGS this weekend and a box of tactical marines was now $50, and so was a five man devastator box (I remember not so long ago the tactical squad was $30!)At that $50 price point it's hard to justify not buying the 10 man intercessor box for 10 bucks more. I think Devastators are great, but absolutely not for what they asking for. Heck, 10 Helblasters are only 10 bucks more for 5 Devastators! So what are new players entering the hobby going to buy? Intercessors and Helblasters.I personally think GW already has a target date to move the non-primaris range into an index like book for eventual retirement from the game. I doubt it's 9th edition whenever that hits, but I wouldn't be surprised to see something in the fluff when it hits like "as the 42nd Millenium drags on and Dark Imperium grows ever MOAR GRIMDARK few non-primaris marines remain as casualties drag on and only primaris marines are created as their greater strength is needed..." etc. Then a year or two later "almost no chapters remain with any significant numbers of non-primaris marines as casualties have worn on" and that's that. GW will keep the models in an index but they won't get updated. Two other things: one as the molds wear out for kits they simply won't be replaced, GW will cite low sales as the reason, and that will be that. I'm looking at you Thunderfire cannon.Secondly, I wonder if data exists on what the 'lifespan' of a GW player is in the game. I'm fairly certain Magic the Gathering has it. Would be very interesting to know what it is and how that factors into GW plans and decisions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357306-so-how-long-before-gw-retires-the-non-primaris-range/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
redmapa Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 I dont think they ever will retire them, I think what GW is going to do is have the Horus Heresy be its own setting with Firstborn Astartes and then 40k will have Primaris. As to when they'll stop supporting Firstborn in 40k then I think there's a lot of time left for them because of two reasons 1) GW has supported REALLY OLD miniatures for a long time, SoB for example is 15-20 years old and 2)GW has taken their sweet :cussing time with Primaris, its been 2 years and it still is incomplete and full of holes and this next release doesnt look like it will plug all of them, so thats possibly another 2 years maybe more to complete the range AND THEN there's the Chapter specific models and that will take a long time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357306-so-how-long-before-gw-retires-the-non-primaris-range/#findComment-5351338 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Could be tomorrow, could be in 10 years. Impossible to say. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357306-so-how-long-before-gw-retires-the-non-primaris-range/#findComment-5351339 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rookie40K Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Could be tomorrow, could be in 10 years. Impossible to say.Well, then you have the warp to take in consideration. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357306-so-how-long-before-gw-retires-the-non-primaris-range/#findComment-5351343 Share on other sites More sharing options...
templargdt Posted July 23, 2019 Author Share Posted July 23, 2019 Could be tomorrow, could be in 10 years. Impossible to say. I think you can make some educated guesses. Like I wrote, I don't know how you read the new prices, especially on the devastator box, as anything but "dont buy this product." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357306-so-how-long-before-gw-retires-the-non-primaris-range/#findComment-5351349 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephaniah Adriyen Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Ooh, are we calling them Firstborn now? I do think they need to do what you said, which is focus down the Firstborn on Horus Heresy and the Primaris on 40k, and provide rules to run Firstborn armies in 40k. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357306-so-how-long-before-gw-retires-the-non-primaris-range/#findComment-5351360 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Could be tomorrow, could be in 10 years. Impossible to say. I think you can make some educated guesses. Like I wrote, I don't know how you read the new prices, especially on the devastator box, as anything but "dont buy this product." I know about the new prices and they aren't Marine exclusive. Xenos and chaos got price increases as well. No, I don't think we have much to make an educated guess at this point. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357306-so-how-long-before-gw-retires-the-non-primaris-range/#findComment-5351369 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracos Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Ooh, are we calling them Firstborn now? I certainly am It's the most respectful term I've seen yet for the classics. On Topic: It's too soon to tell imo. The narrative would seem to indicate they will be faded out for Primaris but my gut tells me you don't alienate older, economically stable customers by doing so without one heck of a plan in place. Im 55, and bought into Primaris on my return from 5th edition. Even if I had stayed through 6th and 7th though I'd have reinvented my DIY Chapter with Primaris. The models are that much better. Not everyone agrees, At the very worst maybe Primaris get enough options eventually that they can be played "counts as" with minimal purchases? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357306-so-how-long-before-gw-retires-the-non-primaris-range/#findComment-5351370 Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0nolith Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Could be tomorrow, could be in 10 years. Impossible to say. Could be never. Could be that some people like regular marines and keep buying them so they never stop selling. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357306-so-how-long-before-gw-retires-the-non-primaris-range/#findComment-5351373 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Could be tomorrow, could be in 10 years. Impossible to say. Could be never.Could be that some people like regular marines and keep buying them so they never stop selling. Some people liking them wouldn't change GWs plans. There are still people who buy Tomb Kings models for three times the original price on ebay and it doesn't look like GW has any interest in bringing them back either. ^^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357306-so-how-long-before-gw-retires-the-non-primaris-range/#findComment-5351376 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzyeye01 Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 One thing to note is that in AoS, with their new battletome they are going to move some units into being Legends for just older edition stuff. The models will still be there just not supported. Perhaps that is where they will take the Firstborn? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357306-so-how-long-before-gw-retires-the-non-primaris-range/#findComment-5351396 Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0nolith Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Could be tomorrow, could be in 10 years. Impossible to say.Could be never.Could be that some people like regular marines and keep buying them so they never stop selling. Some people liking them wouldn't change GWs plans. There are still people who buy Tomb Kings models for three times the original price on ebay and it doesn't look like GW has any interest in bringing them back either. ^^ That's a false equivalency and you know it. Whatever measly amount of die hard fans existed who kept buying Tomb Kings clearly wasn't enough to help sustain the range. On the other hand, I still see a ton of regular SM stuff whenever I go to a GW, which makes the impression that they sell well so they're worth the shelf space. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357306-so-how-long-before-gw-retires-the-non-primaris-range/#findComment-5351399 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sword Brother Adelard Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Ooh, are we calling them Firstborn now? I do think they need to do what you said, which is focus down the Firstborn on Horus Heresy and the Primaris on 40k, and provide rules to run Firstborn armies in 40k. It's canon too. It was referred to in Spears of the Emperor. Perhaps ADB thought it up? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357306-so-how-long-before-gw-retires-the-non-primaris-range/#findComment-5351400 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 I think GW should release more material for historical (40K) events and thus this will require the maintained line of Classic Marines. After all, there's 10K of history and the Badab War, Battle of Maccragge and other campaigns are of great interest, as well as some scope for entirely different and radical factions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357306-so-how-long-before-gw-retires-the-non-primaris-range/#findComment-5351405 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Reinhard Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 I think the Thunder warriors are turning in their graves at classics being the "first" born Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357306-so-how-long-before-gw-retires-the-non-primaris-range/#findComment-5351410 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Could be tomorrow, could be in 10 years. Impossible to say.Could be never.Could be that some people like regular marines and keep buying them so they never stop selling. Some people liking them wouldn't change GWs plans. There are still people who buy Tomb Kings models for three times the original price on ebay and it doesn't look like GW has any interest in bringing them back either. ^^ That's a false equivalency and you know it. Whatever measly amount of die hard fans existed who kept buying Tomb Kings clearly wasn't enough to help sustain the range. On the other hand, I still see a ton of regular SM stuff whenever I go to a GW, which makes the impression that they sell well so they're worth the shelf space. You see them because people already have tons of them. That doesn't mean they still sell well, especially compared to the new Primaris models. Anyway the point is that GW has a plan of what they are going to do and that won't change. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357306-so-how-long-before-gw-retires-the-non-primaris-range/#findComment-5351415 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ascanius Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 I don't know if Aaron coined the term "Firstborn" or not. I knew it before I read Spear of the Emperor but that may have been from discussions or previews. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357306-so-how-long-before-gw-retires-the-non-primaris-range/#findComment-5351417 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantum Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Could be tomorrow, could be in 10 years. Impossible to say. Could be never. Could be that some people like regular marines and keep buying them so they never stop selling. Just because a product sells well does not mean it will not be discontinued. Many successful products have been discontinued because they no longer fit in their company's long-term strategy. The fact that regular marines are basically non-existent in promotional material, and that for every regular marine unit there now exists a Primaris equivalent with similar role, tells me regular marines will be phased out eventually. Could be years, but certainly before I finish assembling and painting my huge backlog of regular marines. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357306-so-how-long-before-gw-retires-the-non-primaris-range/#findComment-5351420 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 I don't actually think Primaris sell that well when they're not in a "discount" boxed set. I think GW upped many prices so comparatively they appear to not be as expensive as what they are. Right now I buy very few models from GW because of their costs outside of boxed sets and I suspect (forum users not withstanding) most people rely on large boxed sets with just one or two fillers afterwards. Certainly I've never met a Primaris player at events or locally who didn't buy into the boxed sets for their army. Time are hard, man. Financially for the consumers. GW have invested though. They WANT the return from the Primaris range whilst Classic Marines have likely returned their investment long ago. On that basis, economically speaking, you can see GW's path going forward - concentrate on getting a return from the investment of Primaris. Of course it's possible that GW will WANT to maintain a Classic Marines range for narrative gaming prior to the current timeline, but really I think "nu GW" has demonstrated their business practices with the death of Fantasy. There will be no new Classic Marines. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357306-so-how-long-before-gw-retires-the-non-primaris-range/#findComment-5351423 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Again, GW also increased prices of other factions. Claiming they've done so to push Primaris is a bit ridiculous. They also already have told us that the Primaris range is a huge success and sells even better than they were expecting. Buying boxed sets is fine. GW still makes profit with those or they wouldn't offer them. I mostly bought my T'au via discount boxed sets as well (Start Collecting, christmas Battleforce, soon the Apoc), not to mention I bought those from a store where I get a 20% discount anyway. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357306-so-how-long-before-gw-retires-the-non-primaris-range/#findComment-5351425 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbienw Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Could be tomorrow, could be in 10 years. Impossible to say.Could be never.Could be that some people like regular marines and keep buying them so they never stop selling. Some people liking them wouldn't change GWs plans. There are still people who buy Tomb Kings models for three times the original price on ebay and it doesn't look like GW has any interest in bringing them back either. ^^ It only takes a small handful of people with a bit of money and an overwhelming desire to generate huge prices for OOP minis on ebay. Its not an indicator of how popular a faction was. Certainly not in the terms of how economically viable it is for GW to keep a faction in production. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357306-so-how-long-before-gw-retires-the-non-primaris-range/#findComment-5351428 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FormelyKnownAsSmashyPants Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 I have no idea what GW will do, but I hope we'll see a re release of classic marines. I love what they've done with Chaos, both in the level of detail and the way the kits go together, and also the scale. I never thought we'd see GSC or squats again, but one's now a fully fledged army, and to other has been introduced on a much smaller scale, with the two SC in Munda. It looks like we'll also see the return of LatD, with several units being released in BSF and its expansions, although they never were really squatted, they were just FW's schtick for a while. I suppose a good indicator will be what they do with Slaves of Darkness in Sigmar. SoD will either get a full re release with new models or simply just a Battle Time like Free Peoples will be getting soon. Time will tell, although I have my fingers crossed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357306-so-how-long-before-gw-retires-the-non-primaris-range/#findComment-5351435 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbienw Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Yay this perennial topic has reappeared again, what fun They will never retire the classic marine range, in my opinion. Its a range full of iconic classic designs that GW will always come back to at some point. The range now is largely modern with lots of recent kits which they aren't going to want to stop selling for a long time yet. When it comes to a point in, say, 10 years from now when some of the kits need updating due to mold wear, or technology has moved on again and they can produce improved versions, I'm sure classic marines will be revisited. This time frame would also coincide well with the end of their planned 10 years worth of primaris design releases. When they have exhausted those and are fed up of them, they can go back to classic designs to keep the marine money train going They are keeping normal marines in the fluff currently as well. Even if they did decide to change more recent fluff and have the imperium stop making normal marines, they'd still be able to keep the regular marines around for historical purposes. Although the recent fluff is advancing the timeline like a story, there is still the whole 31st to 41st millenium of the 40k setting to play in, in which primaris are not present. People building forces or playing campaigns set in such areas such as the Badab War or the 13th Black crusade aren't going to be using primaris marines for that. As for reffering to classic marines as 'Firstborn', i think this is just a colloquial term used by the forces in the area that ADB's recent novel is set in. Its not an 'official' term Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357306-so-how-long-before-gw-retires-the-non-primaris-range/#findComment-5351438 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rik Lightstar Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Ooh, are we calling them Firstborn now? I do think they need to do what you said, which is focus down the Firstborn on Horus Heresy and the Primaris on 40k, and provide rules to run Firstborn armies in 40k. It's canon too. It was referred to in Spears of the Emperor. Perhaps ADB thought it up? I think it has a great shot of comedy to it, seeing as the initial wave of Primaris were all born in the Heresy and Scouring, so they're older than any surviving Marine except Bjorn and he's in a box-naught. Rik Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357306-so-how-long-before-gw-retires-the-non-primaris-range/#findComment-5351449 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Centurion Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 First, sorry if my English today are not good, im passing a bad time and im not sure if i write well what i want. No one can know for sure if not a GW insider, they said Primaris will not replace Firstborn, they can lie or can keep their words in this, who knows. I belive ur classic boys have more time to fight, 40k its not only the current events, but past centuires to. It can happen, of course, they killed fantasy and bring another stuff, and if this will happen whit my 40k love, i will be a bit sad. I have a company and a half of Space Marines, and my hobby can`t be controlled by GW, i can still build Space Marines, paint Space Marines, play whit it whit prev codex and rules, and even play alone, some pleople like to play alone to. Im in a place where i like Firstborns and Primaris ( but i dont like so much Vanguards Primaris ), both ranges have units to cohoperate whit the other range, and i find funny to play alone or toguether whit each kind, even when i preffer True Marines ( like i call marines pre Cawl Ex Mechanicum ), in my honest opinion, now, Primaris are not well playable whitout classic support, they lack flexibility and their anti tank weapons are scarce or expensive ( for example ), my point whit this: meanwhile the full range of Primaris are not full out, GW will not cut non Primaris. And if one day it will happend...Primaris will be replaced to?, their predecesors are reemplaced, why not Primaris to?, or another entare ranges like Eldars or Tyranids, whit different and new units, but this last sentence im putting a feet in the off topic scenary, so im stop whit it right now. Still a posibility, in the same way like being phased out, to see Space Marines in mkIX one day. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357306-so-how-long-before-gw-retires-the-non-primaris-range/#findComment-5351454 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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