So how long before GW retires the non-Primaris range?

[Marshal Reinhard]

 

I really don't understand how the tactical marines are somehow grittier? Because if the paint job? The models certainly aren't..

 

Both variants make use of skull icons, both variants have purity seals... umm the tactical sergeant has a tabbard I guess? I have to admit, I'd love some primaris models with those. The BA lieutenant isn't enough lol.

 

The two squads have similar silhouettes, just primaris have bulkier legs and torsos with slightly bulkier arms.

 

Is it the helms? Nobody complained about mk4 helms and mkX are very very similar

 

 

Well if you ever find out, do let me know

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

 

The only problem with adding to the classic Astartes is that you keep all the bloat, redundancies and baggage from years of releases, re releases and outdated design philosophy.

As opposed to carrying two completely separate Space Marine model lines as a many here are suggesting?

 

I am fully with Captain Idaho on this. (Btw how do to tag usernames?)

 

Crawl could have simply introduced MkX armor and all the new fancy weapons without Primaris. GW could have simply stated they finally wanted to address the scale problem of Marines being no bigger than elder or Guardsmen. And you simply replace/update existing kits without having to carry two separate lines and develops new rules.

 

That transition would have been acceptable to me.

 

 

I have said it before (when Dark Imperium first dropped) and ill say it again:

 

I think the choices were made in the way they were to drive a new narrative coming down the pipe in the near future. We know Guilliman is struggling in this world he has awoken into, and the Primaris were made in effect to usher in a "new hope" if you will to a dark, decaying, rotten empire. I think that narrative will come to a head, and I expect the Old vs New will be at the center of that. 

 

My radical opinion before (and still is) that we will get another civil war, and the Imperium will be split into multiple factions. Zealous, Traditional, and Progressive.

[Panzer]

 

Mismatching armor marks, most namely helmets?

There is also a basis in lore for this: The Primaris are New™ by Imperium standards. How silly would it be if we had mismatch marks of armor or a variety of helmets with Primaris already? They should look fresh-off-the-assembly-line.

 

 

And even that could be easily 'fixed' since bitz like pauldrons and helmets from classic Marines are completely compatible. Even in-universe if I recall that part from the Jes Goodwin interview correctly.

[Acebaur]

 

Classic marines being phased out is inevitable, and if you are naive if you think that won't happen. The writing is already on the wall. They are disappearing from art and promotional materials and there aren't any new kits being released.

 

But it's not going to happen over night, no, it will be slow, so slow that it will be barely noticeable. The kits will be be produced for a long time to come as long as GW is still making money on them but it will start with rules. First they won't get any major updates, next it will be a separate codex entirely (already rumored to be in the works) until finally they are an index option.

 

And then finally one by one the kits will disappear as they slowly become un profitable. GW will advance the time line with each new codex allowing for the slow attrition of war to kill off most or all of the remaining classic marines until they feature a few remaining grizzled veterans who serve as badass and humorous characters in novels.

 

But there will be no sudden squatting of anything, GW has learned their lesson from WHFB and won't make thst mistake again with their biggest cash cow. But they had to do something, marines had stagnated due to the hole GW had written themselves into with the Imperium's backward tech. That something is the primaris and they are the future of SM

 

The Heresy isn’t even halfway done and all Heresy releases are oldmarine releases.

We aren't talking about Heresy, that's a different game produced by FW.

[Gederas]

Mismatching armor marks, most namely helmets?

There is also a basis in lore for this: The Primaris are New™ by Imperium standards. How silly would it be if we had mismatch marks of armor or a variety of helmets with Primaris already? They should look fresh-off-the-assembly-line.

And even that could be easily 'fixed' since bitz like pauldrons and helmets from classic Marines are completely compatible. Even in-universe if I recall that part from the Jes Goodwin interview correctly.

Iirc, the cover art for the new apocalypse novel even has a Raven Guard Primaris Marine.... Wearing a Mark VI helmet.

[Lemondish]

But it's not going to happen over night, no, it will be slow, so slow that it will be barely noticeable. The kits will be be produced for a long time to come as long as GW is still making money on them but it will start with rules. First they won't get any major updates, next it will be a separate codex entirely (already rumored to be in the works) until finally they are an index option.

 

Not sure that's what's happening. Sure, there's the splitting of the codex that seems likely, but that isn't following a drought of rules updates. After all, they received rules in Vigilus, the latest supplement.

[Marshal Rohr]

 

 

Classic marines being phased out is inevitable, and if you are naive if you think that won't happen. The writing is already on the wall. They are disappearing from art and promotional materials and there aren't any new kits being released.

 

But it's not going to happen over night, no, it will be slow, so slow that it will be barely noticeable. The kits will be be produced for a long time to come as long as GW is still making money on them but it will start with rules. First they won't get any major updates, next it will be a separate codex entirely (already rumored to be in the works) until finally they are an index option.

 

And then finally one by one the kits will disappear as they slowly become un profitable. GW will advance the time line with each new codex allowing for the slow attrition of war to kill off most or all of the remaining classic marines until they feature a few remaining grizzled veterans who serve as badass and humorous characters in novels.

 

But there will be no sudden squatting of anything, GW has learned their lesson from WHFB and won't make thst mistake again with their biggest cash cow. But they had to do something, marines had stagnated due to the hole GW had written themselves into with the Imperium's backward tech. That something is the primaris and they are the future of SM

 

The Heresy isn’t even halfway done and all Heresy releases are oldmarine releases.

We aren't talking about Heresy, that's a different game produced by FW.

 

 

That produces plastic and resin kits for 40k. Just like the hordes of Van Saar and Escher and Goliath that have become Imperial Guard or Cultists, etc. Ya can't say 'they're not making old marines ever again' when mark two has been shown twice now, 2 new terminator units were just released, and a total of like five characters. The only thing Forge World doesnt make for 40k is rules. Everything else is cross compatible for units or conversions. 

[Lemondish]

The need for Primaris was unnecessary and that's my contention. It is cynical from GW to force us to rebut an army instead of add to one. Copyright was unnecessary, since names are names.

If you want to fundamentally adjust the way the force is arranged or fights in a game, then rebuilding the units needs to happen alongside the model update.

 

I'm not sure how they could achieve a new marine identity on the tabletop without something like Primaris.

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

 

Mismatching armor marks, most namely helmets?

There is also a basis in lore for this: The Primaris are New™ by Imperium standards. How silly would it be if we had mismatch marks of armor or a variety of helmets with Primaris already? They should look fresh-off-the-assembly-line.

And even that could be easily 'fixed' since bitz like pauldrons and helmets from classic Marines are completely compatible. Even in-universe if I recall that part from the Jes Goodwin interview correctly.

Iirc, the cover art for the new apocalypse novel even has a Raven Guard Primaris Marine.... Wearing a Mark VI helmet.

 

 

You would be correct:

 

[Marshal Rohr]

Isn't that a Primaris and two old marines?

[Marshal Reinhard]

The corvus style kneepads tells me it isn't a primaris marine

[Robbienw]

Definetly not a Primaris, his armour is a mix of mk6 and 7, and has no features of MkX.

 

Mk6 legs and helmet, Mk7 backpack and chest plate, regular bolt pistol.

 

Only the Imperial first is primaris

[bolvar]

I have accepted that Templars might lose Crusader Squads. But if we in exchange get Primaris Sword bros with new sculpts, its something im willing to accept. (This is my opinions, I don't know how my fellow Templars might react)

Also im assuming Primaris sword bros, due to the fact that the ones we currently have are Resin (and we got sword bros rules back in vigilus strangely), and since calgar and his honor guard got redone, I expect that to be dones to the rest of the range.

If we just lose stuff without getting anything back, its going to be a hard pill to swallow.

 

[Marshal Rohr]

Also, to circle back to the Gritty thing, a lot of Primaris art has been moving away from the clown world aesthetic to the cool Mikhail Savier, Kopinski, and Kev Chin styles

[Sete]

 

 

Dirty and gritty and dark gothic, barroque and full of character and true to the lore and soul of 40k

 

Cleand and bright, generic soulless sci-fi that has lost it's way

Know the difference, it can save your life!

 

 

(And yeah, I know the topic moved on a bit, and yeah I know I've made this argument before.... I just... can't stop my eyes from rolling reading some of what's posted....)

Felt equally pertinent now as then. Guess I could add True vs Untrue Astartest to the list.

 

Oh and don't mistake this for me for thinking you can't have this opinion, I'm just exercising my own right to challange it.

Fallacious argument, when you are comparing the 2 most similar units of the entire range.

 

And looks aside, there is lore to be considered aswell.

 

Just playing devils advocate here ;)

[Boldthreat]

Definetly not a Primaris, his armour is a mix of mk6 and 7, and has no features of MkX.

 

Mk6 legs and helmet, Mk7 backpack and chest plate, regular bolt pistol.

 

Only the Imperial first is primaris

Whilst I agree only the Fist is Primaris. We know Primaris have Mark 6 style shoulder pads and shins. I hope to the Emperor for Mark 6 inspired helmets.

[Marshal Reinhard]

 

Fallacious argument, when you are comparing the 2 most similar units of the entire range.

 

 

I beg to differ. Two kits are the baselines of their respective lines. You can opt in to deck out your old marines more because there's more bits around, one line has existed for 3 decades as opposed to 3 years of the other. But this is the standard look. How they come straight out of their own kit. You're simply misguided in my opinion if you think that's a spurious comparison.

 

If your entire argument boils down to that old marine kits have more bits, then is that an admission by your part that the standard tactical kit is also "soulless" (or whatever you'd call it, that term was thrown out by someone else, don't let me put words in your mouth)? Because again, that's the standard look, you can opt into more decorated ones. The Primaris range has less alternative bits, sure, (though we're disregarding that at least some of the existing bling parts are as compatible to Primaris) but that's a whole other argument if you ask me.

 

EDIT: Grammar as well as tone

[Robbienw]

The people claiming the Primaris had a more modern clean less gothic bitted-up look, and standard marines were too covered in bling started it :lol:

 

 

 

 

Definetly not a Primaris, his armour is a mix of mk6 and 7, and has no features of MkX.

 

Mk6 legs and helmet, Mk7 backpack and chest plate, regular bolt pistol.

 

Only the Imperial first is primaris

Whilst I agree only the Fist is Primaris. We know Primaris have Mark 6 style shoulder pads and shins. I hope to the Emperor for Mark 6 inspired helmets.

What Primaris have mk6 style shins?

[Claws and Effect]

 

Mismatching armor marks, most namely helmets?

Rivets?

More purity seals?

 

I get the emotional connection to a product via nostalgia, but I am just not seeing the above details as something that creates a large divide. There is also a basis in lore for this: The Primaris are New™ by Imperium standards. How silly would it be if we had mismatch marks of armor or a variety of helmets with Primaris already? They should look fresh-off-the-assembly-line.

 

Not arguing or flaming, but I would love to hear someone's specific thoughts about how the two kits differ, and what about the old kit that they feel is missing int he new range that should have been brought over.

I actually like the idea of mismatched armor marks. It suggests that they've been in the field for a significant amount of time and had to replace parts of suits with what they had on hand.

 

It also lends some character if you say it's because this helmet or breastplate once belonged to a venerated hero of the Chapter and wearing it is an honor.

 

Me? I put beaky helmets on anything I feasibly can. Because I'm a son of Corax and beakies are cool.

 

They also look really good on Phobos armor.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

You see, it's exactly this argument why I stopped playing/painting Iron Hands and switched completely to Chaos and my Badab War-era Marines Errant.

 

Gravis armor looks horrid IMHO, floaty gravis moreso. Primaris fluff is *terrible.* I'm basically giving up on M42 Space Marines because Primaris are dumb, and I have no idea what kind of support my Hands will have going forward.

[Marshal Rohr]

You see, it's exactly this argument why I stopped playing/painting Iron Hands and switched completely to Chaos and my Badab War-era Marines Errant.

 

Gravis armor looks horrid IMHO, floaty gravis moreso. Primaris fluff is *terrible.* I'm basically giving up on M42 Space Marines because Primaris are dumb, and I have no idea what kind of support my Hands will have going forward.

 

 

Floaty Gravis need a alot of work (and rescaling their bolters) but they do look good when someone pulls it off. Its just so had to pull off. 

[Lemondish]

You see, it's exactly this argument why I stopped playing/painting Iron Hands and switched completely to Chaos and my Badab War-era Marines Errant.

 

Gravis armor looks horrid IMHO, floaty gravis moreso. Primaris fluff is *terrible.* I'm basically giving up on M42 Space Marines because Primaris are dumb, and I have no idea what kind of support my Hands will have going forward.

More than before given the special Primaris character on the way.

[Sete]

 

 

Fallacious argument, when you are comparing the 2 most similar units of the entire range.

 

 

I beg to differ. Two kits are the baselines of their respective lines. You can opt in to deck out your old marines more because there's more bits around, one line has existed for 3 decades as opposed to 3 years of the other. But this is the standard look. How they come straight out of their own kit. You're simply misguided in my opinion if you think that's a spurious comparison.

 

If your entire argument boils down to that old marine kits have more bits, then is that an admission by your part that the standard tactical kit is also "soulless" (or whatever you'd call it, that term was thrown out by someone else, don't let me put words in your mouth)? Because again, that's the standard look, you can opt into more decorated ones. The Primaris range has less alternative bits, sure, (though we're disregarding that at least some of the existing bling parts are as compatible to Primaris) but that's a whole other argument if you ask me.

 

EDIT: Grammar as well as tone

Well you got it.

One kit exists for 3 decades. With 3 decades of background, and somewhat a linear progression and evolution.

Primaris dont have that unless they "borrow" from their predecessors bling and history.

Hence the souless aspect of their release.

My entire "argument" is that you compared 2 similar units in look and said there are no differences between primaris and firstborn while ignoring reivers, gravis and inceptors that do not share the traditional silhouette of the firstborne marines.

And we are still ignoring the lore, or the soul (in my opinion) of the minis background.

 

Because it's their story that gives them the "humpf". Cant translate it well to words. And honestly primaris are missing that mystique for now.

Hence my agreement on the lack of soul of that release.

I'm sure with a few more years, things will be back to normal, and Primaris will have a soul aswell. But as of now they are certainly lacking. Especially if GW keeps going with this Newb Primaris and Veteran Firstborne.

I want with this time skip to have primaris fully integrated within the chapters so things are normalized again.

[Marshal Reinhard]

 

 

Fallacious argument, when you are comparing the 2 most similar units of the entire range.

 

I beg to differ. Two kits are the baselines of their respective lines. You can opt in to deck out your old marines more because there's more bits around, one line has existed for 3 decades as opposed to 3 years of the other. But this is the standard look. How they come straight out of their own kit. You're simply misguided in my opinion if you think that's a spurious comparison.

 

If your entire argument boils down to that old marine kits have more bits, then is that an admission by your part that the standard tactical kit is also "soulless" (or whatever you'd call it, that term was thrown out by someone else, don't let me put words in your mouth)? Because again, that's the standard look, you can opt into more decorated ones. The Primaris range has less alternative bits, sure, (though we're disregarding that at least some of the existing bling parts are as compatible to Primaris) but that's a whole other argument if you ask me.

 

EDIT: Grammar as well as tone

Well you got it.

One kit exists for 3 decades. With 3 decades of background, and somewhat a linear progression and evolution.

Primaris dont have that unless they "borrow" from their predecessors bling and history.

Hence the souless aspect of their release.

My entire "argument" is that you compared 2 similar units in look and said there are no differences between primaris and firstborn while ignoring reivers, gravis and inceptors that do not share the traditional silhouette of the firstborne marines.

And we are still ignoring the lore, or the soul (in my opinion) of the minis background.

 

Because it's their story that gives them the "humpf". Cant translate it well to words. And honestly primaris are missing that mystique for now.

Hence my agreement on the lack of soul of that release.

I'm sure with a few more years, things will be back to normal, and Primaris will have a soul aswell. But as of now they are certainly lacking. Especially if GW keeps going with this Newb Primaris and Veteran Firstborne.

I want with this time skip to have primaris fully integrated within the chapters so things are normalized again.

 

 

Why should we even sepperate the lore for the two to begin with? Are primaris not part of their chapter? A non true Astartes argument? I doubt GW sees it that way, why should we?

 

You say I'm making a fallacious argument by comparing the baselines of respective model lines to illustrate how similiar they are. I say you are making a convenient omission by not addressing how stripped down old marines are as a base.

 

And I'm genuinely curious but you skirted around answering. Are the tacticals in the comparison also soulless, or do they get to have a soul in your view despite their lack of bling because you arbitrarily decide that the chapters history is their history, while it isn't for Primaris?

 

EDIT: typo

[Panzer]

 

 Are primaris not apart of their chapter? 

Unless you actually mean "apart" as in "separate" you should write "a part" apart or people might get the wrong idea.