New Codex - Math for Thought; Bad, Good or In-Between?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I want to see more crossing over the Rubicon. It can’t happen fast enough for me.

[FlamingDeth]

Definitely way on the side of killing a bunch of characters, though not necessarily with the Rubicon, which is a lazy device to begin with. Front line fighting is dangerous and doing it for 200 years when a lot of these guys are already dangerous is pushing the limits of suspension of disbelief, even for 40k.

 

That said, a lot of them should probably be guys without models, since people are naturally less attached to them, and for characters with models (ie the characters that matter) maybe take out some guys from chapters that have a lot of characters. Telion is ancient and I don't know that anyone cares about Chronus and both of them fill roles that there should be generic entries for. As a DA player I also say dreadnought Azrael up, kill Belial in combat, and let Asmodai die on the Rubicon operating table because he's just terrible. Sammael becomes chapter master, we get a new generation of heroes.

[Lemondish]

I don't want any models of characters killed. Completely invalidating a model is never fun, I don't care how much it "pushes the limit". But completely invalidating the only special character these chapters have? That's just cruel.

 

Characters that are made into models shouldn't be dying unless an immediate replacement is being provided at exactly the same time. One that doesn't fundamentally change what people liked about the unit or model. One that doesn't fundamentally alter the identity of the Chapter.

 

Faced with that challenge, I'd say no deaths are better. But if you have to kill someone, better be from a chapter with plenty to spare.

 

So UM, BT, BA, DA etc.

[Sete]

Like BT has 2... EC is just a death sentence either way that's why he is not named.

Get on to UM, DA and BA first :D

Then IH so things are back to normal :P

Edited August 6, 2019 by Sete

[Lemondish]

Like BT has 2... EC is just a death sentence either way that's why he is not named.

Get on to UM, DA and BA first :D

Then IH so things are back to normal :P

Still more than others, so you get to be on the list. Sorry, those are the rules...

 

 

 

...that I made up

[Disruptor_fe404]

Eh I think GW shouldn't Primaris ANY characters. It's just dishonest when they say they're keeping Classic Marines around. Besides it's also rather unoriginal.

***

I think stuff we'll see go includes:

- Honour Guard

- Chapter Champion

- Chapter Ancient

I agree. I think Lieutenants (the non-Primaris ones) have a chance of disappearing as well, as they don't have extant models.

[MegaVolt87]

 

Eh I think GW shouldn't Primaris ANY characters. It's just dishonest when they say they're keeping Classic Marines around. Besides it's also rather unoriginal.

***

I think stuff we'll see go includes:

- Honour Guard

- Chapter Champion

- Chapter Ancient

I agree. I think Lieutenants (the non-Primaris ones) have a chance of disappearing as well, as they don't have extant models.

 

 

They do, the multi part space marine commander, can be captain or Lt. 

[CCE1981]

It’s not like GW hasn’t killed off Space Marine characters before. Ahem, Chaplain Xavier.

[Claws and Effect]

If GW kills Shrike on the table they will hear the sound of lightning claws powering up reverberating through their office halls.....

 

He's my favorite character and the reason I chose Raven Guard as my primary Chapter.

 

Besides, we've already effectively lost 2 special characters in the transition from 7th to 8th (Korvydae and Solaq both had rules once upon a time....), isn't that enough?

[MegaVolt87]

If GW kills Shrike on the table they will hear the sound of lightning claws powering up reverberating through their office halls.....

 

He's my favorite character and the reason I chose Raven Guard as my primary Chapter.

 

Besides, we've already effectively lost 2 special characters in the transition from 7th to 8th (Korvydae and Solaq both had rules once upon a time....), isn't that enough?

 

Isn't Shrike the CM now though? Killing him off would create too many continuity problems in the lore, random blackouts in the office with clawed up walls etc. 

[Medjugorje]

 

Cant wait for BT unique discipline.

I hope BT get some other unique set of rules like chapter specific litanies.

 

And at least two unique characters. Would you prefer Primaris Grimaldus or Helbrecht?

 

I hope so too.  But we all know since the 30k Horus Heresy success - GW drives another strategy and everything is about First founding Chapters.

 

 

I would prefer Grimaldus actually, but Ideally I want all three, event though I commissioned an EC conversion (official model should mean updated rules)

 

If there are some cuts in this way... i dont believe so ( although i always expect the worst from GW)...  

-Grimaldus is (beside Lemartes and to my subjecitve feeling before Asmodei and Cassius) the most iconic Chaplain of all Astartes

-High Marshal Helbrecht is the Boss - beside the fact he wasnt beloved on the battlefield before 8th edition (because the bad rules he used to have) GW would not do that - maybe in the story he stays as Oldmarine but would not die

-The emperors champion is THE most iconic unit of the black Templars - And beloved also outside of the black Templar community.

 

 

So.. IF GW dont want to make our beloved Chars into Primaris ... then they would stay as Oldmarines

I would prefer Grimaldus actually, but Ideally I want all three, event though I commissioned an EC conversion (official model should mean updated rules)

 

 

 

I just don't see why a Primaris Champion would need a different datasheet than a non-primaris, the current EC is still way better than a standard initiate or intercessor, which is what they really are, just with better gear and enthused with the spirit of the Emperor.

because as Primaris he looks better (and 5W and 5A would be cool too^^)

 

And Plastic is always so much better then Resin

I just don't see why a Primaris Champion would need a different datasheet than a non-primaris, the current EC is still way better than a standard initiate or intercessor, which is what they really are, just with better gear and enthused with the spirit of the Emperor.

because as Primaris he looks better (and 5W and 5A would be cool too^^)

 

And Plastic is always so much better then Resin

Edited August 7, 2019 by Medjugorje

[chapter master 454]

Lysander went from Sergeant to Captain, Shrike went from Captain to Chapter Master and all of the Ultramarine characters remain blander than bland cereal without milk. To me the whole Rubicon thing just seems meh. GW be like "na we aren't axing old marines"...meanwhile all the special characters just seem to be all becoming primaris for NO reason....just saying. So GW are axing old marines if this keeps up unless we finally get some lore about MAIN characters (He'Stan, Lysander and/or Shrike) refusing the rubicon not because of failure rate but because they don't agree with it (or maybe even have them jab at the equipment thing).

 

Some characters that should be chapter shuffled: Cronus to Iron Hands, Telion to Raven Guard, Tigerius to White Scars (I know he's established but of all loyalist chapters, White Scars are most notable for their psykers...or is it some odd tradition thing I am remembering they have...storm seers?). Calgar and Cassius stay as Ultramarines.

 

We bring back Cortez, screw it, we rubicon him because "we found him having finally broken his pinky toe and holding on. If he dies,he dies" and we now have a sweet Crimson Fist character backing Pedro Kantor and a great way of reinforcing the massive boost CF got from the new primaris (like seriously, would be awesome).

 

Retcon Xavier back to life somehow, maybe make it similar to the concept of the relic finder in honour of how the chaplain just refused to die. Maybe a special rule where if he dies, if another friendly chaplain is nearby he can take up the mantle on the battlefield there and then.

 

Give Imperial Fists a new guy, possibly even they could be a candidate for cronus to be shuffled to (siege masters need their tanks).

 

Sorry, Massive tangent.

 

Certainly odd, I mean...isn't it silly to have the codex and supplement be named the same thing ;)

[SkimaskMohawk]

Shrike was cool in 4th in 5th when raven guard were melee focussed and he had a point to be taken. His fluff was interesting and not "literally the whole point of the chapter"' he had built up a skill set over a protracted amount of time.

 

Then they didn't know what to do with raven guard, didn't know what do to with shrike and then made the Damocles supplement where they introduced the chapter master just to kill him so shrike could be the new boss. And then the even worse novel was released of shrike.

 

If they killed off shrike, I don't think it would actually matter at this point. He had a contrived promotion, has only had bad media representation, not done anything with the contrived promotion, the game barely treats him as a chapter master and he has anti synergy with his chapter rules. Kill him off, make a new bespoke 8th ed raven guard character and have 3rd company captain shrike as legacy rules like Tyco. At least he'll have some dignity by being paired up with his old accomplishments.

[Claws and Effect]

It would matter to me, and a lot of Raven Guard players.

 

Currently, Shrike is the last connection to the Raven Guard Chapter we all loved before GW decided to abruptly change their entire playstyle.

 

Yes, we had a lot of Scouts, and many of them were snipers. GW seems to have forgotten that the Raven Guard were also excellent at coming out of nowhere to slice the enemy to ribbons with lightning claws.

 

If they kill Shrike it is confirmation that the Chapter we loved is something else now.

[Medjugorje]

dont forget there were Characters which still gone away ond noone cares....

-The blood angel relic guy in 2nd edition.

-The Banner Neophyte

-The DA Scout Guy

-Cpt. Tycho

-Imperial Fists Seargent from the 6th Edition Supplement

-Cpt. Cortez - (but he had a great book!!!!)

 

I think there are a few characters which had not the big fanbase...

But thats not the case ( like I would say) for all Characters at the moment maybe except

-Lysander, Sicarius and Cassius. But thats just a spontaneous thought.

[Medjugorje]

It would matter to me, and a lot of Raven Guard players.

 

Currently, Shrike is the last connection to the Raven Guard Chapter we all loved before GW decided to abruptly change their entire playstyle.

 

Yes, we had a lot of Scouts, and many of them were snipers. GW seems to have forgotten that the Raven Guard were also excellent at coming out of nowhere to slice the enemy to ribbons with lightning claws.

 

If they kill Shrike it is confirmation that the Chapter we loved is something else now.

I think that new CT work very well now for that kind of warfare... And i dont belief that GW put Shrike into a Chapter Master and then disappear.

[Disruptor_fe404]

 

 

Eh I think GW shouldn't Primaris ANY characters. It's just dishonest when they say they're keeping Classic Marines around. Besides it's also rather unoriginal.

***

I think stuff we'll see go includes:

- Honour Guard

- Chapter Champion

- Chapter Ancient

 

I agree. I think Lieutenants (the non-Primaris ones) have a chance of disappearing as well, as they don't have extant models.

 

They do, the multi part space marine commander, can be captain or Lt.

True, but he's Direct-only and his description indicates he's a Captain. Pretty damning if you ask me, but you may be right!

[MegaVolt87]

Would like to see Sicarius rubiconed and become the chapter master for the Void Tridents. 

[SkimaskMohawk]

It would matter to me, and a lot of Raven Guard players.

 

Currently, Shrike is the last connection to the Raven Guard Chapter we all loved before GW decided to abruptly change their entire playstyle.

 

Yes, we had a lot of Scouts, and many of them were snipers. GW seems to have forgotten that the Raven Guard were also excellent at coming out of nowhere to slice the enemy to ribbons with lightning claws.

 

If they kill Shrike it is confirmation that the Chapter we loved is something else now.

Well heres the thing, he has no character and no charisma which is rather at odds for a chapter master. You look at helbrecht, a character whose model dates back to a similar time and you see something very different; templar players can point at the model and say "that's the guy who's in charge, and he's going to reinforce what the chapter does" .

 

Now, for me, when I look at shrike on the battlefield I just feel this lingering sense of embarrassment instead of pride. I'm embarrassed that the circumstances of his new role is terribly contrived; I'm embarrassed that regardless of his new status, gw didn't even give him the same courtesy as other chapter masters in terms of statline; I'm embarrassed that his role in the army is so counter to their design of the raven guard.

 

If they kill him off, at least that whole mess will be buried and done with; Tycho style rules will provide a link back to shrikes wing that he sorta encourages now while also allowing a new, different character to be made that supports the chapter tactics.

 

And until then, I'm going to continue pretending Issodon is the Raven guard chapter master. His lore is good, as forgeworld's usually is and his rules feel like he's an exemplar of a given type of warfare. Hes mastered asymmetrical warfare and assassination, without any of the going invisible nonsense.

Edited August 7, 2019 by SkimaskMohawk

[Claws and Effect]

So because you don't like the character, those of us who do should have him replaced by someone we don't care about at all?

 

That's pretty harsh.

[Tyberos the Red Wake]

They already killed the previous RG Chapter Master (by a damn Tau in melee, at that) to promote Shrike, it'd be the height of absurdity to then murder Shrike as well. The "R" stands for "Raven", not "Redshirt".

[Dracos]

 . . . or, they fixed all of Shrike's issues in the new Supplement with a statline, sensible Warlord Trait and a Chapter Stratagem that synergizes.

 

Patience all geez.

[Panzer]

 

-Grimaldus is (beside Lemartes and to my subjecitve feeling before Asmodei and Cassius) the most iconic Chaplain of all Astartes

 

Don't you dare forget about Astorath the Grim! :P

[Medjugorje]

 

 

-Grimaldus is (beside Lemartes and to my subjecitve feeling before Asmodei and Cassius) the most iconic Chaplain of all Astartes

 

Don't you dare forget about Astorath the Grim!

 

Who? 

[Panzer]

 

 

-Grimaldus is (beside Lemartes and to my subjecitve feeling before Asmodei and Cassius) the most iconic Chaplain of all Astartes

 

Don't you dare forget about Astorath the Grim! :P

Who? :P

Fite me! :P