New Space Marines codex and YOU

[Zustiur]

I strongly recommend against purchasing any model which isn't in our current codex. The idea that will gain thunder fire cannons etc would mean space Wolves gain tactical squads. I'm sure that's not what they meant.

Wait until the books are out and we see the promised PDF. Then make your decisions.

[Hantheman]

Yup. I’d resist from buying most models until we know where we stand tbh. I’m sure you’ve all got backlogs!

[Deadman Wade]

I strongly recommend against purchasing any model which isn't in our current codex. The idea that will gain thunder fire cannons etc would mean space Wolves gain tactical squads. I'm sure that's not what they meant.

Wait until the books are out and we see the promised PDF. Then make your decisions.

Well, technically, we had a precedent with Black Templars, whose codex specifically said that they have no tactical, scouts and devastator squads as well as Sternguard and Vanguard vets.

But overall, you're right, I wouldn't buy anything until codex is released. After all, GW is nototious for it's inconsistency when it comes to the rules.

[Angel of Solitude]

I strongly recommend against purchasing any model which isn't in our current codex. The idea that will gain thunder fire cannons etc would mean space Wolves gain tactical squads. I'm sure that's not what they meant.

Wait until the books are out and we see the promised PDF. Then make your decisions.

Couldn't agree more.

 

My view is that the new C:SM will be a direct like-for-like replacement with the existing C:SM, a codex which has no impact on building a Dark Angels army. We won't be able to cherry-pick from C:SM any units currently unavailable to DA, and incorporate them into a battle-forged detachment.

 

The FAQ/Errata update will be like a regular FAQ update that will include the following:

• Update ATSKNF to the new Angels of Death rule;
• New Litanies of Faith mechanics for Chaplains;
• Data sheets for the new units (Repulsor Executioner / Impulser / etc...);
• Updated points values to align C:DA with C:SM.

I see everything else - including Chapter Tactics, unique characters/units - remaining as they are until a new C:DA is released.

[jbaeza94]

I hope c:da has chapter creation tools

[Lostrael]

I hope c:da has chapter creation tools

I hope that C:DA will have Legion creation rules. 

[Guest]

 

I hope c:da has chapter creation tools

I hope that C:DA will have Legion creation rules. 

 

 

Isnt your book  out already Lost? ;)

[Lostrael]

 

 

I hope c:da has chapter creation tools

I hope that C:DA will have Legion creation rules. 

 

Isnt your book  out already Lost?

Well I should not buy that book. My friends just stopped calling my Dark Angels a traitor legion. I would not jeopardize this small achievement.

 

I agree to jbaeza94.

It would be cool to use the new Chapter creation options on the Unforgiven Successors, to get a bit more individuality, but perhaps with some rules to cooperate as a Legion.   

[jbaeza94]

Yeah, ill always be a da at heart, but i would like if my iron lions could be a little more choppy then shooty, since spears are their thing. Some sort of charge bonus similar to the old power spear rules.

A good way to combine them with my old dark angels with my new lions would be nice with (not) legion rules

[Berzul]

I am quite intrigued with the new rules for Successor Chapters.

 

It is a simple change to the codex of the vanilla marines, that actually makes me extremely excited, as it finally provides a way to characterize the army in a way that is not just "this army, but with this other color". Having an actual, mechanical difference, in how the army is played, through its own chapter tactics, is HUGE for someone who —like myself— has and always will be playing successors.

 

But, these rules do not apply to Dark Angels yet. I imagine that, should I use them, I'd have to play with the vanilla codex, despite being a Dark Angels Successor by fluff. Which would mean no access to Dark Angel type units, such as the Deathwing and the Ravenwing, or the Dark Angel Stratagems or any Chapter Specific Stratagems.

 

That, in itself, and as a side note, makes me wonder: What will happen with stratagems for a successor chapter? Will armies just have access to less stratagems, only having the general Astartes ones, and none other?

 

But, the real question for me is, will there be rules for creating First Legion Successors, in the way this new rules are presented?

 

I'll be looking forward to this, more than anything else in these releases, I think

[Guest]

Man the Vanguard stuff is so nice :)

 

I will end up with a Company of them :)

[HandsWithLegs]

Looks like we won't be getting the new combat doctrine mechanics, and I haven't seen anything about DA/SW/BA getting the new chaplain abilities. Looks like we're falling even further behind on the power curve 

[Brother Quinn]

When they say new units from Codex: Space Marines, according to the warhammer community article, they mean:

• Captain in Phobos Armour
• Librarian in Phobos Armour
• Lieutenant in Phobos Armour
• Eliminator Squad
• Incursor Squad
• Infiltrator Squad
• Suppressor Squad
• Invictor Tactical Warsuit
• Impulsor
• Primaris Repulsor Executioner

I understand all the marines get Angels of Death rule, right?  If so, would that include the doctrines?  It seems it's rolled into the rule... but also mentions it for Codex: Space Marines.  Who knows at this point.

[Berzul]

As I understood it, we get Angels of Death, but Doctrines are for C:SM. We get that list of new units, but nothing else, until we get a new updated codex.

 

I am guessing that the coming update will:

 

1) include us into the litanies for Chaplains (that we do not get yet, as far as I can tell),

2) get us a Primarized Azrael (maybe a Primarized Ezekiel Belial and Sammael too), and

3) give us the primaris equivalent for the Deathwing and the Ravenwing. If not in full, at least one squad of each to begin the reforming of both wings into Primaris.

[Brother Ramael]

Allright, two things can happen here when our codex comes out (imho): either we get our version of doctrines or if they skip on them they can go heavy handed on rules for RW and DW to balance it out.

[Berzul]

What would make sense, when it comes, would be that the new codex:

 

1) Give us Primaris versions of key characters. Azrael, for sure. Belial and Sammael make sense too.

2) Give us a comprehensive list of the models of the Ultramarines Updated Codex, that we now have available

3) Give us revised versions of our chapter tactics (Deathwing rule, Ravenwing Rule, and out general Chapter Tactic)

4) Give us Angels of Death and other such Adeptus Astartes new rules that should apply to everyone

5) Give us Litanies for our Chaplains and Interrogator Chaplains

 

and it would be interesting to see if they also

 

6) Give us rules for successors, or make the successor rules for Chapter Tactics that is coming for successors of the regular Astartes, available for us, without meaning that we set out of the codex and loose access to DA special units such as the Deathwing Knights, the Darkshroud, the Black Knights, or the Dark Talon.

7) Give us access to Doctrines, or a version of this special rules that fits our codex in particular;

8) Bring in Primaris Deathwing Terminators and Knights, Primaris Ravenwing Bikers and Black Knights, and Primaris Landspeeder Vengeance and Ravenwing Darkshrouds

[Solrac]

Really disappointed that we will not be getting the Doctrines. A additional -1 AP army wide for zero points is too good. I know you have to pick the weapon type but you can easily build a list to maximise a particular weapon type so you don't have to change your doctrine.

 

I was very hopeful with this new marine codex that I'd be able to get my Dark Angels off the shelf and play at Tournaments again. Nope. Staying on the shelf.

[sneakybamsen]

I don't read it as saying specifically that we don't get doctrines. It's part of the Angels of Death rule, so we could get it, as I see it. Remaining hopeful. Nevertheless, even shock assault is a boost alongside the new units and improved rules for some of the shadowspear stuff. More is needed and wanted, that is sure, but it's better than nothing. Let the week end, then we know how we're looking for the forseeable future.

[Angel of Solitude]

I think what is becoming apparent with the new releases is that the new releases themselves - even though DA will be able to field them - are not about to make DA more competitive. Space Marines can do everything DA can do, but better, because they can optimise chapter tactics and they have access to the tactical doctrines. My thinking is that if you want to take the new stuff, then you're better to do it through an allied SM detachment.

 

In the short term this is disappointing, as we still have to wait for the boost that DA need. But in the long-term...man, are these exciting times! C:SM is showing the way in which GW are approaching Space Marines, and they will surely take a very similar approach to DA. The really key question is how they will address the issues that make the BA/DA/SW non-codex compliant:

• DA natural distrust of Primaris. We had some hint of this cooling somewhat, but this may have implications on whether any characters successfully go through the Rubicon Primaris. I can't see Belial becoming a Primaris, and having a large number of Primaris marines among the ranks of the Inner Circle. I can maybe see the Ravenwing being more likely as being a place for those Primaris marines that have built a level of trust, but this leads to the next problem:
• No obvious bikes / landspeeder replacements. We haven't had any hints of any Primaris bike or landspeeder releases, although we haven't seen the White Scars supplement yet. All of the Fast Attack Primaris choices have been making use of grav-chutes, but nothing near the 20" range of bikes / speeders.
• No obvious terminator replacements. Calgar now rocks Mk X Gravis armour, and I expect Lysander will be similar. So perhaps Aggressors are the terminator equivalents? However, is T5/3+ a satisfactory replacement for T4/2+/5++? I'm not sure.

Anyway, all we can do now is play the waiting game, and make a daily prayer to Him for the safe return to the Imperium of the Lion himself...

[Interrogator Stobz]

We are now moving from neo2nd Ed to a neomishmash of 2nd/3rd Ed.

 

I cannot wait until 9th/neo 3rd Edition.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

A bit off topic, if I may... In 3rd we had the worse codex, my ass was handed to me in industrial levels, but it was the times I had more fun because how the games played out. I miss those days of sweaping advances that made every unit look like Usain Bolt.

Our Codex had improved since then, every edition getting better but they general and special rules have become more complicated, detracting from gameplay, IMHO.

[Hantheman]

I don't read it as saying specifically that we don't get doctrines. It's part of the Angels of Death rule, so we could get it, as I see it. Remaining hopeful. Nevertheless, even shock assault is a boost alongside the new units and improved rules for some of the shadowspear stuff. More is needed and wanted, that is sure, but it's better than nothing. Let the week end, then we know how we're looking for the forseeable future.

 

Sadly confirmed we don't get doctrines.

 

 

Anyway, the new transport. Three with 5 man hellblaslers in, first turn blam- rapid fire plasma death!

[sneakybamsen]

 

I don't read it as saying specifically that we don't get doctrines. It's part of the Angels of Death rule, so we could get it, as I see it. Remaining hopeful. Nevertheless, even shock assault is a boost alongside the new units and improved rules for some of the shadowspear stuff. More is needed and wanted, that is sure, but it's better than nothing. Let the week end, then we know how we're looking for the forseeable future.

 

Sadly confirmed we don't get doctrines.

 

 

Anyway, the new transport. Three with 5 man hellblaslers in, first turn blam- rapid fire plasma death!

 

 

It would be nice if you supplied some proof of those "statements" you come up with

[Hantheman]

 

 

I don't read it as saying specifically that we don't get doctrines. It's part of the Angels of Death rule, so we could get it, as I see it. Remaining hopeful. Nevertheless, even shock assault is a boost alongside the new units and improved rules for some of the shadowspear stuff. More is needed and wanted, that is sure, but it's better than nothing. Let the week end, then we know how we're looking for the forseeable future.

 

Sadly confirmed we don't get doctrines.

 

 

Anyway, the new transport. Three with 5 man hellblaslers in, first turn blam- rapid fire plasma death!

 

 

It would be nice if you supplied some proof of those "statements" you come up with

 

 

 

 

This is not our codex mk 2 sadly.

 

However the doctrines do open an interesting door for them to create a hexagrammatron doctrine for us when we get our re-work

[shabbadoo]

This release isn't really about Dark Angels, Space Wolves, or Blood Angles. The release is mostly focused on Build-Your-Own-Chapters and Ultramarines, White Scars, Iron hands, Imperial Fists, Raven Guard, Salamanders, and all of their successors. We get access to the new (er) models and a PDF FAQ to update rules (Angels of Death). We'll have to wait for the FAQ to see if we get further rules updates for specific units, such as the Chaplain Litanies, but don't expect to be able to pick and choose from doctrines. I have little doubt we will get access to the new psychic stuff, which we should be getting more information on imminently. I think conjecture regarding stay-in-play spells, a' la Age of Sigmar, is what that will be. Some of the psychic effects could look rather nice: Vortex, Foot of Gork/Mork (AoS really dropped the ball in not doing this one), Psychic Storm, etc.