What are you looking forward to most in the RG supplement?

[Dracos]

Be nice man. :)

 

It could just be his play style has a different mind set in what works for him. I’m actually not sure why your low on the UM. It’s nasty in its own right. I bet we see some of the tournament scene featuring UM wins over next few weeks. I don’t see what the hotness for Iron Hands is. Don’t get me wrong their bad to the bone too. Just it seems like it wants to castle a bit much for my taste. (RG player bias of course)

 

I think UM strength is in its special characters and a nasty ability to scoot and shoot. Just need to dial in on what makes it work and survive at the same time. The big. games seen to go to durable armies (yeah Iron Hand) that can excel in the maneuver phase imo.

 

Honestly they’ve done a great job on all these regardless of cries of OP it all just makes Marines almost competitive with the Soup list which is a good thing. I’m excited to see Sallies and Templars (I hope?) in a month. At this rate I could see them putting out supplements for all the other Astartes based off the Codex. Maybe not Grey Knights or Wolves ... but I’m praying hard for my long gone 3e and 2e army brothers to get some real love soon.

[Ishagu]

Problem with the Ultras is that Iron Hands play similar to them but better.

 

No movement penalties (but from turn 1). Better firepower, more durable, they even get a relic to recover CP on a 5+

 

On the other hand you have RG and WS who have significant movement and deployment abilities that can deliver units quickly and unlock other avenues of play and offense. White Scars can assault from distance and outflank Repulsors, Raven Guard can deploy aggressively and teleport in any infantry unit that is negatively impacted by range - Super useful! And don't even get me started on the psychic powers that Ultras got stuck with compared to the other 3 Chapter specific disciplines. We did get the best psyker in the codex but no good powers to cast besides Scryer's Gaze lol

What I wouldn't do to have a character who can assault from 40"+ away...

[SyNidus]

Back on topic. Reading through the rules...i’m quite happy actually. I think they’ve given us a very good toolbox of deployment and disruption tactics to play with.

 

I’ll be digesting this for awhile. At the moment i don’t know whether i want to deepstrike a unit of hellblasters or a unit of grav centurions.

 

Shrike being able to assault from 40” away also means he can go in with the 3 invictors i plan to infiltrate forward.

[KGatch113]

 

At the end of the day the game isn't about killing characters, it is about killing enemy units. RG got almost nothing that helps that, it seems.

 

Mine are going back on the shelf. I hear Ultramarines are good.....

And yet there are multiple units I can list right now that are better at killing in a Raven Guard list.

 

-Centurions

-Hellblasters

-Chaplain Dread

-Eliminators

Etc, etc

 

Being able to deliver a unit into optimum firing or assaulting range without having that unit damaged or depleted in extremely valuable. If you fail to recognise the value in that it's your shortcoming as a player.

 

I've been playing Deathwatch. It has plenty of units that can be delivered up into optimum firing range without being damaed or depleted. Then next turn those units get wiped out. None of the units you listed are impressive. The Chaplain Dreads are great at a distance, because up close they lose their character protection.

[Ishagu]

Yes, a unit deployed in no man's land by itself can be destroyed by an opponent. RG have the means by which to support units deployed aggressively, and there are more options available to Astartes like Invictor Dreads and fast moving flying infantry that adds to the pressure. Also, with a Unit like Centurions you don't have to deploy them particularly close - just in range of the impressive guns.

[SyNidus]

Mod mode:

++There is no need to get personal, either of you. Please keep your comments and contributions constructive++

 

 

Anyway, i realise with the style of list i’m thinking of running, i actually lack long range anti-tank weapons.

 

Not entirely sold on the grav centurions...those guns are still only s5 after all.

[Valdr Fell-fist]

I’m looking forwards to reviving my rather outdated Carcharodons.

 

The idea of a Jump Pack Chapter Master with the Teeth of Terra and both the Master of Vigilance and either Champion of Humanity/Imperium’s Sword Warlord Traits.

Combine that with the ‘Whirlwind of Rage’ Successor Tactic and id give him good odds on killing most characters through sheer mortal wounds, not even actual normal damage!

[Ishagu]

Yeah it's the Strat that makes them so good. With a character aura and re rolls to wound+damage, as an example, you can still do 10-16 wounds of damage to a T8 vehicle from just 3 Centurion Grav Cannons.

[Cordova]

Having been away from the game and my models for months (sold my house, moving house, which then fell though, now living in a shared house with all my stuff in storage), I have not had any chance to get into the hobby for a while.

 

However, this book gave me some hope and a positive thing to look for.

 

I have watched so many reviews this weekend and the overwhelming thing that I have noted is that the opinion is comically split. Some people are now bemoaning it, calling it weak etc. The other half are like, whoa, this is gonna need some thinking but there are some brutal options.

 

I like the fact that it is going to be a more thinking approach. I like the idea of facing a big gunline (or whatever) and just cutting bits of it apart piece by piece. Sure, it isn't an obvious buff across the board, but it offers a tricksy approach which I think is fitting.

 

I like it.

[MajorNese]

The more I re-read the rules, the more options I find...and there are perfect opportunities to build fluffy Raptors. Well, except for the vehicles - most don't fit the theme.

 

Swift and Deadly WL trait sounds promising with bikers. 20" guaranteed movement and still charge, while being T5, same wound count as primaris, and have access to storm shields.

Accompanying bikers have enough wounds to soak up overwatch.

 

More than one phobos libby might make sense.

Shrouding and Temporal Corridor could be a nice combo, send a unit somewhere to charge something, while being untargetable like a character. That unit might be a pain in the rear end to remove.

The usual "mind sniper" phobos libby still works. Any character barely surviving the snipers can receive 2MW, half its movement and yield a CP in the process.

 

For snipers - there's no kill like overkill.

Korvidari bolts + phobos captain for 36" ignore-LoS sniping. Only one shot with korvidari, but that gun only has one. S4 AP-3 3D in tac doctrine.

Primaris stalker captain or phobos leftenant upgrading to Ex Tenebris to gain an assault 3 stalker bolt rifle that can target characters. S4 AP-3 2D in tac doctrine.

Eliminators as usual - great with RG.

 

With tac doctrine being where we excel, it might be necessary to delay most aggressive movement to turn 2.

Delay enemy movement with a TFC - for 3CP you can slow down 2 units at once.

Have some resilient-yet-cheap targets in front, to soak up turn 1 charges - a bulwark of Tarantulas should work.

Meanwhile use snipers to start chipping away at key characters. Enemy got a TFC? Kill the gunner. Lieutenants? No invul, easy target for AP-3 Eliminators.

 

Turn 2 turn on the Storm of Fire strat (all assault/RF guns), deep strike both natural DS units (Inceptors) and the ones from the strat (Centurions, Hellblasters, Aggressors), and get some captains where needed. Some meatshields might be useful - Reivers or Intercessors (with CP) can soak up wounds and be a nuisance. Even humble bolt rifles then have AP-2 to AP-3 in that turn, just like all those inceptors.

Charge shenanigans are not my strong suit, but there are options too.

 

For chapter tactics, I'm looking at Stealth and Master Artificier. The former is auto-include for Raptors, the latter is great for improving the low number of sniper shots.

AT might be an issue, and I have no idea what to do with my own vehicles. But I guess I'll figure that out...

[SkimaskMohawk]

I don’t see what the hotness for Iron Hands is. Don’t get me wrong their bad to the bone too. Just it seems like it wants to castle a bit much for my taste. (RG player bias of course)

Well if you're going to double down on their character and relic then there's going to be a central castle for sure. But I feel like its going to be smaller than the ultras just due to the relics range. The rest of their stuff that won't be in that aura can operate on their own far better than equivalent marine units due to calculated fury.

 

Raven guard look like they're going to be far faster, but will need more characters to support those fast moving options, or to position them in the first place.

[Brother Quixote]

I've now reached a point where I'm just waiting for the supplement to drop and read it for myself.

 

While I appreciate the effort people take to go through the new supplement and let us know what's in it, these things tend to happen:

 

1. The reader only goes on about the things they have noticed and think are strong in the lists they see played regularly. Forgetting to mention abilities for units 'no-one plays because they're garbage'.

 

2. They misread rules to how they think they work. Or speed read things to get their video out asap. Little mistakes are made and this then becomes internet 'truth'.

 

3. I get a headache trying to read blurry screenshots to verify rules.

 

4. I get the new rules and don't read them properly myself because I 'know' them already. (I'm such a jerk like that).

 

5. I get disappointed because my great new plan doesn't actually work like I thought it did.

 

Still excited though.

[Nusquam]

I feel better looking at our tool kit. I was worried when they previewed old stuff and ours after IHs new rules. We're not 1:1 powerful like them but there are tools in the kit for game changing moves. Those stratagems really helped alleviate my worry.

 

We play like 30k RG now, the premier killshot army. Rather than gun down or hit everything better, we kill certain things the best. Its thematic.

[ShinyRhino]

I've now reached a point where I'm just waiting for the supplement to drop and read it for myself.

 

While I appreciate the effort people take to go through the new supplement and let us know what's in it, these things tend to happen:

 

1. The reader only goes on about the things they have noticed and think are strong in the lists they see played regularly. Forgetting to mention abilities for units 'no-one plays because they're garbage'.

 

2. They misread rules to how they think they work. Or speed read things to get their video out asap. Little mistakes are made and this then becomes internet 'truth'.

 

3. I get a headache trying to read blurry screenshots to verify rules.

 

4. I get the new rules and don't read them properly myself because I 'know' them already. (I'm such a jerk like that).

 

5. I get disappointed because my great new plan doesn't actually work like I thought it did.

 

Still excited though.

Amen.

I've got the book on preorder. I skipped Shrike because I've got a backlog of models and haven't run a Special Character since Cato Sicarius in 5th/6th Edition.

 

I just like how flexible the supplement makes my army. I can run what I want and still play in the big sandbox with the local FotM ITC guys, and have fun doing it.

 

I can't preplan Big Combos (can you hear that Killer Instinct announcer?) very well, I tend to read and react. The book feels like it'll help that play style.

[duz_]

=][= As others have already eluded to, be civil to one another or the thread will be closed. In the Ravenspire we expect a higher standard than N&R forum. First and final warning. =][=

[Claws and Effect]

Sorry duz, I've been guilty of it myself. I'm a little cranky about some things related to this release that I won't go into here and it's been bleeding into my posting a little bit.

 

I'm just excited that my Raven Guard will finally be good at playing how I've been trying to play them all along.

 

I actually really like the fact that we have to be clever and creative with our rules to get the most out of them, instead of just plunking down models and having the army practically play itself.

[superwill]

Can someone please explain the 40” shrike charge to me? And are people saying that the full release has been leaked somewhere? Been looking for it but can’t seem to find any kind of write up about it.

 

Also, did the whole “Strike Force Shrike” end up just being a fluff piece as expected? I’m assuming it’s not the cool unique unit or formation that some people were desperately hoping?

[Ishagu]

Can someone please explain the 40” shrike charge to me? And are people saying that the full release has been leaked somewhere? Been looking for it but can’t seem to find any kind of write up about it.

 

Also, did the whole “Strike Force Shrike” end up just being a fluff piece as expected? I’m assuming it’s not the cool unique unit or formation that some people were desperately hoping?

-Shrike has a 14" natural move - very fast for a flying character.

 

-There is a 1CP Strat in the RG supplement you can use on a unit to allow it to charge after advancing, and it also adds +1 to charge rolls.

 

-There is also a psychic power you can cast on a Phobos unit to allow it to move and advance in the psychic phase.

 

When you add all those up you can fly 40" or more across the table and into combat. Also Shrike prevents overwatch from being used on him.

 

With RG it's best to take a Phobos Librarian with the Tome of Malcador - this allows 2 powers from the excellent new RG discipline, as well as access to Temporal Corridor from the Vanguard psychic powers in the main codex.

You can imagine how well this combines when you can teleport another character across the table, as well as infiltrate units closer to the enemy.

[ShinyRhino]

Can someone please explain the 40” shrike charge to me? And are people saying that the full release has been leaked somewhere? Been looking for it but can’t seem to find any kind of write up about it.

 

Also, did the whole “Strike Force Shrike” end up just being a fluff piece as expected? I’m assuming it’s not the cool unique unit or formation that some people were desperately hoping?

There's a pretty detailed workup on 1d4chans tactics page.

 

I'm pretty sure that Strike Force Shrike is just a gallery page, like the Ultramarines one on page 106 of the main codex.

[ShinyRhino]

 

Can someone please explain the 40” shrike charge to me? And are people saying that the full release has been leaked somewhere? Been looking for it but can’t seem to find any kind of write up about it.

 

Also, did the whole “Strike Force Shrike” end up just being a fluff piece as expected? I’m assuming it’s not the cool unique unit or formation that some people were desperately hoping?

-Shrike has a 14" natural move - very fast for a flying character.

 

-There is a 1CP Strat in the RG supplement you can use on a unit to allow it to charge after advancing, and it also adds +1 to charge rolls.

 

-There is also a psychic power you can cast on a Phobos unit to allow it to move and advance in the psychic phase.

 

When you add all those up you can fly 40" or more across the table and into combat. Also Shrike prevents overwatch from being used on him.

 

With RG it's best to take a Phobos Librarian with the Tome of Malcador - this allows 2 powers from the excellent new RG discipline, as well as access to Temporal Corridor from the Vanguard psychic powers in the main codex.

You can imagine how well this combines when you can teleport another character across the table, as well as infiltrate units closer to the enemy.

The falling down point of the 40" claim is that Temporal Corridor only works on a unit within 3" of the Librarian, and the psychic phase comes AFTER the movement phase. So you'd have to move to the Librarian in the movement phase, then have TC cast successfully on Shrike. That's very awkward to do without the Librarian getting eaten beforehand while setting everything up just right.

[Nusquam]

The libby would have to shadow step to keep up with shrike.

[Bluflash]

Or, since a Phobos Libby gets scout deploy, just set him in the right spot for a Shrike pit stop, plus or minus the Libby move and advance.

[Dracos]

Exactly why I went with a Phobos Librarian with my most recent Primaris purchase. Which is a fib because I while I do think it has good psychic powers, truth is I got lucky. I just like the model better :)

[superwill]

Ah okay, I had a feeling it involved the power. Yeah slingshotting does seem a bit risky to me - but I guess you just look at your opponents list beforehand and assess whether or not their list is capable of hunting your Libby out from his hiding spot or not, and if they are you have a plan b.

[Jacques Corbin]

So, anybody know if the Phobos Librarian can take Umbramancy, or not?

 

Also, anybody else thinking of using Shadow Step to move an Apothecary around the board?