"Sleeper" rules/abilities from the UM Supplement

[Paulinus]

I stand corrected.  Thanks.

 

I guess the martial precision would not really be needed with a  2+ to hit anyway/  So not an UM sup sleeper unit and more of a general SM tactic.

[Captain Idaho]

It's still pretty good though. Especially if combined with Sons of Guilliman for re-roll 1s to hit.

[CCE1981]

So let's add the Thunderfire to the list.

 

It might not have been noticed but...

 

The Techmarine gunner now has 4 wounds vs the 2 he used to have. It also has a BS of 2+ not 3+.

 

Now this one is CP intensive but you can literally stop an entire army from moving too fast.

 

Start with Tremor shells (1 CP)

Use the Martial Precision from the Ultra supp. (1 CP)

Then use the suppression fire (2 CP)

 

Target a unit, auto hit, halve its movement, reduce advances and charges. fire again at another unit, auto hit halve its movement, reduce advances and charges. and maybe cause a few wounds. In the first turn you'll be getting a -2 ap on those 8D3 auto hits.

 

Scions also give the TF unprecendent movement options now and move and shoot without penalty starting turn 2.

 

You'll stop daemon hordes, orcs, nids etc.

 

A little expensive CP wise but you can really mess up a plan with this and you will get double the effect in one turn.

You forgot to give him Seal of Oath. If he’s gonna be sitting back with the rest of fire support you might as well do that to help get rid of something big and bad.

[CCE1981]

 

Gravis Captain - Warlord trait: Rights of War

2CPs - Chapter Master

1CP - Exemplar of the Chapter - Nobility Made Manifest

Vox Espiritum

 

That is a 9” re-roll hit + Moral Immunity & Captain has Defenders of Humanity + Infantry/Biker Units have Heroic Intervention

 

Add the 1CP Strategem Inspiring Command, and that bubble is now 12”!

 

Question is, if I take the Successor Tactic Born Heroes, can Infantry/Biker units Heroically Intervene 6”?

[Kallas]

Gravis Captain - Warlord trait: Rights of War

2CPs - Chapter Master

1CP - Exemplar of the Chapter - Nobility Made Manifest

Vox Espiritum

 

That is a 9” re-roll hit + Moral Immunity & Captain has Defenders of Humanity + Infantry/Biker Units have Heroic Intervention

 

Add the 1CP Strategem Inspiring Command, and that bubble is now 12”!

 

Not convinced that's a good use of resources 

It'd likely be much better to just go with Indomitable for one of the Successor Tactics (can only lose one model to morale).

 

Question is, if I take the Successor Tactic Born Heroes, can Infantry/Biker units Heroically Intervene 6”?

 

I'm very curious about how this pans out too, as I intend to use Born Heroes for my Howling Griffons, and if it does synergise with Nobility Made Manifest then that'd be awesome.

 

My logic is that they would synergise:

Born Heroes: 

"CHARACTER units with this tactic can perform a Heroic Intervention if there any enemy units within 6" instead of 3", and when doing so can move up to 6" instead of 3" "

 

Nobility Made Manifest:

"Friendly ULTRAMARINES INFANTRY units and ULTRAMARINES BIKER units can perform a Heroic Intervention as if they were CHARACTERS whilst they are within 6" of this Warlord."

 

It's the, "as if they were CHARACTERS" that makes me think that they should benefit from the combination of both, but it's far from clear.

[CCE1981]

Yeah, I can’t get myself out of taking Stealthy. It just fits with the background I’ve come up with for my DIY Chapter. A huge part of my Chapter lore, including the very paint scheme has to do with coming out if the mists of a swirling maelstrom. Stealthy is just the only way to represent that. The only question is what is my second trait? My Chapter does a lot of Relic hunting, this explains why such a young Chapter, Ultima Founding, has so many Mortis Contemptor Dreadnoughts, or things like Leviathan Dreadnoughts. Do I expand on that with rules, or do I add more flavor to that? I really want to add flavor to that.

 

As for Exemplars of the Chapter, what other Aura Warlord Trait would you pick? There really aren’t that many of them. I’ve previously used Storm of Fire, I really wasn’t that impressed, and here it won’t stack with Doctrines, so any benefits would be hamstringed.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Does the Champion have an invul ?

[Kallas]

For Exemplar of the Chapter, there are a few decent choices:

* Nobility Made Manifest is good, if you're bringing some reasonably competent melee units

* Paragon of War is alright, best on either a Teeth of Terra Captain (for volume of attacks), or Benediction of Fury Chaplain (for doubling down on 6s causing Mortal Wounds)

* Master of Strategy could be pretty good. It's not chosen in any particular phase, so you could get benefit from it on Drop Pod/disembarking units! Also, it's not a replacement of the current Doctrine (like Squad Doctrines is), it's an addition!

* Calm Under Fire is good for an Ultramarines/Inheritor, particularly with large units of Intercessors

 

For the initial/non-, Exemplar Trait:

* Imperium's Sword and Champion of Humanity are both good for increasing the power of the character

* Iron Resolve is decent for making one tougher, though not the best pick overall (personally I much prefer force multipliers)

[CCE1981]

Company Champion has an invulnerable with the Combat Shield, the Chapter Champion does not have an invulnerable.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Oooof

[Paulinus]

He hits first even when charged. So make sure you go first. He’s a -1 to hit in melee so maybe some synergy with Tigurius prescience ability if you really want to go that route. He’s probably best used though as a heroic intervener. Near something you don’t want charged. He gets 6”.

[CCE1981]

The Champion doesn’t fight first even when charged. You alternate, starting with the player whose turn it is. It’s a huge distinction.

[Joukernaut]

The rapid redeployment stratagem combined with infiltrating units like the invictor warsuit/infiltrators/incursors/CC scouts.

Deploy as if going second, if you get the first turn redeploy three CC squads with infiltrate 9 inches out from the enemy, walk up charge and profit. 2 very well spent CP.

Extra’s could be pop squad doctrines for AP-1, or popping fight twice to infiltrate deep into enemy lines and tag tanks, etc.

[Captain Idaho]

A 2+ save is the equivalent of a 5+ invulnerable against most weapons to be honest. Or better. Few weapons in close combat will hit him with AP-4 or better.

 

However, you can give the Chapter Champion the Tarentian Cloak for a 5+ Invulnerable save and D3 wounds healed back each turn.

[StraightSilver]

I have a rules query related to the Ultras supplement and I think I am reaching/grasping and so the answer is no but wondered what people thought.

There is a specific Ultramarines Tactical Objective that grants 1Vp for killing 1 unit, 2VPs for killing 2 and 3VPs for killing 3 units in a round. The number of VPs is doubled for Ultras if the Tactical Doctrine is in play.

There is also a Litany for Chaplains which, if inspiring, allows a unit within range to shoot/attack as if the Tactical Doctrine were in effect.

Therefore, would the unit get double the VPs that round if they had the Tactical Objective in play but the Tactical Doctrine wasn't in effect overall - for example you draw the card in Turn 1 when the Devastator Doctrine is in play but could still get double VPs for one unit if the Chaplain inspires them?

[Joukernaut]

I’m saying nay.

[StraightSilver]

I’m saying nay.

Yeah, I think you're probably right, as I was typing out my post I thought it was probably not the case.

[Cruor Vault]

The rapid redeployment stratagem combined with infiltrating units like the invictor warsuit/infiltrators/incursors/CC scouts.

Deploy as if going second, if you get the first turn redeploy three CC squads with infiltrate 9 inches out from the enemy, walk up charge and profit. 2 very well spent CP.

Extra’s could be pop squad doctrines for AP-1, or popping fight twice to infiltrate deep into enemy lines and tag tanks, etc.

 

If you're playing ITC style events, expect that combination to be ruled against. 

 

Similar interactions from the Craftworlds Codex and Phantasms stratagem were ruled to require the new deployment to follow the standard deployment methods, ignoring the unit's special rules.

[Chapter_Master Loraton]

So I think I found something that may be pretty strong involving Intercessors but I want to make sure my understanding of the game and wording is accurate.

 

So you have an intercessor squad with normal rifles, use the squad doctrine strat to give them tactical doctrine that turn, move into position, shooting phase activate the strategem to increase their weapon to rapid fire 2. Since they are in tactical mode they count as stationary and get the Bolter rule.

 

If it’s a full 10 man team that’s 40 shots, AP -2 on turn 1. And you can throw on other buffs and reroll abilities.

 

Additional, when the tactical doctrine is active naturally can you activate the strategem to give wound rolls of 6 another point of AP? According to the new codex cumulative bonuses of AP don’t stack unless told so otherwise. Clearly the UM strategem specifically states it’s use only in the tactical doctrine but doesn’t say it stacks. To my reading the intent is that it does but doesn’t really spell it out.

 

Thoughts?

[Kallas]

So you have an intercessor squad with normal rifles, use the squad doctrine strat to give them tactical doctrine that turn, move into position, shooting phase activate the strategem to increase their weapon to rapid fire 2. Since they are in tactical mode they count as stationary and get the Bolter rule.

 

If it’s a full 10 man team that’s 40 shots, AP -2 on turn 1. And you can throw on other buffs and reroll abilities.

 

Should work. Can also be used with the UM Warlord Trait 'Master of Strategy' - applies the Tactical Doctrine to a unit (unlike Squad Doctrines, it's not restricted to Infantry/Bikers too; so a unit of three Land Speeders, or a Vehicle, could benefit) within 6" once per battle round, for the duration of the battle round. Can be used in concert with Squad Doctrines to apply the Tactical Doctrine to two units in turn one. Not sure how useful MoS is, as I think a lot of Ultramarine strategies will revolve around heavy use of Tactical Doctrine from turn two onwards, but still quite nice.

[Toxichobbit]

Additional, when the tactical doctrine is active naturally can you activate the strategem to give wound rolls of 6 another point of AP? According to the new codex cumulative bonuses of AP don’t stack unless told so otherwise. Clearly the UM strategem specifically states it’s use only in the tactical doctrine but doesn’t say it stacks. To my reading the intent is that it does but doesn’t really spell it out.

 

 

As written, the Tactical Expertise doesn't stack with Tactical Doctrine. Obviously that makes Tactical Expertise pointless, as you're paying 2CP to achieve nothing. The intention, however, is clearly that it does stack and it'd be dickery of the highest calibre for an oppontent to force you to play it as written. I'd expect it to change in the upcoming Ultramarines FAQ.

 

It seems like they forgot about putting the wording into the doctrines that prevents AP modifiers from stacking when writing the rest of the rules, as currently nothing stacks with them (as far as I know).

[Captain Idaho]

Something I didn't consider is the humble Attack Bike. 4 wounds and only 37pts for a Heavy Bolter and twin bolter, this is actually a really good way to fill Fast Attack slots and provide emergency fire support around objectives.

 

I used 1 to great effect last night in support of units people want to kill more than him.

[crazyterran]

It's also a good replacement for the Tarantula Sentry Gun, as it's the same price for the same T/W but can move. 

[Ishagu]

So I've given humble Chronus in a Scorpius a go. Very, very good.

 

There's a debate if he can take the Paragon of War Warlord trait (which adds 1-3 mortal wounds in addition when he hits something) but if you nominate a tough unit with the Seal of Oath he can pretty much Nuke it in a couple of turns - this includes Knights!

Of course it's a heavy strat cost.

[crazyterran]

Since he's not the one firing the weapon in game mechanics terms (the entry for Chronus just adds the Character keyword and provides a buff for the vehicle, no?) I would say he doesn't grant Paragon of War to the vehicle, but i'll have to read his entry again. 

 

Does Chronus not come with a Warlord Trait?