Ishagu Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 Nope, but as a character a vehicle can indeed have a Warlord trait. The Scorpius has both the character and Chronus keywords. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357681-sleeper-rulesabilities-from-the-um-supplement/page/7/#findComment-5377357 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kallas Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 Chronus' Vehicle is an oddity. It gains the Character keyword, so would be eligible to get its own Warlord Trait, regardless of whether Chronus has/is given one. I think the safest bet would be to use Hero of the Chapter to give Chronus' ride a Warlord Trait, rather than giving Chronus one. The Vehicle can't have a Relic (as stated in every Relic section) but Warlord Traits are not exempt. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357681-sleeper-rulesabilities-from-the-um-supplement/page/7/#findComment-5377392 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 Chronus' Vehicle is an oddity. It gains the Character keyword, so would be eligible to get its own Warlord Trait, regardless of whether Chronus has/is given one. I think the safest bet would be to use Hero of the Chapter to give Chronus' ride a Warlord Trait, rather than giving Chronus one. The Vehicle can't have a Relic (as stated in every Relic section) but Warlord Traits are not exempt. Interesting work around. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357681-sleeper-rulesabilities-from-the-um-supplement/page/7/#findComment-5377529 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 Since he's not the one firing the weapon in game mechanics terms (the entry for Chronus just adds the Character keyword and provides a buff for the vehicle, no?) I would say he doesn't grant Paragon of War to the vehicle, but i'll have to read his entry again. Does Chronus not come with a Warlord Trait? Wow that is the worst interpretation I’ve seen yet. Really quite the stretch. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357681-sleeper-rulesabilities-from-the-um-supplement/page/7/#findComment-5377557 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 Can Chronus ride in a Sicaran? I saw it in a video batrep. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357681-sleeper-rulesabilities-from-the-um-supplement/page/7/#findComment-5377558 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 Can Chronus ride in a Sicaran? I saw it in a video batrep. No, that must be a mistake in that batrep unfortunately. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357681-sleeper-rulesabilities-from-the-um-supplement/page/7/#findComment-5377579 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 Somehow I’m thinking it wasn’t a mistake. LOL Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357681-sleeper-rulesabilities-from-the-um-supplement/page/7/#findComment-5377599 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 Try not to laugh as you read this... but here’s a thought.... Vindicator tanks! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357681-sleeper-rulesabilities-from-the-um-supplement/page/7/#findComment-5377640 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 If it fired 2d6 shots then yeah for sure. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357681-sleeper-rulesabilities-from-the-um-supplement/page/7/#findComment-5377671 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kallas Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 Try not to laugh as you read this... but here’s a thought.... Vindicator tanks! Not laughing. Scoffing, sure... But why do you say Vindicator? I mean, what's the point? Sure, it's reasonably cheap and being straight up d6 shots is better now than the previous d3/d6... but it's still far from good. For the same kind of cost you could grab a Predator with PAC/HBs and get more value; or just go with a Hunter, which is cheaper and reliable on it's own merits (very useful vs Flyers; less maximum damage output but way more likely to apply it). Without Linebreaker Bombardment (which was only ever interesting in theory, never in practice) and no real stratagem/buff support... what's your thinking on the Vindicator? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357681-sleeper-rulesabilities-from-the-um-supplement/page/7/#findComment-5377692 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 Chronus is a Vindicator Laser Destroyer could be very, very potent. Especially with the Ultramarine doctrine. The tank becomes a strikingly effective anti armour platform. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357681-sleeper-rulesabilities-from-the-um-supplement/page/7/#findComment-5377849 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joukernaut Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 I was actually considering the vindicator with chronus as well. Sure the D6 is swingy, but even with two shots it can actually do some decent damage when hronus is behind the wheel and the tactical doctrine is active (or pop a strat). S10, AP -4 is actually very good, it cometely removes the save of most tanks. It’s also cheap and tough. I see susters if battle immolators do some decent work when taken in trio’s, so why wouldn’t the vindicator be able to do the same? It might also work as a distraction driving a tough tank up the board. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357681-sleeper-rulesabilities-from-the-um-supplement/page/7/#findComment-5377862 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 Well the reason I say this, and perhaps this is more indicative of the state of Chaos then it is Space Marines, but I've pulled them out with the D6 shots and to be fair it's not that bad. They're fairly cheap, and T8 is fantastic. As an Ultra player there's no penalty for moving, and I don't think people really want to shoot at them. Since this is a 'sleeper' thread, I thought I'd throw the biggest sleeper of all out there. lol It's funny to me that we scoff at this but even with out the strategem (which I think was much harder to pull off against most armies anyway - and make it pay off). I think this shows me just how strong the Space Marines codex is that the Vindicator going to D6 means very little now. 2 Months ago it would have made a significant impact. I know right now, with Chaos players, it's very enticing, and they don't have near the re-rolls, or bonuses to go along with it.. .just the strat. (which again I've played a lot with my Black Legion and there's a lot of games where it doesn't come into effect.) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357681-sleeper-rulesabilities-from-the-um-supplement/page/7/#findComment-5377913 Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyterran Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 Wow that is the worst interpretation I’ve seen yet. Really quite the stretch You are accusing me of interpreting rules badly, but then ask if Chronus can ride a Sicaran? The work around other people mentioned could work to put it on the vehicle directly, but the Predator or whatever is still a separate model from him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357681-sleeper-rulesabilities-from-the-um-supplement/page/7/#findComment-5378349 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 It's an interesting point to consider, Prot. Consider the odds are good of 3+ shots that are S10 and D6 damage. It's like a cheaper and less dangerous anti-tank version of the Heavy Laser Cannon of the Executioner. I still would rather it was D3 plus 3 shots, or automatically hit at half range (not cheesey when that is 12") but still. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357681-sleeper-rulesabilities-from-the-um-supplement/page/7/#findComment-5378361 Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero88 Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 Here's something nasty that Ultramarines can do, a little better than other chapters 1) Phobos Librarian with Tenebrous Curse 2) Librarian of your choice with Psychic Shackles 3) Thunderfire Cannon 4) 3 CPs 5) Optional.. Be a successor with "Knowledge is Power" The key here is that Tremor Shells strategem specifically says it applies for that model until the end of the phase. Suppressive Fire strategem doesn't make you target the same unit both times you fire. The result is that you can have the movement of FOUR units a turn. Against so many armies that rely on speed (Khorne, Kraken, etc) that can absolutely cripple battle plans and give you a huge advantage in Maelstrom. If you want to be extra take a few squads of Infiltrators to seal off any deep strikers who want to go around your plan Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357681-sleeper-rulesabilities-from-the-um-supplement/page/7/#findComment-5378425 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 At 85pts is anyone looking at barebones Whirlwinds? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357681-sleeper-rulesabilities-from-the-um-supplement/page/7/#findComment-5378429 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 At 85pts is anyone looking at barebones Whirlwinds? Yes, definitely. The regular variant is very good. It has a similar performance to a Helverin for half the cost if you use the shoot twice Strat. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357681-sleeper-rulesabilities-from-the-um-supplement/page/7/#findComment-5378454 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 For the points ive been comparing Whirlwinds to Suppressors. They look like they have similar damage outputs Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357681-sleeper-rulesabilities-from-the-um-supplement/page/7/#findComment-5378517 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 Whirlwinds are very cost efficient. Same as the Hunter, both of which can support your army nicely for cheap yet provide target saturation with it Strategum support means a single Whirlwind can double its firepower for a turn, on average, whilst hitting things from out of sight. Being a vehicle makes them much more survivable than 3 dudes with Autocannons. You take them for different reasons. As for those reasons, with the new Codex rules making our Jump Pack assault troops better, Suppressors are much more useful for us now and unexpected. They have AP-3 during the Devastator Doctrine to boot. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357681-sleeper-rulesabilities-from-the-um-supplement/page/7/#findComment-5378558 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOneMarshal Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 Suppressors seem like a good place currently where they can stay sat for a turn and enjoy the ap-3 and then from there they can be finally enjoy the purpose of being a jump pack heavy weapon squad. Jumping around taking pot shots. One unit I found out was amazing after last game is the assault cannon Razorback. I know it’s already a great unit but it gets to god tier against marines. I managed to remove like 15 primaris in one turn. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357681-sleeper-rulesabilities-from-the-um-supplement/page/7/#findComment-5378773 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joukernaut Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 Suppressors seem like a good place currently where they can stay sat for a turn and enjoy the ap-3 and then from there they can be finally enjoy the purpose of being a jump pack heavy weapon squad. Jumping around taking pot shots. One unit I found out was amazing after last game is the assault cannon Razorback. I know it’s already a great unit but it gets to god tier against marines. I managed to remove like 15 primaris in one turn. how did you remove 15 primaris with 12 D1 shots? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357681-sleeper-rulesabilities-from-the-um-supplement/page/7/#findComment-5379065 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 I presume he had more than 1 unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357681-sleeper-rulesabilities-from-the-um-supplement/page/7/#findComment-5379125 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guiltysparc Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 I finally got to play a game with the new rules...gotta say, a Chaplin and Agressors is a great combo. Flamethrower agressors being inspired by Catechism of Fire is soooo tasty. 12d6 hits, +1 to wound, -1AP, and 2 damage on the Sargent if you give him MC weapons, which I did, roast the bejeesus out of anything. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357681-sleeper-rulesabilities-from-the-um-supplement/page/7/#findComment-5379674 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kallas Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 With regards to the Master Crafted Special Issue Wargear: it does not give AP-1 on its own, it only gives +1D. That said, I would assume that you were benefiting from Tactical Doctrine anyway...but just to be clear Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357681-sleeper-rulesabilities-from-the-um-supplement/page/7/#findComment-5379679 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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