Codex: Grey Knights Amendments Project

[Waking Dreamer]

Browsing other non C:SM Chapters forums here, and they all seem to be in a similar place with speculating what may be waiting for their own SM chapter with CA2019, possible future Codex 2.0 / Supplements / WD updates etc.

Since our own Codex came out 24 months ago, and with the objectively stagnant state our codex rules have been, I think we have a fairly solid grasp of the weaknesses a Grey Knights army comes with now. So, I had a go at compiling those experiences, ideas and opinions expressed from this GK forum into structured rules, in a format inspired by the recent SM Codex 2.0 rules / supplements.

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For me personally, it is a way to keep a positive attitude with GKs in this hobby. Regardless of what GW will / wont come up with, having these rules derive from our own experiences into a refined and visually more tangible / usable form, is somewhat of a placating consolation imo. So I thought sharing it here with other GK players could help keep their attitude more positive.

So, anyone interested in running these rules against the new and improve SM Supplements / Daemon Primarchs? Lol Edited December 8, 2019 by Waking Dreamer

[Captain Coolpants]

I would be very happy to receive these rules! I think they are very fair and absolutely balanced this edition!

 

Would still probably still struggle against regular Marines. But its a hellova lot better than what we have now.

[Holier Than Thou]

The problem with this is it’s so much better than what GW will actually put in our eventual Codex that, although it is designed to keep the positivity up in the here and now, it will only succeed in making the disappointment of what we do actually get all the more crushing.

 

We all sent emails to the official email they gave us to provide feedback, we all identified almost all the same issues that needed to be addressed and each and every time a new FAQ or errata or Chapter Approved came out we saw we had been completely ignored.

 

Yes, we got some reductions in the last Chapter Approved, but when nearly the entirety of the other factions got similar and in some cases better reductions, it made ours absolutely worthless.

 

So, you may find some solace in this but it’s only going to make it worse when our next turd, I mean Codex is released, because you’ll see how much more effort you put in than they will, yet they’ll be the ones asking to be paid for it.

 

I’ll say it again though, some nice ideas.

[Yossarion]

Gonna play these tonight with my group. I'll let you know how they feel power wise. List wise I'll be bringing a blob of paladins, a grandmaster and an apothecary and ancient and a ven dread. 950 point game, narrative play so i will be creating a custom grand master in addition to these rules!

Edited August 19, 2019 by Yossarion

[Waking Dreamer]

^ Wow, nice!

 

Yes, if you could provide feedback and share on your experience with these rules it would be great.

[Waking Dreamer]

List wise I'll be bringing a blob of paladins, a grandmaster and an apothecary and ancient and a ven dread. 950 point game, narrative play so i will be creating a custom grand master in addition to these rules!

 

For a custom GM, a possible load out could be:

- First to the Fray (WT)

- Fury of Deimos (Relic)

- Daemon Hammer 

 

FoD + Rites of Consecration = 6 S6 AP-2 D1 shots, re-rolling 1s. And in the next battle round FttF + Predestined Charge = add 1 to Charges re-rolling. That GM would be a solid all-rounder, doing work in all the phases again.

[Yossarion]

^ Wow, nice!

 

Yes, if you could provide feedback and share on your experience with these rules it would be great.

I ended up using a chaplain to try the new litanies as well. I deep struck turn 2 but my friend busted out his necrons he had never played before. He put half his army in a monolith, moved it to a bad spot. It lost 9 wounds to a lascannon and a paragon killed it on the 8" rerollable charge (I failed the litany of hate for the bigger charge ) . He conceded after that as half his army died. The psybolt rule and +1 to charge doctrine where the only thing that actually happened in that game that was new since the chaplain flubbed. Will test some more the next time I play. Didn't feel overly strong but maybe with litanies the charge from deep strike could be too much . Edited August 20, 2019 by Yossarion

[Waking Dreamer]

^ Cool. Good to know it didn't suddenly become OP.

 

+1 to charge isn't crazy good by itself, but it's a guaranteed buff across multiple units, without CP cost nor relic/WL slot requirement. It's best used with FttF and with at least 3 units charging in the same turn to get the most out of it. Chaplin litanies would be better (+2 to charge), but as you experienced can fail going off a third of the time.

 

Against an army who is capable of going the distance, I think would definitely give you the chance to flex the new rules a bit more. Nice feedback!

[taikishi]

Your "Battle-forged Army Rules" would mean that bringing any non-GK units causes your units to lose Brotherhood of Psykers and Knights of Titan. Is that intentional, because right now you just get these rules for being Battle-forged and every unit in the detachment having the Grey Knights faction.

 

Psychic Chorus and its associated special rules are also worded in a way that you get them if your entire army (again, not detachment) contains any form of loyalist Space Marines - Codex, BA, SW, DA, DW. Did you mean to write detachment here, or do you intend to turn these rules off if you have Grey Knights fighting alongside Guard, Mechanicus, Sisters, Inquisitors, or Knights?

[Holier Than Thou]

Your "Battle-forged Army Rules" would mean that bringing any non-GK units causes your units to lose Brotherhood of Psykers and Knights of Titan. Is that intentional, because right now you just get these rules for being Battle-forged and every unit in the detachment having the Grey Knights faction.

 

Psychic Chorus and its associated special rules are also worded in a way that you get them if your entire army (again, not detachment) contains any form of loyalist Space Marines - Codex, BA, SW, DA, DW. Did you mean to write detachment here, or do you intend to turn these rules off if you have Grey Knights fighting alongside Guard, Mechanicus, Sisters, Inquisitors, or Knights?

I imagine they are intended to work to encourage a pure Grey Knights force by accessing more abilities, much like the new Space Marines gain some benefits for being battle forged but get more powerful benefits for all being from the same Chapter. I think it’s a great idea and should be implemented in all of the Codices so that soup is still possible but not the automatic best option. So if you are battle forged but not pure GKs, then your GK detachments get some abilities but to get the best stuff you have to avoid allies. Edited August 20, 2019 by Holier Than Thou

[Corvus Fortis]

I ended up using a chaplain to try the new litanies as well.

 

 

 

GK cannot benifit from Litanies of Battle, unless you homerule it. GK chaplains didn't recieve them, and allied SM chaplains cannot use them, because they only affect their own <Chapter> keyword.

 

Concerning the rules, I think, that making psybolt ammunition a Psychic power will make it auto-choice. Why throw a mortal wound at enemy unit or cast a psychic power, if you can make 20 HB shots from a minimum squad? It will make our army kind of "Drop and shoot everything to death" like Deathwatch now.

 

I also think, that Psychic Chorus rules should be ones that only available when every model in army is GREY KNIGHTS, while brotherhood of psykers and knights of titan are left as they are now. 

 

Psychic Chorus can be set at the same way as doctrines, cycling through the rounds, and a stratagem that can shift them, when needed.

 

On Purifying flame: I think, the real problem is not its range, but the fact that we cannot place purifiers where they need to be before they are dead. If it is increased to 6", Purifiers will become pretty straightforward. Still a solution to their situation though. But they need +1 attack, really.

 

For Crowe: Giving him stances and mortal wound on 6+ to-wound (or even to-hit) will pretty much fix him. I still consider him already OK for his cost.

 

I see no point in buffing Banner of Refining Flame - it is already our best relic. And why Destroyer Relic need additional mortal wounds? It is OK as it is now too, but we cannot affor ourselves more relics because constant lack of CP. Our only true unusable trash is Domina Liber Demonica. Fury of Deimos can benifit from Damage 2 too, but after Bolter Discipine he looks way better already. 

 

I really like Pyrokinesis - we need it. Psychic Onslaught cost drop is a must too. But I don't think that anyone will burn 3 CP to use them twice. 9 CP is usually our limit as mono-army.

 

I can share my view of changes, if anyone interested. 

[Waking Dreamer]

Your "Battle-forged Army Rules" would mean that bringing any non-GK units causes your units to lose Brotherhood of Psykers and Knights of Titan. Is that intentional, because right now you just get these rules for being Battle-forged and every unit in the detachment having the Grey Knights faction.

 

Psychic Chorus and its associated special rules are also worded in a way that you get them if your entire army (again, not detachment) contains any form of loyalist Space Marines - Codex, BA, SW, DA, DW. Did you mean to write detachment here, or do you intend to turn these rules off if you have Grey Knights fighting alongside Guard, Mechanicus, Sisters, Inquisitors, or Knights?

 

Okay yeah, with the wording - Knights of Titan, Brotherhood of Psykers and Prognostic Strike are intended for just a standard Battle-forge army (this includes allies of Imperium in their own detachments).

 

Psychic Chorus is intended to be added on for a Battle-forged army, with only other SM Chapters in their own detachments as allies. So no more Loyal 32 CP battery, Imperial Knights etc in your army. Makes more sense in the Lore too, as a GK would more likely work with other SM Chapters than they would show themselves in front of a group Imperial Guard for example.

 

The Incorruptible is for a battle-forged and pure/mono GKs army. 

 

^ Those are the initially intended levels of benefits.  Psychic Chorus could be moved to a strictly mono-GKs army leaving just 2 levels of benefits. Though they are currently structured similarly to C:SM battle doctrines, where as far as I know they can be still used in a battle-forge army with other SM Chapters in their own detachments as allies. It depends on the general feeling of people prefer. 

 

Is just 2 levels of benefits better (allies and then mono-GKs)? Would it be too strict? Should there still be an intermediate level of benefits? 

[Waking Dreamer]

 

Concerning the rules, I think, that making psybolt ammunition a Psychic power will make it auto-choice. Why throw a mortal wound at enemy unit or cast a psychic power, if you can make 20 HB shots from a minimum squad? It will make our army kind of "Drop and shoot everything to death" like Deathwatch now.

 

I see no point in buffing Banner of Refining Flame - it is already our best relic. And why Destroyer Relic need additional mortal wounds? It is OK as it is now too, but we cannot affor ourselves more relics because constant lack of CP. Our only true unusable trash is Domina Liber Demonica. Fury of Deimos can benifit from Damage 2 too, but after Bolter Discipine he looks way better already. 

 

I really like Pyrokinesis - we need it. Psychic Onslaught cost drop is a must too. But I don't think that anyone will burn 3 CP to use them twice. 9 CP is usually our limit as mono-army.

 

 

There would be times where using GoI (battlefield control), Sanctuary (survivability) etc. would be preferred. I also didnt want it to cost points for the upgrade (as changes with these rules was intended to keep with current points as is - to make units worth their points, rather than points drops nor making them better with a points hike), but it is possible to put some sort of limit to Psybolts if there are any ideas...?

 

Relic Hammer was our second worst relic after Liber Daemonica imo. True, we don't have nearly enough relic slots to reach the Daemon Hammer after getting the more useful ones anyway. But it was / is only +1D. In 8th Edition +1D is only equal to a master-crafted version of a regular weapon. That's it. It always seemed inconsistent for me that a supposed sacred, one-of-a-kind Relic of Titan was actually just a master-crafted version of our regular Daemon Hammers. To reach Relic Status of an army the wargear would have to be say (if Master-crafted) + some other bonus (preferably something unique / different to other relics in your army) imo.

 

You can only fit so many lascannons in a mono GK list. And if facing say a full Imperial Knights Army, or a SM army with 3 lascannon Predators etc. the option of having two of your GMNDKs unloading their 12 S8 AP-2 D2 shots at the same time - before the enemy armour / tanks get the chance to fire back (and probably take out at least one of your GMNDKs) can be clutch imo. It doesnt have to be used but if the option is there, it can give our GK army a little more flexibility in dealing with armour heavy armies.

 

EDIT: V1.1 up, made the wording for the Battle-forged rules clearer. Removed Relic Banner buff, and added Castellan Crowe MW buff to his Master Swordsman ability.

Edited August 21, 2019 by Waking Dreamer

[Yossarion]

 

I ended up using a chaplain to try the new litanies as well.

 

 

 

GK cannot benifit from Litanies of Battle, unless you homerule it. GK chaplains didn't recieve them, and allied SM chaplains cannot use them, because they only affect their own <Chapter> keyword.

 

 

We home ruled it. Same for all non codex space marine chapters.

[Holier Than Thou]

I have actually been inspired by Waking Dreamer's efforts, I still don't expect Games Workshop to put in 1% of the effort that we do but what the hell.

 

I've actually gone a step further than WD and tried to make a complete re-write, including points. Apologies though that I haven't made it look as nice as Waking Dreamer's.

 

Units

 

Hidden Content

HQ

 

Grand Master 115 points

Knows 2 powers plus 1 Utility, Casts 2, Denies 1

6" Aura re-roll 1s to Hit

 

Grand Master in Nemesis Dreadknight 160

Knows 2 powers plus 1 Utility, Casts 2, Denies 1

6" Aura re-roll 1s to Hit

 

Librarian 110

Knows 3 powers plus 1 Utility, Casts 2, Denies 2

6" Aura re-roll 1's for Psychic Tests

+1 to Deny the Witch within 24"

 

Brother Captain 100

Knows 2 powers plus 1 Utility, Casts 1, Denies 1

6" Aura re-roll 1's to Wound

 

Brotherhood Champion 85

Knows 1 power plus 1 Utility, Casts 1, Denies 1

Sword Stance - Re-roll all to hits in melee

Focus Stance - Never suffer modifiers to hit in melee

Shield Stance - Re-roll all failed saves in melee

 

Chaplain 100

Knows 1 power plus 1 Utility, Casts 1, Denies 1

6" Aura Re-roll Charges

 

Litanies

Furious Assault - Chaplain gets double attacks on Charge but all attacks at -1

Grim Resolve - Unit within 6" reduces all incoming damage by half, minimum 1

No Quarter - Unit within 6" can Advance and Charge

Focus the Mind - Unit within 6" rolls 3 dice for next Psychic Test

Purifying Storm - Unit within 6" adds 1 to number of shots of ranged weapon (after Rapid Fire bonuses, Incinerators become D6+1)

Shield of Faith - Unit within 6" ignores wounds on 5+

 

Techmarine 65

Knows 1 power plus 1 Utility, Casts 1, Denies 1

Servo-Harness increases Blessings of the Omnissiah to D3+1

May replace Servo-Harness with Conversion Beamer

 

Troops

 

Strike Squad 20 ppm

(Increase Leadership to 8)

Knows 1 power plus 1 Utility, Casts 1, Denies 1

 

Terminator Squad 30 ppm

(Increase Leadership to 8)

Knows 1 power plus 1 Utility, Casts 1, Denies 1

 

Elites

 

Purifier Squad 23 ppm

(Increase base attacks by 1)

Knows 1 power plus 1 Utility, Casts 1, Denies 1

 

Paladin Squad 40 ppm

Gain Bodyguard rule, can intercept shots for Grand Master, on 3+ take wound instead as long as within 3"

Knows 1 power plus 1 Utility, Casts 1, Denies 1

 

Dreadnought 70

May replace Assault Cannon with Heavy Incinerator or Heavy Psycannon, may replace Grey Knights Stormbolter with Incinerator

Knows 1 power plus 1 Utility, Casts 1, Denies 1

 

Venerable Dreadnought 90

May replace Assault Cannon with Heavy Incinerator or Heavy Psycannon, may replace Grey Knights Stormbolter with Incinerator

Knows 1 power plus 1 Utility, Casts 1, Denies 1

 

Apothecary 75

Knows 1 power plus 1 Utility, Casts 1, Denies 1

 

Brotherhood Ancient 85

Knows 1 power plus 1 Utility, Casts 1, Denies 1

 

Paladin Ancient 90

Knows 1 power plus 1 Utility, Casts 1, Denies 1

 

Fast Attack

 

Interceptor Squad 24 ppm

Knows 1 power plus 1 Utility, Casts 1, Denies 1

 

Heavy Support

 

Purgation Squad 20 ppm

Knows 1 power plus 1 Utility, Casts 1, Denies 1

 

Nemesis Dreadknight 110

Knows 1 power plus 1 Utility, Casts 1, Denies 1

 

All other entries are things we share with Space Marines that are not Psykers so points and rules for them are the same.

 

Weapons & Wargear

 

Hidden Content

 

Ranged Weapons

 

Grey Knights Stormbolter (Infantry/Dreadnoughts Only) 2 points

24" Strength 4, Rapid Fire 2, AP 0, Damage 1

 

Incinerator 10

9" Strength 6, Assault D6, AP -1, Damage 1, Auto-hit

 

Heavy Incinerator 20

12" Strength 6, Assault 2D6, AP -1, Damage 1, Auto-hit

 

Psilencer 5

24" Strength 4, Assault 6, AP 0, Damage 1, rolling 6+ to hit generates 2 hits instead of 1

 

Gatling Psilencer 20

24" Strength 4, Assault 12, AP 0, Damage 1, rolling 6+ to hit generates 2 hits instead of 1

 

Psycannon 10

24" Strength 7, Assault 3, AP -1, Damage 2, rolling 6+ to wound improves damage by 1 and AP by -1

 

Heavy Psycannon 20

24" Strength 8, Assault 6, AP -1, Damage 2, rolling 6+ to wound improves damage by 1 and AP by -1

 

Melee Weapons

 

The statistics of these weapons are improved by the Psychic prowess of the wielder. Adjust the base stats as follows.

 

Justicars add +1 Strength and -1 AP

Elites and HQs add +1 Strength, -1 AP and +1 Damage

Grandmasters and Librarians add +2 Strength, -2 AP and +2 Damage (add half these bonuses when using a Nemesis Daemonhammer or any Nemesis Dreadknight melee weapons)

 

Nemesis Force Sword 3

Strength User, AP -1, Damage 1, +1 to saves in melee

 

Nemesis Force Halberd 3

Strength User, AP -1, Damage 1, reduce incoming melee attacks from 1 enemy unit by 1 per Halberd in squad

 

Nemesis Force Falchions 3 single/5 pair

Strength User, AP -1, Damage 1, + 1 attack per Falchion

 

Nemesis Force Stave 3

Strength User, AP -1, Damage 1, re-roll failed saves in melee

 

Nemesis Force Daemonhammer 16/40 for Characters

Strength x 2, AP -3, Damage 3

 

Nemesis Dreadfists 10 single/20 pair

Strength x 2, AP -3, Damage D3, +1 attack if used in pair

 

Nemesis Greatsword 20

Strength +4, AP - 3, Damage D6

 

Nemesis Greathammer 30

Strength x 2, AP -4, Damage D6, -1 to hit, damage rolls of 1 or 2 count as 3

 

All other weapon options are things we share with Space Marines so rules and points are the same.

 

Wargear

 

Dreadknight Teleporter 30

Doubles movement in each Damage Bracket, allows a single Shunt move

 

 

Psychic Powers

 

Hidden Content

 

Each Power from the Sanctic Discipline can only be attempted once per Psychic Phase, each Utility Power can be attempted by every unit that has it

 

Sanctic Discipline

 

Hammerhand WC 5

+1 to wound rolls in melee until start of your next Psychic Phase

 

Gate of Infinity WC 6

Remove unit from battlefield and replace more than 9" from an enemy unit

 

Sanctuary WC 5

+1 to saving throws until start of your next Psychic Phase

 

Astral Aim WC 6

Unit does not need LOS to shoot at enemies, unit targeted gains no benefit from cover

 

Guiding Light WC 6

+1 to hit until start of your next Psychic Phase

 

The Emperor Protects WC 6

Enemies suffer -1 to hit when targeting this unit until start of your next Psychic Phase

 

Utility Powers

 

Praise the Machine Spirit WC 5 (Techmarine Only)

Restore 2 wounds to a damaged Grey Knights vehicle

 

Cleansing Flame WC 5 (Purifiers Only)

All enemy models engaged in melee with this unit suffer an automatic hit at strength 5, AP 0, Damage 1

 

Warp Quake WC 5

Enemies cannot enter the battlefield within 12" of this unit

 

Dark Excommunicatus WC 5

Choose a Daemon unit within 12" of this unit, they lose a God-Specific ability (ie, Disgustingly Resilient, Locus of Rage) of your choice until the start of your next Psychic Phase

 

Purity of Soul WC 5

This unit has a 5++ save versus Mortal Wounds until the start of your next Psychic Phase

 

Quicksilver WC 5

This unit may immediately move up to 3". If they were previously engaged in melee they may shoot at any enemy in range at -1 to hit and must charge the unit they disengaged from if it is still on the battlefield

 

 

Army Special Rules

 

Hidden Content

 

If your army is Battleforged, all Grey Knights Detachments gain the following abilities.

 

Brotherhood of Psykers +1 to Cast/Deny

Nemesis Strike Force All units held in Reserves may Deepstrike in Turn 1

Bane of Daemons Successful Invulnerable saves taken against wounds caused by Nemesis Force Weapons must be rerolled

 

If your army is Battleforged and all models have the Grey Knights Keyword, all Grey Knights Detachments gain the following abilities

 

Psychic Communion May choose to cast Sanctic powers at +2 WC, if successful the power affects all Grey Knights units in a 6" radius

Surgical Strike Units arriving on the battlefield from Deep Strike, the Gate of Infinity Psychic power or by Teleport Shunt may be set up more than 3 + D6" from enemy units

Psybolt Ammunition All Grey Knights Stormbolters are Strength 5

 

 

These changes I think bring us overall closer to the mid/high tier of power, and reinforces our background as being more of an elite force than hundreds of boots on the ground.

Edited August 21, 2019 by Holier Than Thou

[Ticaliation]

this is actually great. low chance any of at similar will get to any update we might get.

 

However.. with having the Stormbolters Pistol 4 in CC.. wouldnt Pistol 2 made more sense? just thinking.. you would shoot with wrist mounted bolter in CC here and there... but you would not go full auto (considering Storm bolters are rapid fire 2, 4 shots in full auto)... its still CC

[kronapaints]

this is actually great. low chance any of at similar will get to any update we might get.

 

However.. with having the Stormbolters Pistol 4 in CC.. wouldnt Pistol 2 made more sense? just thinking.. you would shoot with wrist mounted bolter in CC here and there... but you would not go full auto (considering Storm bolters are rapid fire 2, 4 shots in full auto)... its still CC

 

 

Maybe I'm missing something here, but I'm wondering why you don't think full auto would be used in CC? IRL that's literally the only time it's useful in shorter barrelled weapons due to recoil.

[Captain Coolpants]

Im loving most of this!

 

Some thoughts for me though.

 

I honestly don't like having a utility power to choose as well as a psychic power, I know its technically stronger, but its extra paperwork. Id rather just have unit specific abilities back, or just have more psychic powers and allow for multi casting.

 

Bane of deamons actually gives us a better bonus against them. But extra re-rolls just lengthens the game needlessly. Maybe just -1 to saves?

 

Really liking the psychic communion making any power an aura! But it really feels like a game change/clutch ability. That's probably better as a stratagem maybe?

 

And the purifiers cleansing flame ability, I see you reincarnated their old ability, its great against most armies, not too powerful at all. But as soon as you go against a horde army, it's completely broken.

 

Psilencers being assault is great, but i think id rather keep the d3 damage. Handier against primaris and other multiwounds and makes it a little more special than just a bolter with lots of shots.

 

 

Not too sure how I feel about the nemesis weapon changes.

 

I still feel like the falchions are auto include, and the helberds reducing attacks is largely useless, as by the time we're in combat, you're lucky to have 3 guys left out of your 5 man squad, and your enemy will likely have many more models anyway, so maybe just as they are now, extra strength.

 

Similar with the stave, i think its current abilities are better, granting an invulnerable save sets it apart from the sword more.

 

I think they should all remain D3 damage. But the extra strength and AP depending on psychic might is another homage to our old rules which I really like! And can be added on with a stratagem or power or something, where all units within X distance can use a nearby characters nemesis buff (can't think of a name other than psychic communion which is already being used haha)

Edited August 22, 2019 by Captain Coolpants

[Holier Than Thou]

Thanks for the feedback.

 

I can see your point about Bane of Daemons, maybe -1 to Invulnerable Saves is better.

 

I don’t think Psychic Communion is game-breaking. Each Sanctic Power can still only be attempted once per Psychic Phase so still not spammable, and will still need at least average roll to achieve.

 

Cleansing Flame is maybe too strong, maybe 2d6 auto-hits but then this makes it disproportionately strong against characters/vehicles, etc. Would an auto strength 4 hit be better?

 

I wanted to make all of the ranged weapons assault or rapid fire as we should be constantly on the move and so are generally penalised for having short range heavy weapons. My thoughts behind making the Psilencers Damage 1 rather than Damage D3 is, with AP0 most things with multiple wounds are shrugging off the shots anyway so the D3 is never used. I feel we benefit more from forcing more saves than hoping to get lucky with the one shot that actually gets through. I also feel it helps to differentiate between it and the Psycannon and gives them both a preferred role.

 

I see your point about the Halberds, with our current situation I think you’re right. But with the proposed changes I’d like to think there’s more chance of us reaching combat with a far more intact squad than we do at the moment.

 

I’ve deliberately tried to avoid tying things into Stratagems as, my proposed changes actually make our guys stronger but a bit more expensive so we would be even more starved of Command Points because to get the best bonuses we cannot ally in cheap Guard Battalions.

[Waking Dreamer]

 

this is actually great. low chance any of at similar will get to any update we might get.

 

However.. with having the Stormbolters Pistol 4 in CC.. wouldnt Pistol 2 made more sense? just thinking.. you would shoot with wrist mounted bolter in CC here and there... but you would not go full auto (considering Storm bolters are rapid fire 2, 4 shots in full auto)... its still CC

 

Maybe I'm missing something here, but I'm wondering why you don't think full auto would be used in CC? IRL that's literally the only time it's useful in shorter barrelled weapons due to recoil.

There is logic behind both of those train of thoughts.

 

Original idea had it at pistol 4, but was then dropped to pistol 2 as to represent the other factors that take place during CC. Such as the GK wielding his own weapon in confrontation against his opponent's melee strikes. So while technically in rapid fire range, since the GK is within striking distance from the opponents melee weapons, they would need to divide the attention between his bolter shots and melee strikes. Though, majority here preferred the original 4 shots while one person thought just 1 shot would make the most sense.

 

If storm bolter combat was a passive ability and available at all turns of the game, Id probably have it as Pistol 2 as well. However, under these proposed rules in having the ability needing to be activated, and currently only once per battle - Pistol 4 seems more effective / worth it. Also, fluff-wise they are using their storm bolters in the middle of combat through a collective surge of psychic prowess, that is, for this one moment in the battle all of their precog. and martial skills are dialled up to 11! The Grey Knights are so in-tuned that they are literally holding down the trigger, and pointing with their left (bolter) arm - while striking and slashing away with their right (weapon) arm. Rule of cool!

 

Edited August 23, 2019 by Waking Dreamer

[TheCastigator]

Just want to say I love the psychic chorus idea, very fluffy.

[Waking Dreamer]

Just want to say I love the psychic chorus idea, very fluffy.

It was inspired by the First War of Armageddon. When you need to stop a Daemon Primarch, his retinue of 12 Bloodthirsters, countless Khorne daemons and Chaos space marine Berzerkers....a strike force of only 109 Grey Knight Terminators had to be greater - showing what the Grey Knights were truly capable of. I wanted some of that legacy / capability translated into these rules, which is partly why they still have access to it with ADEPTUS ASTARTES and ORDO MALLEUS units included. As they fought on the same battlefield with the GKs in the lore.

 

Oddly enough, it does make me wonder how a mono-GK army with these rules stacks up against a pure-Ultra army with their own Primarch Guilliman and maybe T1 deep-striking drop pods (looking to be the new hotness). Which is why I have endeavoured to make these rules as "plug-and-play" into our current codex a possible. The Incorruptible vs the Scions of Guilliman! Let them fight!

Edited August 24, 2019 by Waking Dreamer

[Captain Coolpants]

We just need someone from GW who cares the slightest iota enough to say "hey these guys have good ideas".

[Waking Dreamer]

Just uploaded the latest revisions in the OP.

 

Latest changes :

• Moved Prognostic Strike to a mono-GK army only buff.
• Re-worded Psychic Onslaught and pryokinesis stratagem for more cohesion.
• Re-worded Psychic Chorus for clarification (you can use the 3 abilities once each per battle).
• Added Psychic Resurgence Stratagem (repeat a Psychic Chorus ability in the same battle) for 2CP.
• Increased Rites of Consecration/psybolt ammo to a 4+ roll to use Bolter Discipline/rapidfire range + psybolt ammo is a standard GK tactic. I’d rather not take that away like they did for DW (which some DW players still complain about). Though I agree there needs to be some sort of alternative cost. At the moment, the best halfway point is costing the unit an opportunity of casting 1 psychic power and a 50% chance to activate it. Statistically, half of the units that try the ability won’t get it, which is a fair enough barrier to prevent spamming the ammo imo.
• Re-worded Malcador’s Providence to GKs getting +1 to saving throws (instead of enemy -1 to hit), BUT it’s not a cover save. Meaning abilities that ignore cover saves will not affect it.
• Re-worded Psi weaponry abilities for clarification (bonuses only affect the shots where the 6s are rolled. They are not cumulative.)

[Matt_149]

Have you sent this to GW? The rules seem great and not at all OP well done for not falling into that trap