Codex: Grey Knights Amendments Project

[Waking Dreamer]

Have you sent this to GW? The rules seem great and not at all OP well done for not falling into that trap

 

Not yet actually, I was hoping for some "play-testing"  feedback with the updated rules, to see if there could be any added fine-running required.

[Andarius the Red]

Hmm, interesting. I might test these rules to give them a feel.

[Waking Dreamer]

Just wondering, what do people think of the mono-GKs army able to deepstrike turn 1?

 

Is it too powerful and if so how can it be softened?

 

Compared to the newer SM Supplements does it need to be removed, or is it on par for a fluffy while strong GK rule?

[Andarius the Red]

It's certainly on par with the other codices in terms of fluff, but if you feel it should be softened up or removed, you could have it tweaked where Grey Knight forces in deep strike reserve can arrive on turn one if so needed but in doing so cannot assault on the turn they arrive.

[Trollbeard]

I don’t think it’s too powerful, we are mostly armed with stormbolters, and have to spend 2CP to get some ap on them. With proper screening and opponent can more or less dictate where and what your GK can charge. And you come in before the shooting phase so you don’t have the ability to clear a path first.

[Waking Dreamer]

With some more feedback and play-testing, I updated the rules in the OP with the changes described below.

 

- Included an additional 6 Sanctic Discipline powers (psychic combo time!).

- Psybolt ammo failure rate and penalty was a little too high. So, increased the success rate to a roll of a 3+ for units with 5 models or less.

- Reduced Storm Bolter Combat to Pistol 2 in melee (it's possible to buff them with the extra psychic now, so it evens out).  

- Castellan Crowe was too strong. Reduced his melee MW output to unmodified 6 to wound rolls (still pretty good tho).

- Added limitations to T1 deepstriking units. Now it's TERMINATOR units only, and outside the enemy's deployment zone (Multiple 10-man strike squad w/ Psybolt ammo was pretty brutal for a "free" T1  in rapid-fire range shooting).

- Reduced the additional WC requirement for multiple casts to successful casts only (better scaling for games over 2K points).

 

Of particular note:

 

Lawrence from Tabletop Tactics was so gracious enough to look over these rules a while back and share some of his thoughts.

 

"...I’ve had a read of your rules and have to say that I love them. They’re very well thought out and I feel encompass the fluff of the Grey Knights, whilst also addressing some of our major issues in the game. The one thing I would change is the Psybolt ammunition. I think Rites of Consecration is a little harsh, as it’s easy to fail that 4+ and then you’ve also lost a psychic power...."

 

Since, as we know he is a prominent person in the WH40K online / YT community (receiving new releases and models earlier for review), as well as a veteran tournament champion/player, he may find himself in a position to provide suggestions more directly to the rules designers about GKs. So you could maybe consider this a small (yet very awesome) step closer to GW acknowledging / incorporating these types of rules "sometime" in the GK future...?

 

- So, any notable tactical combos with particular GK units and these new psychic powers?

- with these rules are Grey Knights finally ready to face down against the likes of mono-Iron Hands, Ultramarines w/ Guilliman, psychic Eldar, Thousand Sons w/ Magnus or Death Guard w/ Mortarion...?!

Edited November 22, 2019 by Waking Dreamer

[Matt_149]

Well done mate, you are only hope ;)

[Waking Dreamer]

Well done mate, you are only hope

 

Well, if all the stars align we GK players maybe witnesses to a miraculous event, after all:

 

With awesome guys like Lawrence doing the God-Emperor's work:

 

"In any case, thanks for sharing and if I were to have any influence over the rules writing process, rest assured I would keep your ideas here in mind "

 

The balances of fate might finally be tipped in our favor.  

 

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Also, for these suggested rules I was thinking some of the stronger psychic combos could really beef up our toughest units.

 

For example:

1. A GK Landraider with Might of Titan + Warp Shrouding + Second Sight = BS2+ T9 W16 2+/5+++(MW only), enemy -1 to hit for shooting Landraider.

 

Now, your 350pt vehicle model (not including embarked units), doesn't necessarily get blown up on the enemy's first turn of shooting.

 

Or for an infantry unit:

2. A 10-man Paladin squad with Might of Titan + Warp Shrouding + Sanctuary = T5 W30 2+/4++/5+++(MW only), enemy -1 to hit for shooting. So if you remember the recurring complaint that the newer Custodes, becoming the premier hyper-elite army, and with actual rules to make them feel like their elite lore...I think with these psychic buffs, GKs would be able to stand up right next to them!

 

Of course this is going back to 5ed-like Paladinstar units, with a minimum investment of around 600+pts (including a GK Librarian to cast the 2 other psychic powers required), but it might actually be worth it now...where the sight of your 10-man paladin unit opposite your opponent, might incite a little fear from them again....just a little - as it should. 

Edited November 24, 2019 by Waking Dreamer

[Sweetcurse]

So what if we had smite similar to kill team. In kill team, you smite only twice a turn but it actually kills often. So what if we had less smites instead of more but way more deadly. That the only thing in KT that makes GKs worth it.

[Waking Dreamer]

I got some feedback from another GK player that was shared recently using these House Rules against a moderate Tau army (based around the Start Collecting Tau boxset), with a full unit of Broadsides and some additional Stealth suits:

 

-------------------------

Gary_1986 wrote:

 

So, had second game with Knights, using the House Rules vs. a rather orthodox Tau Empire force, so no Riptide Spam. VP win for Knights but no walk-over.

 

Warp Shrouding is good, I think it should be a default, passive power to be honest.

 

Malcador's Providence was rather useful at the point I used it.

 

Rites of Consecration was alright, I still support Knights being issued with PSYBOLT ammunition as standard without requiring this mind, I don't think it would overpower them though it might result in them being a little on the cheap side.

 

PSYCHIC ONSLAUGHT with Purgation Squad was a decent combination, the AP bump more than the Strength bump though, against Tau those guns are wounding on 3+ as it is. PYROKINESIS was rather effective with Incinerators too on a second Purgation squad, the extra range helps a lot.

 

Second Sight is also effective, resulting in a to hill roll of 2+.

 

Think more emphasis needs to be put on the Knights mental abilities, it is their greatest strength and what the Chapter was founded for, to fight the battles no one else could. But these House Rules in this little engagement give me hope that the upcoming PA book might make some big differences.

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Nice to see a GK player manage a hard fought victory against an otherwise loosing army match up the (ultimate goal for these House Rules). You still need to fight smart and tactically, but when you do, the synergy of all the rules could actually give you the win now.

 

And to think a Purgation Squad equipped with Incinerators doing some actual work? Who would imagine in these of 8ed...?! lol

 

As with his last sentiment, maybe with PA4 more GK players will enthusiastically field GK armies again similarly to these House Rules....

[jaxom]

I just stumbled upon this thread, great stuff! Do you mind if I share a link to the GK stuff I put up in the Homegrown section?

[Waking Dreamer]

I just stumbled upon this thread, great stuff! Do you mind if I share a link to the GK stuff I put up in the Homegrown section?

 

Sure, go ahead.

[jaxom]

Thank you!

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/360629-grey-knights/

 

I got distracted by stuff so I hadn't done Stratagems and Relics, yet.