Whirlwind yes or no?

[Mcha0s92]

Hi i see that the popularity of the whirlwind has increased and i think they are good, how do you field them? Just 1 or more?

[Malakithe]

Im adding 3 in place of one of my Executioners. They are cheap, great range, and dont need LOS. First turn in DevDoct they will be hurting stuff for sure. And because of how cheap they are if your opponent dedicates their shooting or deepstriking to take them out then its a good cheap distraction. As Ultras they cant be locked in combat either....fall back, then blast the attacking unit with everyone. 

[Captain Idaho]

Whirlwinds are powerful in the game now, since they can really benefit from the Devastator Doctrine yet are dead cheap.

[Mcha0s92]

Do you prefer to use the castellan or vengeance round?

[Captain Idaho]

I like the Vengeance rounds. AP-2 under the Devastator Doctrine and D2 makes it quite formidable.

[Mcha0s92]

I will give it a try thank you

[dice4thedicegod]

Yeah, devastator doctrine really helps them. I think the big winner is the Castellan. Going from ap 0 to -1 gives it 50% more effectiveness against MEQ and against 1W targets it will really shine.

[zero88]

Yeah, devastator doctrine really helps them. I think the big winner is the Castellan. Going from ap 0 to -1 gives it 50% more effectiveness against MEQ and against 1W targets it will really shine.

Except that a TFC is better than a Castellan against your common T4 targets. 4D3 is better than 2D6, both are wounding on 3s, TFC hits on 2s though.

 

For that reason, if you're taking a whirlwind I'd go for the Autocannon missiles

[Kallas]

 

Yeah, devastator doctrine really helps them. I think the big winner is the Castellan. Going from ap 0 to -1 gives it 50% more effectiveness against MEQ and against 1W targets it will really shine.

Except that a TFC is better than a Castellan against your common T4 targets. 4D3 is better than 2D6, both are wounding on 3s, TFC hits on 2s though.

 

For that reason, if you're taking a whirlwind I'd go for the Autocannon missiles

 

And the TFC is AP-1 base, vs the Castellan's AP0 base; so the TFC is hitting more accurately, averages more shots (with the same maximum and a higher minimum), wounding the same, and (under Devastator Doctrine) will get AP-2.

 

Averages vs MEQs:

TFC: 8 shots: 8*0.833*0.66*0.66 = 2.9 damage/92pts (31.7pts/wound)

WC: 7 shots: 7*0.66*0.66*0.5 = 1.53 damage/80pts (52.3pts/wound)

 

If you're wanting a platform that can perform against T5-7, then the Vengeance is better thanks to the base AP-1 and Damage 2:

Aggressors: T5/3+:

Cas: 7*0.66*0.66*0.5 = 1.53 damage/80pts (52.3pts/wound)

Ven: 4*0.66*0.66*0.66*2 = 2.3 damage/85pts (37pts/wound)

TFC: 8*0.833*0.5*0.66 = 2.2 damage/92pts (41.8pts/wound)

 

Ravager T6/5++:

Cas: 7*0.66*0.5*0.66 = 1.16 damage/80pts (69pts/wound)

Ven: 4*0.66*0.66*0.66*2 = 2.3 damage/85pts (37pts/wound)

TFC: 8*0.833*0.33*0.66 = 1.45 damage/92pts (63.5pts/wound)

 

The Castellan is just unfortunately placed, stat-wise, between the TFC and Vengeance. Let's not also forget the Techmarine Gunner, who comes along at only +12pts over the Castellan Whirlwind (80pts -> the TFC+Techmarine's 92pts). And then add in the TFC's Tremor Shells and it's not a contest. If you're desperate for 12pts, I'd recommend finding it somewhere else.

 

Basically, if you're bringing Whirlwinds, bring Vengeance; otherwise, TFCs.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I’d take the TFC and it has a smaller foot print plus the movement nerfing strat can be a thing .

[dice4thedicegod]

 

Yeah, devastator doctrine really helps them. I think the big winner is the Castellan. Going from ap 0 to -1 gives it 50% more effectiveness against MEQ and against 1W targets it will really shine.

Except that a TFC is better than a Castellan against your common T4 targets. 4D3 is better than 2D6, both are wounding on 3s, TFC hits on 2s though.

 

For that reason, if you're taking a whirlwind I'd go for the Autocannon missiles

Well, yeah, if you add in TFC then that’s different.

 

I was making more of a comment of:

- previously, the lack of any ap had made the castellen iffy

- whether castellen or vengeance is better depends on targets. Primaris, you want the vengeance. Drukhari/Aeldari, you probably want the castellen.

[Ishagu]

Vengeance round Whirlwind is a big winner, yes.

 

If you use the shoot twice Strat you're getting similar performance to a Knight Helverin for half the cost.

[Aspecti]

So, three Whirlwinds of either flavor parked next to a Techmarine / TFC who has the Seal of Oath relic, giving them full rerolls to hit and to wound against a single target you choose at the beginning of the game. 6D6 / 6D3 shots + 4D3 from the TFC, rerolling hit & wound and benefiting from the Devastator doctrine without LOS sounds pretty good to me for removing a major threat. Gonna try it out this weekend at a tournament :)