Apothecaries

[Bukimimaru]

Hey guys, I'm back with more questions about the new dex. 

 

I assume this was the case in the last codex too, as I've not used them in this edition before, but apothecaries seems to be a bit useless now.

Back in last edition they dished out feel no pain, but it seems now the heal d3 lost wounds or revive a dead model on a 4+.

 

For 60 points, you get a single model that has a 50/50 chance to bring back a dead model each turn. 

I originally thought they might be good to run with a squad of flamer-aggressors, but at 35 points a model including wargear, so you can almost buy 2 argressors, which will be more wounds than an apothecary is likely to heal. 

 

I'm probably missing something important (see my Stalker pattern bolter thread from yesterday ;) ) but I don't see the value in these guys.

Anyone able to slap me with the imperial truth, or are they as usless as I think at first glance? 

[quasistellar]

Oh they're even more useless than before IMO, which is REALLY sad because the primaris apothecary model is awesome.

 

Why would you ever take one instead of simply taking another model of the thing you might heal? The 50/50 chance to literally do nothing in a game where you only activate 5-7 times is a 100% death sentence for ever being included in a list aside from just liking the model.

[Bukimimaru]

You are right about the model, I *love* the Primaris sculpt, which is why I bought one the other day.

Then I saw the rules... :(

[Mr4Minutes]

They’re very list dependent. In the Imperial Fist w/ Centurion list they’re key. In lists where a specific unit does most of the lifting reviving models or just bringing one back to full wounds is important.

 

But I think on more general list the points are better spent on additional bodies. Because the apoth can only benefit a single unit I feel he’s never in the right place when I need him.

[NatBrannigan]

I'm a big fan of the model as well but... yeah.

 

I'm planning on 2 units of Centurions and was looking at an Apothacary to go with them but I can't think of any other situation where it's not just worth just buying more troops. Bit like the Guardsman in a Chimera issue. Why on earth am I buying a tank to protect my cheap Guard Squad when I can just buy 2 or 3 more Guard Squads instead? The answer is because I like Chimeras, but it's certainly not making the most of the codex.

 

Even with Centurions I'm now thinking an Ancient would be better for about the same price so those dying Centurions are getting a last round of shooting off. The ancient would also be useful elsewhere next to Hellblasters etc.

[quasistellar]

After I posted I just remembered centurions going up to 4 wounds and they’re JUST expensive enough that MAYBE taking an apothecary instead of another centurion could be worth it if you just can’t spare the points.

 

Even if they lifted the restriction when they fail to revive the unit might not be enough to make them decent, as the primaris one just has a 16” pistol.

 

I’m actually really surprised they made no changes to apothecaries in the new codex. Makes me wonder if one of the supplements will have a stratagem or something to make them less useless.

[Dracos]

^this^

 

... and pretty much the same logic for the Ancient. It has to focus on a particularly deadly unit with Uber expensive models to get the use out of it. Make it a key part of your game plan or just enjoy the aesthetics of the model.

[crazyterran]

They are cheap and go in the elites slot for your Brigade, I guess.

 

Of course, you could always take Stormbolter/Storm Shield Command Squad or Honor Guard, since Honor Guard are shield drones with two wounds now. 

[Finkmilkana]

^this^

 

... and pretty much the same logic for the Ancient. It has to focus on a particularly deadly unit with Uber expensive models to get the use out of it. Make it a key part of your game plan or just enjoy the aesthetics of the model.

The ancient is kinda vindicated by the chapter specific banner relics, +1 s or +1 A can both be quite powerful. Maybe some of the remaining chapters will get similarly powerful relics for apothecaries? Like IH improving the FNP by one or something.

 

Of course, you could always take Stormbolter/Storm Shield Command Squad or Honor Guard, since Honor Guard are shield drones with two wounds now.

Aren’t they still far worse by not being able to turn multi damage weapons into a single MW? Edited September 3, 2019 by Finkmilkana

[crazyterran]

I thought they changed Honor Guard into turning an attack into a MW, rather than a wound into a MW.

[Kallas]

Space Marine bodyguards now turn all damage inflicted from an intercepted attack into an equal amount of mortal wounds, regardless of whether the unit can sustain that much damage or not.

 

Edit: Index Honour Guard are unchanged, as far as I'm aware. Will need to double check the various FAQs/Erratas.

Edited September 4, 2019 by Kallas

[crazyterran]

Space Marine bodyguards now turn all damage inflicted from an intercepted attack into an equal amount of mortal wounds, regardless of whether the unit can sustain that much damage or not.

 

Edit: Index Honour Guard are unchanged, as far as I'm aware. Will need to double check the various FAQs/Erratas.

 

I will have to re-read the UM ones, I thought they were slightly different. 

[Subtleknife]

I would much prefer if they granted a 5plus fnp...

[Link2edition]

Space Marine bodyguards now turn all damage inflicted from an intercepted attack into an equal amount of mortal wounds, regardless of whether the unit can sustain that much damage or not.

 

Edit: Index Honour Guard are unchanged, as far as I'm aware. Will need to double check the various FAQs/Erratas.

This is why Black Templar do company veterans the best, paired with their vigilus detachment. That 5+ save on mortal wounds is nice.

 

 

They’re very list dependent. In the Imperial Fist w/ Centurion list they’re key. In lists where a specific unit does most of the lifting reviving models or just bringing one back to full wounds is important.

 

But I think on more general list the points are better spent on additional bodies. Because the apoth can only benefit a single unit I feel he’s never in the right place when I need him.

Yeah, I run a drop pod list where everything drops in a big mob turn 1: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358211-2000pt-tourney-drop-pod-templar-v2-and-v3/

 

 

 

When you are running something that has massed models with good shooting like that, both the banner and the Apothecary become game changers. I went undefeated in a tournament last month by using the banner and lots of devastators to shoot the enemy army to death on THEIR turn. In this situation I ended up using the CP reroll for the apothecary a lot to get one of those 33 point grav cannon models back up, or 35 point multi meltas.

 

Granted I am only using the 50 point power armor Doc, not the primaris one.