Speculation about Chapter Upgrade Sprues

[jaxom]

I can't remember where I saw it, but I thought someone in one of the discussions either here or the other thread mentioned a rumor that the chapter upgrade sprues are also where we'd see the pieces needed to make chapter specific units or that the chapter specific units were going to be upgrade sprues. If that's the case, here's what I think we may see (starting with what's known):

 

1. Ultramarines - Tyranic War Vets don't require new sprues, low hanging fruit, fluffy. Ultramarines are the codex chapter so it makes sense they don't have anything wonky.
2. White Scars - Khan on Bike has a model and (regardless of how people want things to go) the Space Marines are trending towards infantry characters so this does stand out. They've been reliant on codex options for bikes and transports since forever. There's not much to ever suggest their bikers operate or are armed differently just that they tend to use them more. If there are ever Primaris bikes then I don't expect otherwise; however the WS upgrade sprue includes two chainsword arms, it is possible a 3 man unit (popular with specialist primaris squds) would be able to have a sergeant with sergeant weapon and two with chainswords (where other chapters would only have default unit options).
3. Raven Guard - Shrike's lightning claws open some interesting speculation options. With CAD it would be pretty straightforward to have phobos lightning claws ready to place on the RG upgrade sprue for vanguard sergeants. Reivers with lightning claws for a unique unit, possibly with grav-jumppacks?
4. Imperial Fists - Separate release of the upgrade sprue from the Supremecy Force box. Because of this low hanging fruit and the very codex nature of the IF organization and lack of other weirdness in their culture I don't think they'll be getting anything else other than a character. Lysander is a decent bet for personalized gravis-reminiscent (like how Shrike is phobos-adjacent) with hammer and shield. EDIT: The Kantor model is fantastic; I think a Primaris Corteaz (because how is he not the first CF to beg to be the guinea pig) is a possibility. BT real-talk time: the BT are rule-of-cool from a narrative and army list perspective, but it seems it's the models that are driving codex design. I don't think BT will get a full Primaris version of the Crusader squad unless it is literally Intercessors and Scouts in a single unit with no unusual weapon options; I have evidence, there's nothing to suggest it, but I worry BT fans are being set up for disappointment by speculators thinking narratively. I do think the BT character model will be a Primaris Emperor's Champion because it would avoid Rubiconing anyone while not being a "new" character to introduce.
5. Iron Hands - We know they're getting the Forge Father and people have talked about the IH thunder hammer in the codex pictures. I expect their upgrade sprue to have cybernetics that can be slotted into multple types of units; whole arm replacements would be the simplest option. I could see them getting something for Aggressors to make it more unique, like chainfists (chain add-on snapped into where gun/flamer mount is) and a new shoulder mount option. If I were rule-of-cooling how awesome would Aggressors with chainfists and force field projectors (mounted on shoulders) be for a T5 3W 3+/4++ unit be for the hardiest of First Founding chapters? However, it seems unlikely.
6. Salamanders - Primaris chapter master is my expectation. They haven't had a Tu'Shan model yet so it'd be simple enough. Equally, move along the Vulkan relic plot and have a new He'Stan. Similar to IH (and equally unlikely), Aggressors would be a fitting place for something new, like melta-weaponry snapping into the gun mount. A melta-weapon on the upgrade sprue as a sergeant option or new squad option could also work.

Edited August 31, 2019 by jaxom

[Schlitzaf]

Here are the things Templar’s could kit based on current sprews:

Current Datasheets-

EChampion

Helbrecht

Grimaldus

Cenobytes

Crusader Squad (No Kit, but used Upgrade, Scout + Tactical)

 

Datasheetless Models Kits:

Sword Brothern (Finecast Kit)

 

Potential/Wishlisty Datasheets (in order of wishlisty)

Crusader Bike Squad (see Crusader Squad)

Castallen Draco

Neophyte Ancient

Durandal Dreadnought

 

So based on the fact the following Kits got unindexed, remove from codex and rules again:

Tyrannic War

Khan on Bike

Honor Gaurd

 

Tyrannic War where Index legal Units but not in the current codex. So porting them to the Supplement is evidence for “Webstore Only Archaic index Units” getting main book rules. Archaic index units getting rules is evidence for likes of certain Webstore only essentially narrative units getting rules again.

 

Khan on Bike was two things, it was a rename of the on SM Cpt on Bike model on Webstore and White Scars only unit previously represented in rules reasonably by another Datasheet (Cpt on Bike). This the best evidence for Sword Brothern getting new rules again. Currently Sword Brothern are best represented by Company Veterans (see Vigilus). If Vigilus is folded in that means it’s highly likely we’ll see BT get a restoration of our Sword Brothern as rules. For what rules that will be is another question.

 

Honor Guard, is another example of models on sprew = only model that exist. This be the biggest strike against any truly new datasheet for Templars beside Sword Brothern. The only other reasonable datasheet we could get now is Biker Crusaders under the same concept of Crusader Squads. No Kit, but basically Datasheet built with the idea that it’s made from combining a Biker and Scout Biker Kit plus our Upgrade Kit.

 

—————

The other three listed units;

Castallen Draco only one of those 3 to ever have a kit. And went made to order at tail end of 7th. So we could see him get spiritseer’d.

 

Neophyte Ancient was an option in 4th Edition Codex no one ever took. A special upgrade in Helbrecht’s Command Squad. It be a model done in vein of like anniversary Marine. Never had a kit or a model.

 

Durandal Dreadnought of the four old BT UU with no rules, no kits or otherwise is the most wishlisty. Because it was a Furioso Dread for Templars because we had a pic of said Furioso Dread in codex but no way to take it. It never had rules in the main book or wide release, it was in specifically a French White Dwarf. Mechanically speaking Ironclads are Durandal’s for practical concern.

[jaxom]

If Space Wolves can have a dreadnought with an axe and shield then how great would it be to have a BT dreadnought with sword and shield or two-handed sword?

[RandomMarine]

" a rumor that the chapter upgrade sprues are also where we'd see the pieces needed to make chapter specific units or that the chapter specific units were going to be upgrade sprues"

 

Yeah that was me I was just spit balling tbh. The idea was that after the gravis units get released they would then update the codex but not the supplements and then as they released the updated supplements they would release new units that would be

buy this basic unit and a £15 sprue that would contain additional body parts designed to fit the basic unit but turn it into something new, like aggressors + IH sprue would create a Helfather unit,

[Lemondish]

" a rumor that the chapter upgrade sprues are also where we'd see the pieces needed to make chapter specific units or that the chapter specific units were going to be upgrade sprues"

 

Yeah that was me I was just spit balling tbh. The idea was that after the gravis units get released they would then update the codex but not the supplements and then as they released the updated supplements they would release new units that would be

buy this basic unit and a £15 sprue that would contain additional body parts designed to fit the basic unit but turn it into something new, like aggressors + IH sprue would create a Helfather unit,

I've heard the same rumour and it wasn't from you, for what it's worth... ;) Edited September 1, 2019 by Lemondish

[Brother Casman]

I've split this from the general topic so we can speculate about future upgrade sprues

[Lemondish]

I don't know why they'd do it because there's nothing about them today that isn't already achieved by Intercessors, but I want Sternguard to live on in some way. The spot you use to select the magazine for the relevant bolt rifles are possible opportunities to expand weapon variants. Looks like that'll probably be true of the carbines moving forward, too. 

 

Though how would they work? Combis with the secondary weapon slapped to the side or mounted to the top of the rifle? Might be too bulky to fit.

 

Ultimately, new unit variants provided through an upgrade sprue where the data sheet can reside in the new supplements instead of needing to exist in the main codex is a pretty neat way to expand a few of these chapters, so I like the idea even if it's only rumours and despite the only example we have so far being a standard upgrade sprue. 

Edited September 4, 2019 by Lemondish

[Ishagu]

I think a sprue with a bunch of chainswords and cc weapons to make an Intercessors-Crusader squad for BT would be quite easy to do.

 

The same sprue could have the parts needed to make a Lieutenant into a new Emperor's Champion.

[Marshal Reinhard]

No, the champion would need to be his own kit. A simple upgrade wouldn't do. Agreed on a sprue to make Tacticus Crusaders though.

[Ishagu]

I think Helbrecht is a must as a new Primaris hero. Grimaldus maybe not, but he needs a rule buff similar to Cassius.

 

The emperor's champion in the lore is a marine who is "chosen" and has visions, and his model isn't particularly flashy beyond his sword, but they could go either way I suppose.

Edited September 5, 2019 by Ishagu

[Marshal Reinhard]

That armour is the Armour of Faith, and is among the finest pieces of artificer armor available to the chapter, along with one of the priceless blackswords. 

 

They may not seem so flashy to you, but it will absolutely not do to just be a simple upgrade on a normal intercessor.

[Marshal Rohr]

When the EC model was released, his armor was distinct and baroque. 

[Lemondish]

I'm convinced.

 

EC needs to maintain a unique look. Perhaps done in such a way that it is unclear if he's Primaris or Firstborn?

[Marshal Reinhard]

Eh, I'm fine with it being a Primaris model that's clearly based on tacticus armor, clearly wearing its hallmarks and so on. But it it should also be augmented/modified to such a degree that goes beyond what's doable in an upgrade sprue intended to be used on an unspecified tacticus wearing model. Model needs unique greaves, vambraces, a chest without the chest eagle, an inspired pose. I could see an EC kit instead of like the big threes unique lieutenants.

[Lemondish]

Valrak posted some rumours from a source that was accurate about the Imperial Fist box over the last holiday season with another sign that the rumours of Raven Guard and Iron Hands coming next are true. 

 

The source also said the Iron Hands upgrade sprue was his favourite.