Runic Awakening: Speculation

[Oshikai]

Of course, but then, it says "Speculation" in the Thread Title .  Just hope that I will even be able to get my Hands on that Book, Shops closed down, gonna have to shop Online

Edited March 19, 2020 by Oshikai

[Gree]

Just getting Combat Doctrines ported over seems lazy. I would have liked to see the Wolves get something more unique, or at least get their Doctrines renamed or something. Getting regular Combat Doctrines implies to me they now follow the Codex Astartes.

Edited March 19, 2020 by Gree

[PeteySödes]

Just getting Combat Doctrines ported over seems lazy. I would have liked to see the Wolves get something more unique, or at least get their Doctrines renamed or something. Getting Combat Doctrines implies they now follow the Codex Astartes.

 

That was addressed in the article. It has less to do with adherence to the codex and more with Astartes ways of waging war. I think it safe to say the Codex Astartes doesn't cover berserking werewolves still so the sky is still in place.

[Gree]

 

Just getting Combat Doctrines ported over seems lazy. I would have liked to see the Wolves get something more unique, or at least get their Doctrines renamed or something. Getting Combat Doctrines implies they now follow the Codex Astartes.

 

That was addressed in the article. It has less to do with adherence to the codex and more with Astartes ways of waging war. I think it safe to say the Codex Astartes doesn't cover berserking werewolves still so the sky is still in place.

 

I read that, I thought that was a lazy justification, especially in light of the original fluff blurb concerning the Doctrines.

 

Combat Doctrines

When the Adeptus Astartes fight according to the tenets of the Codex Astartes they employ a strict set of combat doctrines to eliminate the enemy. After pounding the foe with heavy weapons, warriors advance to lay down a hail of bolter fire before charging forth with chainswords roaring to finish the foe. pg.109

[PeteySödes]

Well i wont argue that. 

[Zephaniah Adriyen]

They eat their brains and learn from it. I think there is even precedent in was it Blood of Asaheim? All Marines can do that if need be, this is the first Time there is a rules incentive. I like it.

Yeeeees, I think this is the first time Astartes cannibalism for the gaining of knowledge has rules. Maybe we'll see acid-spitting sometime (poor Fists).

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

Did I miss some buffs to our shooting game?

The first two doctrines that we didn't have before do buff it

[lonewolf81]

It will be a litany 100%...no way are keeping both litanies and rerolls

It will be a litany 100%...no way we are keeping both litanies and rerolls

[Bryan Blaire]

Gree, I had already shown in the thread that GW immediately started eroding that particular Doctrine fluff immeadiately - it basically says “Doctrines are how the Astartes wage war” in the Blood of Baal PA, and then in the Ritual of the Damned PA, it doesn’t even give a fluff blurb for the Doctrines at all for the Dark Angels. So while GW May have started with the “Doctrines = Codex Astartes” concept, they almost immediately abandoned it in favor of giving all Chapters the same doctrines as an “Astartes way of war” concept.

 

That fluff part I don’t really have a problem with, the use of heavy weapons, then advancing to mid-range fire-fights, then to close combat range makes sense given how Astartes of all stripes (and other fur patterns as appropriate) are equipped (especially since GW has apparently abandoned, for the time being, any Chapter specific armament of squads barring named Characters for Primaris).

 

I do have a problem with the fact that there is apparently zero effort made by GW to even provide fluff on how divergent Chapters might utilize/structure standard Primaris squads into their orders of battle, an acknowledgement of a different advancement structure or equipment utilization, or even naming conventions on anything new at all - that’s my problem with how GW is handling the fluff right now.

[Dark Shepherd]

Can you link the FAQ because I'm pretty sure they FAQ'd against it and would love to be wrong.

Its just the Space Wolves codex FAQ on warhammer community page

 

Wolf priests are interesting now in how theyre used. IMO jump packs are the way to go now. If you want one in a vehicle better off with a wolf lord

Edited March 19, 2020 by Dark Shepherd

[Gree]

Gree, I had already shown in the thread that GW immediately started eroding that particular Doctrine fluff immeadiately - it basically says “Doctrines are how the Astartes wage war” in the Blood of Baal PA, and then in the Ritual of the Damned PA, it doesn’t even give a fluff blurb for the Doctrines at all for the Dark Angels. So while GW May have started with the “Doctrines = Codex Astartes” concept, they almost immediately abandoned it in favor of giving all Chapters the same doctrines as an “Astartes way of war” concept.

I don't consider that an erosion. Despite their unique units, both the Dark Angels and Blood Angels are both mostly Codex adherant in organization and makeup. They utilize Devastator, Tactical and Assault squads in their companies. Giving them Doctrines makes sense to me. If this was something that all Astartes inherently had, then the likes of the Grey Knights would have gotten the ''Combat Doctines'' system instead of the ''Tides of War''. Chaos Marines would also possess a ''Combat Doctrines'' system.

 

If this was a retcon, it seems to me like a lazy retcon to justify giving the Space Wolves Combat Doctrines, instead of giving them a similar treatment to the Grey Knights. GW didn't even bother to rename the ''Devastator, Tactical, Assault'' naming system into something more appropriate for the Space Wolves.

 

 

 

That fluff part I don’t really have a problem with, the use of heavy weapons, then advancing to mid-range fire-fights, then to close combat range makes sense given how Astartes of all stripes (and other fur patterns as appropriate) are equipped (especially since GW has apparently abandoned, for the time being, any Chapter specific armament of squads barring named Characters for Primaris).

 

Well according to the Designer's Commentary, the Combat Doctrine system was always meant to be rigid. That was a very recent publication. The Combat Doctrines are intended to come across as a rigid system of tactical precepts. I don't know about you, but that doesn't seem appropriate for the Space Wolves lore now does it?

Edited March 19, 2020 by Gree

[DanPesci]

 

Gree, I had already shown in the thread that GW immediately started eroding that particular Doctrine fluff immeadiately - it basically says “Doctrines are how the Astartes wage war” in the Blood of Baal PA, and then in the Ritual of the Damned PA, it doesn’t even give a fluff blurb for the Doctrines at all for the Dark Angels. So while GW May have started with the “Doctrines = Codex Astartes” concept, they almost immediately abandoned it in favor of giving all Chapters the same doctrines as an “Astartes way of war” concept.

I don't consider that an erosion. Despite their unique units, both the Dark Angels and Blood Angels are both mostly Codex adherant in organization and makeup. They utilize Devastator, Tactical and Assault squads in their companies. Giving them Doctrines makes sense to me. If this was something that all Astartes inherently had, then the likes of the Grey Knights would have gotten the ''Combat Doctines'' system instead of the ''Tides of War''. Chaos Marines would also possess a ''Combat Doctrines'' system.

 

If this was a retcon, it seems to me like a lazy retcon to justify giving the Space Wolves Combat Doctrines, instead of giving them a similar treatment to the Grey Knights. GW didn't even bother to rename the ''Devastator, Tactical, Assault'' naming system into something more appropriate for the Space Wolves.

 

 

 

Gotta say id agree here. From the fact there's 12 great companies, with non-codex compliant numbers, down to squad level where wolf guard can lead line troops and our scouts being elites, SW have always been portrayed as divergent from the standard astartes organisation.

 

For me in an iteal situation we should have just kept shock assault/bolter discipline (the things that make you a space marine) and had different doctrines (the thing that determines how your chapter organises to fight).

 

On the flipside I can see why they've just given us CD though as its easier for them to balance and hand out 'flavour' through strategems.

Edited March 19, 2020 by DanPesci

[Guest Triszin]

Ghaz killed off ragnars wolves.

 

In warcom.

 

They are gone

[PeteySödes]

Ghaz killed off ragnars wolves.

 

In warcom.

 

They are gone

 

Wasn't even Ghaz, some upjumped lackey. RIP in peace goodest boys.

[DanPesci]

Ghaz killed off ragnars wolves.

 

In warcom.

 

They are gone

 

Primaris wolves incoming

[Boytoy]

someone fetch a skjald to recite their deeds, and bring out the mjod

[Valerian]

 

Will anyone using Veteran Intercessors? I am tempted since at the Moment I am only running one Squad with Power Fist at 1000 Points and squeezing out more  from them seems tasty, especially with Savage Fury (and cool, cool is allways important), but then...1 CP is 1 CP.

I am planning to build 2 x 5-man packs with ABR and Thunder Hammers for midfield work. 5 Attacks on the charge with exploding 6s could do some real work and they get a dakka boost on T2 from Tactical Doctrine. I think they can put hurt on a wide variety of targets for just over 100 points of Troop. Yes they require a CP but they are still Troops so help fill out your Battalion slots. I think the CP is worthwhile.

 

 

Just getting back into things, so forgive the noob question:  I see in the Codex Space Wolves official update version 1.4 where our Intercessor Pack Leaders can now take a Power Sword or Power Fist.  Where can I find the option to add a Thunder Hammer, instead?  Also, how are folks modeling these Power Fists and Thunder Hammers on their Primaris Marines?  Assume there isn't yet an add-on sprue that has those arm options, so some sort of kit-bashing is involved?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Val

[TiguriusX]

 

 

 

Will anyone using Veteran Intercessors? I am tempted since at the Moment I am only running one Squad with Power Fist at 1000 Points and squeezing out more from them seems tasty, especially with Savage Fury (and cool, cool is allways important), but then...1 CP is 1 CP.

I am planning to build 2 x 5-man packs with ABR and Thunder Hammers for midfield work. 5 Attacks on the charge with exploding 6s could do some real work and they get a dakka boost on T2 from Tactical Doctrine. I think they can put hurt on a wide variety of targets for just over 100 points of Troop. Yes they require a CP but they are still Troops so help fill out your Battalion slots. I think the CP is worthwhile.

Just getting back into things, so forgive the noob question: I see in the Codex Space Wolves official update version 1.4 where our Intercessor Pack Leaders can now take a Power Sword or Power Fist. Where can I find the option to add a Thunder Hammer, instead? Also, how are folks modeling these Power Fists and Thunder Hammers on their Primaris Marines? Assume there isn't yet an add-on sprue that has those arm options, so some sort of kit-bashing is involved?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Val

Technically we cant take a TH...that was part of the PA rollout and we dont have ours yet

 

I would bet that gets fixed with our PA codex update

 

As for modeling I think the salamander kit was the first to include the official weapon.

 

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Salamanders-Primaris-Upgrades-And-Transfers-2019

 

Most people are just kit bashing though

[Oshikai]

 

 

Will anyone using Veteran Intercessors? I am tempted since at the Moment I am only running one Squad with Power Fist at 1000 Points and squeezing out more  from them seems tasty, especially with Savage Fury (and cool, cool is allways important), but then...1 CP is 1 CP.

I am planning to build 2 x 5-man packs with ABR and Thunder Hammers for midfield work. 5 Attacks on the charge with exploding 6s could do some real work and they get a dakka boost on T2 from Tactical Doctrine. I think they can put hurt on a wide variety of targets for just over 100 points of Troop. Yes they require a CP but they are still Troops so help fill out your Battalion slots. I think the CP is worthwhile.

 

 

Just getting back into things, so forgive the noob question:  I see in the Codex Space Wolves official update version 1.4 where our Intercessor Pack Leaders can now take a Power Sword or Power Fist.  Where can I find the option to add a Thunder Hammer, instead?  Also, how are folks modeling these Power Fists and Thunder Hammers on their Primaris Marines?  Assume there isn't yet an add-on sprue that has those arm options, so some sort of kit-bashing is involved?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Val

 

 

The Thunderhammer Option will quiet surely come with PA, it was the same with Dark and Blood Angels. Modellingwise most regular Power fists scale well with primaris as well.

[Valerian]

 

 

In case a couple of folk didn't get it, I was making a joke on GW giving the Space Wolves yet another un-Wolfy squad, even if it comes from a Strat...

 

I don't know, my last bland, un-wolfy Intercessor (now Veteran Intercessor) squad looks pretty wolfy to me:

 

 

They don't need to have term 'Wolf' in their datacard title to fit in with the Sons of Russ.

 

-Ran

 

Those are beautiful, Ran!

[Bulwyf]

If they stay in line with other Chaplains and Equivalents,  Oath of War could Change to a Prayer that has to inspire  on 3+ before giving you the rerolls. And you have to speak at them Start of the Battleground and have to be disembarked for that. Which makes it a bit of a hassle to time right for your Wulfen and relies on you making the actual role or burn a Cp for a re-role.

 

Which is what makes Lemartes great with Death Company since he gives them re-roles without Praying in contrast to regular Chaplains

 

So for someone that only plays SW for Loyalist armies, let me see if I have this down right when it comes to us. 

 

You put Wulfen and WP in a Stormwolf because doing anything else is a gigantic waste of points. The rules right now say when I disembark them and charge together the WP gives them rerolls in the combat phase for misses. This new way you are describing is radically different and a huge nerf to us.

 

If the way you describe this is correct I can't get rerolls when disembarking because the prayer/litany/whatever it is called has to be done BEFORE movement phase and you have to be disembarked in order to do it. So the turn you get your Wulfen and WP on the table they are without the reroll aura or any other prayer/litany. You then have to wait until the NEXT turn which means your opponent will have shot the Wulfen off the table because without those rerolls in combat your Wulfen are in serious trouble hitting with TH/SS. If anything is still alive after this you THEN have to roll a 3+ with the WP to get the same neutered effect your WP had as an all the time aura.  

 

Do I have this process correct? How in the world is this not a gigantic nerf to Space Wolves? Assuming that this is changed for WP?

[Oshikai]

IF they change it, thats the downside, yes. (You explained it way better than me . Appologies in general Brothers,  english isn`t my native Tongue, thats why I tend to ramble and all the Typos and Edits)

[Bulwyf]

IF they change it, thats the downside, yes. (You explained it way better than me . Appologies in general Brothers,  english isn`t my native Tongue, thats why I tend to ramble and all the Typos and Edits)

 

I am trying not to be unfriendly but this is more than "downside". This is a gigantic nerf to both WP and especially Wulfen.  They can keep these prayer/litanies far away from my WP if this is the trade off. This neutered version is absolutely terrible. Why would you even play WP? Or for that matter why bring a Stormwolf or Land Raider? Or use Wulfen at all? The only thing that makes them truly worth their points is having a WP nearby giving them reliable rerolls in combat phase.

Edited March 19, 2020 by Bulwyf

[Oshikai]

It is indeed a nerf, but I do think that Wulfen will still see play or mash Face considering how many Lists I see without any Stormfangs or Wolfpriests allready. Like allways, we gonna find a way. Don`t get me wrong, I am skeptical of Litanies in general because an inspire-role can allways fail you in critical Moments. But then I am looking forward to experiement with the new prayers and the Book at Large.

[hammer grimblood]

Ghaz killed off ragnars wolves.

 

In warcom.

 

They are gone

I haven't been around a lot lately with work and life and have yet to add any of these Russ forsaken primaris into my army but killing off Ragnar's wolves off screen by a nobody ork when they lived for over a hundred years, through all the wars and battles including Magnus' incursion is some of the laziest, facebook grade writing I've ever seen from GW. It boggles my mind how a company like GW can have actual, published, great authors working for them through Black Library and yet their writing for us sounds like it was written like fanfiction.