Iron Hands Supplement: Calculated Fury Uses

[Charlo]

Things like Razorbacks are a great investment now - they can PROTECC your units if you don't get the first turn and marines can disembark and ATTACC with no penalties ;)

[9x19 Parabellum]

Also, I think Hunter Killer Missiles belong on everything that can take them now.

 

-increased chance of all tanks living through 1st round alpha strikes

-no movement penalty for heavy weapons while Dev Doctrine is in effect

-reroll 1's while Dev Doctrine is in effect

-hitting at ap-3 while Dev Doctrine is in effect

-....all for 6 pts.

 

Hell yes.

[MajorNese]

Hunter-killers depend a bit on what you think your chances of survival are. Because it's essentially a missile launcher (20) that can only be fired once, unlike the standard ML that can fire up to 5-7 times (if surviving that long). So yes, a HK is a way of "buying" additional T1 firepower at the cost of being worse when surviving for 4 rounds.

 

As few units are cowardly/resilient enough to survive that long - go for it. Use the additional firepower (3 missiles on turn 1 instead of 1 missile on turns 1-3) to take out larger threats before they have time to wreck your stuff, with little chances of overkill as it's one per vehicle anyway. Also, if a vehicle with HK blows up turn 1, you just lose 6p of wargear, not 20p of a regular ML.

[radionausea]

3 hunter killers on a leviathan hitting on 2s rerolling 1s seems like an auto-take for 18 points.

[ERJAK]

 

 

 

Will you guys be shifting to stalker bolter intercessors to fill out troops now you all will be living in the devastator doctrine?

Sniper scouts. Same deal, save 20pts.

Well, 20pts AP-1 vs AP-3 and D2

...and five wounds, and a better save. Pretty good deal for 20pts.

Not if those 20pts get you even more elsewhere.

Intercessors without stratagem buffs and large units do a fairly irrelevant amount of damage. They're there to screen and hold objectives. Investing more points in them is okay, but they're a unit that's meant to die unless you're maxing them for the sniper strat. Making them slightly better at doing stuff before they die isn't something I enjoy putting points into when I can invest into the units that I can accomplish things with.

Edited September 11, 2019 by ERJAK

[Kallas]

Intercessors[...] are there to screen and hold objectives.

Intercessors are much tougher than an equivalently sized unit of Sniper Scouts. Sniper Scouts with Camo Cloaks are also pretty expensive, and while they can snipe characters they're not actually good at it.

 

Stalker Intercessors will hold back/midfield objectives better; although Scouts can/will start on midfield ones.

 

For sure, the Stalker Stratagem is expensive and probably not worth it most of the time, but they're still a solid unit, since they're going to be 4/-3/2 for Iron Hands, so they're good against enemy Primaris/elite units (which Sniper Scouts aren't, really).

 

It's swings and roundabouts, but the Stalker Intercessors do seem like a very solid option for IH.

[Xerxus]

Stalkers are the same cost as regular Bolt rifles now, just so we're all on the same page.

[ERJAK]

 

Intercessors[...] are there to screen and hold objectives.

Intercessors are much tougher than an equivalently sized unit of Sniper Scouts. Sniper Scouts with Camo Cloaks are also pretty expensive, and while they can snipe characters they're not actually good at it.

 

Stalker Intercessors will hold back/midfield objectives better; although Scouts can/will start on midfield ones.

 

For sure, the Stalker Stratagem is expensive and probably not worth it most of the time, but they're still a solid unit, since they're going to be 4/-3/2 for Iron Hands, so they're good against enemy Primaris/elite units (which Sniper Scouts aren't, really).

 

It's swings and roundabouts, but the Stalker Intercessors do seem like a very solid option for IH.

There's no doubt that intercessors will hold the objectives better, the question comes in when determining if them holding objectives better is worth more than being able to invest more resources into your power units.

 

If a unit of scouts can hold the objective long enough to win the game, then the additional points you would spent on intercessors would be less useful than being able to buy better characters, weapon options, etc for your power units.

 

Either will work, but I tend to favor the bare bones approach to troops. I like having units who I don't care if they die.

[Ishagu]

I would run Stalker Intercessors ahead of Scouts with Snipers and Cloaks, any day.

 

Double the wounds, same save in cover, good in CC at a pinch.

The Stalker Bolt rifle will be Str4 Ap-3 2 damage with Iron Hands which is pretty fantastic, especially on the move.

[MajorNese]

+1 for Intercessors. They have won me a fair number of games, simply by requiring twice as much firepower to remove and being as effective as 2 marines in protracted CC. This might require a bit of threat management (so the multi damage weaponry targets something else, which won't be hard with all those vehicles), but the result is worth it.

 

Scouts are usually a prime target for anything that ignores cover, then they just fall apart instead of soaking up more fire. Gearing them up with camo cloak and sniper rifle just increases their cost to the point where one could have taken intercessors anyway. Which doesn't really seem effective - camo cloak hands out the same save as Intercessors have (just with ways to disable it), and a few sniper rifles are not going to make a considerable dent - they're single shot bolters that can fish for 6s. Unlike Eliminators, which can actually take down their targets with strength/AP/multiwound/self-buff.

 

Though my current Intercessors are autobolt (built them pre-codex for Rule of Cool), I'm rather likely to include some stalker ones as well. Hold backfield objectives, walk across the board without loss of precision, put some shots downrange. S4 is still bad, but AP-3 and 2D are a lot better than mandatory troops used to be.

[WarriorFish]

I've been fond of HKs in 8th with their reduced cost (in the olden days, not so much...). I always took them on the Leviathan because that gave him something to do first turn, but especially so for Ironclads. They tend to not live that long as the enemy goes after them, plus are short ranges so this gives them something to do before they get to the smashing :)

[Ishagu]

I would always take the 3HKs on a Leviathan...

 

I wonder if it will get a nerf in the near future. I'm a bit cautious with FW units at the moment.

[MajorNese]

Leviathans with stormcannons were ridiculously good for so long, I still wonder why they weren't taken down a notch.

 

Back in the day, a friend had a 2k tournament list featuring 5 storm cannon leviathans + bubble chars and 5 IG mortar teams. Yes, it was already ridiculously powerful when souping any imperial units was a thing...

[Ishagu]

It's just the insane durability, coupled with free re-rolls, no penalty to move and easy access to a +1 to hit psychic power which negates modifiers to a large extent (when the model is BS 1+)

 

Oh, and it's AP-3

 

Iron Hands are going to be unbelievably strong. The list combos are all very straightforward and instantly usable. The more you unpack it the more you realise just how powerful this chapter will be - hands down superior to Ultras in terms of what it's doing (Yes, Ultras do infantry better but IH are not far behind in this regard either).

Edited September 12, 2019 by Ishagu

[TrawlingCleaner]

It's just the insane durability, coupled with free re-rolls, no penalty to move and easy access to a +1 to hit psychic power which negates modifiers to a large extent (when the model is BS 1+)

 

Oh, and it's AP-3

 

Iron Hands are going to be unbelievably strong. The list combos are all very straightforward and instantly usable. The more you unpack it the more you realise just how powerful this chapter will be - hands down superior to Ultras in terms of what it's doing (Yes, Ultras do infantry better but IH are not far behind in this regard either).

It's weird going from one of the weaker but useable chapters to one of the strongest (so far).

I got laughed at once for bringing out tac marines, whirlwind and vindicator to a semi competitive tournament, now all of these are quite scary especially as iron hands

[Ishagu]

Basically ever unit becomes a massive threat because the bonuses apply in the Dev Doctrine, from the start of the game. Even something like a Whirlwind with Vengeance rounds.

[TrawlingCleaner]

Basically ever unit becomes a massive threat because the bonuses apply in the Dev Doctrine, from the start of the game. Even something like a Whirlwind with Vengeance rounds.

As I've said in another thread, vindicators are really scary now, they can always move with no penalty which makes it's threat range pretty huge

[Rodrick]

 

Basically ever unit becomes a massive threat because the bonuses apply in the Dev Doctrine, from the start of the game. Even something like a Whirlwind with Vengeance rounds.

As I've said in another thread, vindicators are really scary now, they can always move with no penalty which makes it's threat range pretty huge

 

 

still 1d6 shots is a big gamble

[Iron Father Ferrum]

 

 

 

Basically ever unit becomes a massive threat because the bonuses apply in the Dev Doctrine, from the start of the game. Even something like a Whirlwind with Vengeance rounds.

As I've said in another thread, vindicators are really scary now, they can always move with no penalty which makes it's threat range pretty huge

still 1d6 shots is a big gamble

Less so if you have more than one Vindicator... Edited September 12, 2019 by Iron Father Ferrum

[Rodrick]

 

 

 

Basically ever unit becomes a massive threat because the bonuses apply in the Dev Doctrine, from the start of the game. Even something like a Whirlwind with Vengeance rounds.

As I've said in another thread, vindicators are really scary now, they can always move with no penalty which makes it's threat range pretty huge

still 1d6 shots is a big gamble

Less so if you have more than one Vindicator...

 

 

a dakka pred is 20 point more than a vindicator....  vindicator avg shots is 3 and damage is 1d6  (avg 93, range .....24

 

pred cannon is 2d3 shots damage fixed 3...range 48?

 

also 6 HB shots

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Demolisher shells are S10.

[Rodrick]

Demolisher shells are S10.

sure, and thats about it 

[Iron Father Ferrum]

That's all some of us need.

[TrawlingCleaner]

Sure preds have better average damage and more reliable but I love having the potential to do 36 wounds at strength 10

[Aothaine]

I would run Stalker Intercessors ahead of Scouts with Snipers and Cloaks, any day.

 

Double the wounds, same save in cover, good in CC at a pinch.

The Stalker Bolt rifle will be Str4 Ap-3 2 damage with Iron Hands which is pretty fantastic, especially on the move.

 

I think this is one of the most important aspects of this doctrine. Units can move and fire their heavy weapons with no penalty. This is massive! You can now move your castle around. This is T'au level of mobility with Space Marine accuracy. It is crazy strong on the board. I'm going to have to seriously consider changing the chapter I'll be building for LVO 2021 and any events from the summer 2020 going forward into Iron Hands.

 

Edit: But I've got a month or two before I really start to invest so I have time to review the Salamanders and Imperial Fists which I know will both be damned good too.

Edited September 12, 2019 by Aothaine