Chaos vs. New Marines

[Iron_Within]

So has anyone had a game against nu marines save the crimson first game?

[nanosquid]

So has anyone had a game against nu marines save the crimson first game?

 

Well, I did have one mini-game at 1000pts where I taught someone how to play. They did 41 unsaved wounds turn 1, lmao. Someone well versed in previous editions, and he was shocked when I started removing cultists without rolling. The look on his face when I said "Well, I can't roll a 7!" was priceless.

[Panzer]

GK's main strength are against Deamons. I don't understand the complaint of bringing Deamons against them losing and complaining. GK are in a rough spot as it is. I'm glad they do as well as they do vs Deamons. 

 

It's nice to see actual CSM on the board now. Mass powerarmor hoard style is a thing once again and it is good.

 

Krash

 

Against an actual Daemon army it doesn't even look that great for them even since they have a Stratagem to just bring back a Daemon unit that got destroyed by a GK unit. Got rid of that Bloodthirster? Want to do it again? :D 

[Captain_Krash]

Haha you're not wrong. But still they get more buffs than any other army vs them

 

Krash

[techsoldaten]

 

GK's main strength are against Deamons. I don't understand the complaint of bringing Deamons against them losing and complaining. GK are in a rough spot as it is. I'm glad they do as well as they do vs Deamons. 

 

It's nice to see actual CSM on the board now. Mass powerarmor hoard style is a thing once again and it is good.

 

Krash

 

Against an actual Daemon army it doesn't even look that great for them even since they have a Stratagem to just bring back a Daemon unit that got destroyed by a GK unit. Got rid of that Bloodthirster? Want to do it again?

 

Against an actual Daemon army, the game would have been a lot closer.

 

My Daemon Primarch list concentrates a lot of value in a small set of units. It depends on tying up my opponent for three turns fighting the Primarchs while dishing out damage, which happens pretty reliably.

 

What my opponent did, which was brilliant, was max out on strikes and combat squad each unit. This doubled his psychic offense at no cost. At 19ppm, that's an incredibly efficient tactic versus Daemons.

 

But it's not impossible to beat. A couple 30-man Bloodletter Bombs would have consumed a good chunk of his army turn 2. At the end of the day, it's still mostly MEQ squads waiting to fail their saves.

[nanosquid]

I can't think of anywhere else to post this, so I'm going to throw it in here.

 

I was really disappointed by the thunder hammer nerf, as I JUST finished a really nice conversion for a jump Lord with hammer. I was looking for a way to keep him in my list and realized something: for less than half the cost of a hammer, you can take 2 powerfists. Normally this would be redundant, but now, post F&F, one of them can be replaced by the Fist of Decay daemon weapon (Nurgle).

 

See where I'm going with this?

 

If I do roll that 1 and take the wound, ouch. Oh well, I still have a regular powerfist, which has the same stats as a hammer except for d3. If I do get to use the fist, though, I've not only got the same stats as a thunder hammer, but the bonus of auto-wounding everything on 2+.

 

He's back in my list to stay, I think. *Leers at enemy knight*

[EL_duderino]

I played a planetary invasion campaign game with 1k WE and 1K AL noise marines vs Ultramarines. Not too representative, as he got both his Vindicator Laser Destroyers bracketed by the pre-game bombardment and put a lot of his units in cover (no action turn 1). And the battlefield weather table usually came up with only 12” visibility for him

[Panzer]

I can't think of anywhere else to post this, so I'm going to throw it in here.

 

I was really disappointed by the thunder hammer nerf, as I JUST finished a really nice conversion for a jump Lord with hammer. I was looking for a way to keep him in my list and realized something: for less than half the cost of a hammer, you can take 2 powerfists. Normally this would be redundant, but now, post F&F, one of them can be replaced by the Fist of Decay daemon weapon (Nurgle).

 

See where I'm going with this?

 

If I do roll that 1 and take the wound, ouch. Oh well, I still have a regular powerfist, which has the same stats as a hammer except for d3. If I do get to use the fist, though, I've not only got the same stats as a thunder hammer, but the bonus of auto-wounding everything on 2+.

 

He's back in my list to stay, I think. *Leers at enemy knight*

 

It uses up a relic slot and will be the only relic that character can take though. With a regular Thunderhammer you are free to give that character a different relic. Like with the Blood Angels Captain there's a great Thunderhammer relic too but the Jump Pack relic is MUCH more valuable so the regular Thunderhammer has to do.

[nanosquid]

 

 

It uses up a relic slot and will be the only relic that character can take though. With a regular Thunderhammer you are free to give that character a different relic. Like with the Blood Angels Captain there's a great Thunderhammer relic too but the Jump Pack relic is MUCH more valuable so the regular Thunderhammer has to do.

 

 

True, but can you name a better relic for IW to give to a jump lord?

[Khornestar]

Insidium and axe of the forgemaster both seem like decent choices.

[nanosquid]

Insidium and axe of the forgemaster both seem like decent choices.

 

Yeah, they are. Insidium has some other benefits if you take it with a hammer, but if you're looking for pure punch even s10 isn't as good as auto-wound on 2s. It's nice to have options to debate over at last.

[MasterDeath]

Thats an interesting question by the way: Are the Daemon Weapons (or most Relic Weapons in general) worth it over the more support oriented Items like the Malefic Tome (WB), Hydra´s Wail (AL) or the Remnant of Marasomething (EC) or protective Relics like the Drakescale Plate for example (AL). I often think that this character wont live long enough to make it worthwhile.

[Panzer]

 

Insidium and axe of the forgemaster both seem like decent choices.

 

Yeah, they are. Insidium has some other benefits if you take it with a hammer, but if you're looking for pure punch even s10 isn't as good as auto-wound on 2s. It's nice to have options to debate over at last.

 

 

For pure punch you are right, but Insidium pushes your Warlord to T5 which means your opponents Thunderhammers, Power fists and what not won't wound him on a 2+ anymore either which is pretty good too.

I'm not saying it's a bad choice to take the Nurgle fist because it's not. It's a great relic. However the actual benefit over a Thunderhammer is pretty small and there are other good relics too. You don't even have to look at just this one character. Not taking the Nurgle fist lets you put a relic on another character instead too.

Here it obviously depends on what else you have in your list, however there are relics that don't get nearly replaced by a regular wargear option like the Slaanesh claws, the Tzeentch sword (which is great against Stormshields for example), Spitespitter if having a shooty character is your thing, Techno-venomous mechatendrils for a fancy warpsmith or heck even the basic relics from the Codex like the Fleshmetal Exoskeleton or Intoxicating Elixir.

In that case it's more about whether there are other relics you want and how many CP you are willing to spend on your characters pre-game instead of Stratagems like VotLW and such.

[nanosquid]

 

 

 

 

For pure punch you are right, but Insidium pushes your Warlord to T5 which means your opponents Thunderhammers, Power fists and what not won't wound him on a 2+ anymore either which is pretty good too.

I'm not saying it's a bad choice to take the Nurgle fist because it's not. It's a great relic. However the actual benefit over a Thunderhammer is pretty small and there are other good relics too. You don't even have to look at just this one character. Not taking the Nurgle fist lets you put a relic on another character instead too.

Here it obviously depends on what else you have in your list, however there are relics that don't get nearly replaced by a regular wargear option like the Slaanesh claws, the Tzeentch sword (which is great against Stormshields for example), Spitespitter if having a shooty character is your thing, Techno-venomous mechatendrils for a fancy warpsmith or heck even the basic relics from the Codex like the Fleshmetal Exoskeleton or Intoxicating Elixir.

In that case it's more about whether there are other relics you want and how many CP you are willing to spend on your characters pre-game instead of Stratagems like VotLW and such.

 

 

The issue I was running into was 1) being 20 points over on my list and 2) wanting to maintain WYSIWYG. I think for people like me who worry about that kind of thing this is a nice points saver.

 

Additionally, my setup right now is to put a big hitter relic on the jump lord, and the Spitespitter on a terminator lord who strikes in with a plasma term squad. The ap-3 and d3 dmg make it a pseudo-plasma so he gets to be the one to finish off a lot of weakened units. It's worked really well for me so far.

[CrystalSeer]

So has anyone had a game against nu marines save the crimson first game?

 

I have played #NuMarines four times. Once against a Ravenguard player, Once against Iron Hands, and twice against the same Ultramarines guy. All four times were using various mixtures of Thousand Sons and Tzeentch Daemons.

 

In each game, I've managed wins, but it has been an extreme grind. The net feeling is that I have to focus every unit in my army to create strategic synergies and tight target priority to knock out 1-2 targets. In response, the marine player will blink at me and kill d3 units. It becomes very obvious that my army plays a dice game, and through combinations of re-rolls and strategems, the imperials do not.

 

All is not lost though. The last PA chaos releases have been extremely solid, and my beloved dusty boys are up for some new rules in January. Things are getting better slowly.

[Khornate individual]

I can't think of anywhere else to post this, so I'm going to throw it in here.

 

I was really disappointed by the thunder hammer nerf

What's the nerf to the thunder hammer?

 

[Irate Khornate]

 

 

I can't think of anywhere else to post this, so I'm going to throw it in here.

 

I was really disappointed by the thunder hammer nerf

What's the nerf to the thunder hammer?

It got a points increase to match loyalists. Not much of a nerf, more of a balancing issue. But just like loyalists it's caused it to be taken a lot less in favor of cheaper options.

[techsoldaten]

Might not get another chance to post here before the Holidays.

 

Just wanted to say it's been fun kicking around ideas on how to beat NuMarines. Look forward to doing the same next year.

 

Was talking to the guy who owns my FLGS. He says there haven't been that many NuMarine games since the end of November. It's becoming noticeable, more people are coming in with Dark Eldar and Knight soup lists right now.

 

No clue why that is, but hope it's because even they are tired of OP armies. Happy holidays!

[MegaVolt87]

DE and knight soup are still good though.  Probably Marine fatigue, not a desire to play with weaker, non OP armies.