Kain Mor Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 No love from Prot on Noctilith Crown + Benediction of Darkness? I just don’t think a 5++ is really going to make a difference, what our 3+ save hits are going to be dying to is a horrific number of ap 1-2 shots, which the invuln doesn’t really help with. Sure it might help a vehicle or two hit by plasma but even then it’s only a 33% save personally Id rather use the points to just take more units to make my opponent think harder about target priority Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358416-annoyed-at-havocs/page/2/#findComment-5391797 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aothaine Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 By design, any worthwhile Havoc squad is a hot target. The only setup I made that had opponent's ignoring them was (honestly) Autocannons. Option 2: take transports! This is the mindset I'm in when I see Havocs. I love having my entire army in vehicles and rushing those up the board. Rhinos are pretty damn good and as Prot stated, very underrated. I would run them in Rhinos like this... 5 Havocs 5 Berzerkers Then have a few more rhinos with chosen and characters in them. Try and spread them around too so that your opponent has to make difficult choices on what to let through. Like maybe have a rhino with 10 Berzerkers in it as well so that the focus is somewhere else. My idea for the list though is something like this... *Specialist Detachment Devastation Battery *Battalion Legion: World Eaters -= In Land Raider =- Chaos Lord (Can they have thunder hammers now? That miniature they made seems to have a thunder hammer.) Dark Apostle [T] Berzerkers (8-man): Chainaxe & Chainsword x8 -= In Rhino =- [HS] Havocs (5-man): Lascannon x2, Chaincannon x2, Combi-bolter & Power Axe on AC [T] Berzerkers (5-man): Chainaxe & Chainsword x5 -= In Rhino =- [HS] Havocs (5-man): Lascannon x2, Chaincannon x2, Combi-bolter & Power Axe on AC [T] Berzerkers (5-man): Chainaxe & Chainsword x5 -= In Rhino =- [HS] Havocs (5-man): Lascannon x2, Chaincannon x2, Combi-bolter & Power Axe on AC [T] Berzerkers (5-man): Chainaxe & Chainsword x5 [E] Helbrute: Helbrute Fist x2, Heavy Flamer x2 [E] Helbrute: Helbrute Fist x2, Heavy Flamer x2 [E] Helbrute: Helbrute Fist x2, Heavy Flamer x2 Not sure on the points for this but if it is not close to or over 2k I would be surprised. Anyone with the free time that can look up the cost of this list? Anyway, in typical World Eater fashion, this list just wants to get to the opponent and smash face. Turn one the rhinos move and pop smoke. LR moves and fires, Helbrutes move and advance. I wanted to mention that I choice the Heavy Flamers for the Helbrutes to help with flyers. Still a bit silly that flamers can hit things flying high in the sky.. but not having to worry about the -1(-2) to hit them can be quite nice. But mostly you're just going to ignore flyers. Clear the board and auto-win. Anyway, this is how I would use the new Havocs. I would run them as WE with mark of Slaanesh so I could strat to double tap with one of the Havocs. Then you also have the Berzerker units that you can strat to triple attack with them if necessary. Though I would most likely save it for one of the Helbrutes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358416-annoyed-at-havocs/page/2/#findComment-5391807 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaVolt87 Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 If those lascannons were multi melta's, that would be even better. Since you are rushing with rhino's, range advantage of lascannon is kinda wasted, though I get what you are doing with that list. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358416-annoyed-at-havocs/page/2/#findComment-5392209 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain Mor Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 Can you mark world eaters Slaanesh? I’m pretty sure they have to be Khorne. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358416-annoyed-at-havocs/page/2/#findComment-5392215 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyriks Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 Can you mark world eaters Slaanesh? I’m pretty sure they have to be Khorne. WE have to have the Mark of Khorne if possible, so no Mark of Slaanesh. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358416-annoyed-at-havocs/page/2/#findComment-5392222 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 Can you mark world eaters Slaanesh? I’m pretty sure they have to be Khorne. No you cannot, WE must be Khorne-marked. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358416-annoyed-at-havocs/page/2/#findComment-5392227 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaVolt87 Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 Can you mark world eaters Slaanesh? I’m pretty sure they have to be Khorne. No you cannot, WE must be Khorne-marked. That was actually a pretty big hit to the new renegades in Vigilus Ablaze as well, but having the same marks is appropriate for the lore. It just shows how desperate we are getting, trying something gamy just for a slim advantage these days. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358416-annoyed-at-havocs/page/2/#findComment-5392253 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Closet Skeleton Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 Not sure on the points for this but if it is not close to or over 2k I would be surprised. Anyone with the free time that can look up the cost of this list? You can fit this into 1900 giving you an extra 100 points to play around. World Eaters Brigade Thunder Hammer Lord Exalted Champion Dark Apostle 6 units of 5 berzerkers with power fist champions 5 dual combi-bolter rhinos 3 dual fists 2 combi bolter helbrutes 3 lone chaos spawn 3 units of autocannon havocs Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358416-annoyed-at-havocs/page/2/#findComment-5392376 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gederas Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 Not sure on the points for this but if it is not close to or over 2k I would be surprised. Anyone with the free time that can look up the cost of this list? You can fit this into 1900 giving you an extra 100 points to play around. World Eaters Brigade Thunder Hammer Lord Exalted Champion Dark Apostle 6 units of 5 berzerkers with power fist champions 5 dual combi-bolter rhinos 3 dual fists 2 combi bolter helbrutes 3 lone chaos spawn 3 units of autocannon havocs Havoc Launchers are 6 points per, and basically an auto-include on Rhinos because they're dirt cheap for decent shooting. So that's 18 points. You could also add some Berzerkers to the squads. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358416-annoyed-at-havocs/page/2/#findComment-5392646 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Closet Skeleton Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 Can't add more than 1 or 2 berserkers and fit the whole army in 5 rhinos and you probably want dark disciples instead. Havoc launchers are efficient but aren't an auto-include if you want to swap a autocannon out for a chaincannon instead. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358416-annoyed-at-havocs/page/2/#findComment-5392699 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaVolt87 Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 Use the spare points to deck out the rhino's with combi melta's. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358416-annoyed-at-havocs/page/2/#findComment-5392946 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aothaine Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 I don't think Havocs can take multi-meltas can they? Also, the combi-meltas on the Rhinos is a great idea! Also need at least chaincannons on the Havocs. Would also prefer Lascannons but they are generally 25 points a piece which would mean they wouldn't fit sadly. Can we get the combi-meltas on the Rhinos and two chaincannons per havoc squad? Most likely not, but hey... you never know until you try. Also, you can drop the exalted champ. He really isn't needed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358416-annoyed-at-havocs/page/2/#findComment-5393525 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Closet Skeleton Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 I don't think Havocs can take multi-meltas can they? Also, the combi-meltas on the Rhinos is a great idea! Also need at least chaincannons on the Havocs. Would also prefer Lascannons but they are generally 25 points a piece which would mean they wouldn't fit sadly. Can we get the combi-meltas on the Rhinos and two chaincannons per havoc squad? Most likely not, but hey... you never know until you try. Also, you can drop the exalted champ. He really isn't needed. Exalted Champion is there because you need 3 HQs for a brigade and they're cheap so if you want to save points its the 100 point Dark Apostle that's being swapped out. They also massively boost the power of berzerkers against T6+ targets for the same reason that Guiliman lists didn't need anything about an assault cannon to kill everything. Other option is to just take 3 hammer lords or maybe a Executioner. 6 chaincannons would cost 60 extra points and 5 combi-meltas would be 65 so only if you start dropping power fists or make the helbrutes cheaper or swap them for a cheaper elites choice like Greater Possessed which would be a bad idea because you want T7 saturation for the rhinos. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358416-annoyed-at-havocs/page/2/#findComment-5393529 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aothaine Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 I don't think Havocs can take multi-meltas can they? Also, the combi-meltas on the Rhinos is a great idea! Also need at least chaincannons on the Havocs. Would also prefer Lascannons but they are generally 25 points a piece which would mean they wouldn't fit sadly. Can we get the combi-meltas on the Rhinos and two chaincannons per havoc squad? Most likely not, but hey... you never know until you try. Also, you can drop the exalted champ. He really isn't needed. Exalted Champion is there because you need 3 HQs for a brigade and they're cheap so if you want to save points its the 100 point Dark Apostle that's being swapped out. They also massively boost the power of berzerkers against T6+ targets for the same reason that Guiliman lists didn't need anything about an assault cannon to kill everything. Other option is to just take 3 hammer lords or maybe a Executioner. Ohhhhhh lol! I missed the brigade part. Yeah I had just planned on building it with a Battalion. This makes more sense now. Also, Three Hammer Lords would most likely be the better option. As I learned from Table Top Tactics, you want redundancy. Having three Hammer Lords pop out of those Rhinos is going to be terrifying for the opponent. It also makes more sense now why you went with the auto-cannons. Throwing the combi-meltas on the rhinos is going to be super important to give you that extra anti-tank you need as well. I also see your argument for the Exalted Champion as well. I get to buy the new dex on Monday. I'll check the points there and be able to build the list better. Anyway, back to the topic at hand. Havocs are amazing. They just need support and other equally scary targets. Edit: Damnit! I now have two chaos lists I need to build. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358416-annoyed-at-havocs/page/2/#findComment-5393539 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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