Relic Leviathan or Repulsor executioner

[faithonwings]

Player a Levi today. 2 psyckers for defence bufs and one techmarine. It took 2 turns of fire and I still got it back up to 14 wounds. Wiped him in T3

[Ishagu]

Yep that was my experience. I even tried using a Terminus Ultra with Chronus to destroy one during some trials.

 

I managed 3 Damage from 8 Lascannons hitting on 2s.

Edited September 18, 2019 by Ishagu

[emperorpants]

So essentially the only way to deny it shooting, since it's almost impossible to kill, is to tag it in melee.  Where it has a 5 up overwatch.  Then, for 1cp, it can fall back and shoot anyway.

Edited September 18, 2019 by emperorpants

[Iron Father Ferrum]

So essentially the only way to deny it shooting, since it's almost impossible to kill, is to tag it in melee. Where it has a 5 up overwatch. Then, for 1cp, it can fall back and shoot anyway.

There's another strat to hit OW on 4+, too. Good luck charging double stormcannons.

[emperorpants]

 

So essentially the only way to deny it shooting, since it's almost impossible to kill, is to tag it in melee. Where it has a 5 up overwatch. Then, for 1cp, it can fall back and shoot anyway.

There's another strat to hit OW on 4+, too. Good luck charging double stormcannons.

 

Ha, wow.  lol.  Imagine that next to a chapter master.  

[Ishagu]

Yeah the unit has no real weakness to exploit, and even if you're able to pick off support characters you'll still be shot off the table by the time you do so. Of course you can hide parts of your army but that will stunt mission progression.

[faithonwings]

There are multiple units that can deny overwatch now. Mortal wounds are still a thing. It's not impossible to kill them. Just really hard and you need the right tools.

 

Massive heavy bolter spam wound do a bit better than just regular lascannons. It's not great anti tank but at least it's not botherd by a 4++ or damage reduction.

Edited September 19, 2019 by faithonwings

[emperorpants]

There are multiple units that van deny overwatch now. Mortal wounds are still a thing. It's not impossible to kill Them. Just really hard and you neef the right tools.

 

Massive heavy bolter spam wound do a bit better than just regular lascannons. It's not great anti tank but at least it's not botherd by a 4++ or damage reduction.

Ok, to clarify, that whole part where you said "it isn't impossible to kill them, just really hard!"?  Yeah, we agree.  No one thinks it is actually IMPOSSIBLE to kill a levi, just so hard that it's not worth attempting or building for.  So hard that isn't fun to play against.  So hard as to be unfair to your opponent.  Heavy bolter spam ain't going to cut it.

 

As for mortal wounds, most armies can't puke them out enough to do that beyond eldar, and even then, the 5 up fnp strat exists.  Then the levi gets healed for 9 wounds and blows you away.  If you deny overwatch you best kill the levi, which is unlikely.  It will then fall back and blow you away for 1cp.

[Xerxus]

Wrapping a Leviathan is still viable for multiple armies. Especially those that can deny overwatch, like GSC. Double stormcannon means weak melee, so it would need help in order to escape. A Repulsor is almost untrappable.

[Ishagu]

GSC can be hard countered by Astartes. And we're only talking about one unit here, there are many things that cause a problem - unfortunately most are centered around FW units...

[faithonwings]

 

 

There are multiple units that van deny overwatch now. Mortal wounds are still a thing. It's not impossible to kill Them. Just really hard and you neef the right tools.

 

Massive heavy bolter spam wound do a bit better than just regular lascannons. It's not great anti tank but at least it's not botherd by a 4++ or damage reduction.

Ok, to clarify, that whole part where you said "it isn't impossible to kill them, just really hard!"? Yeah, we agree. No one thinks it is actually IMPOSSIBLE to kill a levi, just so hard that it's not worth attempting or building for. So hard that isn't fun to play against. So hard as to be unfair to your opponent. Heavy bolter spam ain't going to cut it.

 

As for mortal wounds, most armies can't puke them out enough to do that beyond eldar, and even then, the 5 up fnp strat exists. Then the levi gets healed for 9 wounds and blows you away. If you deny overwatch you best kill the levi, which is unlikely. It will then fall back and blow you away for 1cp.

I agree with most of what you say. I'm a fan of building lists that can deal with most enemy lists. I you want to build al list that can deal with Levi's, it would prop do good vs knights to. But sucks against hordes. Building all commers lists just gets getting harder and harder.

 

As for the heavy bolters. I was sharring An idea rather than drawing a conclusion. My opponent had lots of them and toghether they outprefformed all the lascannons and missille launchers he had.

 

How many heavy bolter shots at BS3 would you need? Around 150?

[Khornestar]

The heavy onslaught cannon seems like a good adjunct to the HB, as well.

[Raktra]

 

 

 

There are multiple units that van deny overwatch now. Mortal wounds are still a thing. It's not impossible to kill Them. Just really hard and you neef the right tools.

 

Massive heavy bolter spam wound do a bit better than just regular lascannons. It's not great anti tank but at least it's not botherd by a 4++ or damage reduction.

Ok, to clarify, that whole part where you said "it isn't impossible to kill them, just really hard!"? Yeah, we agree. No one thinks it is actually IMPOSSIBLE to kill a levi, just so hard that it's not worth attempting or building for. So hard that isn't fun to play against. So hard as to be unfair to your opponent. Heavy bolter spam ain't going to cut it.

 

As for mortal wounds, most armies can't puke them out enough to do that beyond eldar, and even then, the 5 up fnp strat exists. Then the levi gets healed for 9 wounds and blows you away. If you deny overwatch you best kill the levi, which is unlikely. It will then fall back and blow you away for 1cp.

I agree with most of what you say. I'm a fan of building lists that can deal with most enemy lists. I you want to build al list that can deal with Levi's, it would prop do good vs knights to. But sucks against hordes. Building all commers lists just gets getting harder and harder.

 

As for the heavy bolters. I was sharring An idea rather than drawing a conclusion. My opponent had lots of them and toghether they outprefformed all the lascannons and missille launchers he had.

 

How many heavy bolter shots at BS3 would you need? Around 150?

150’ll do just shy of 14 wounds on Devastator Doctrine (13.889), so aye that’s about right.

 

Edit: I didn’t add in any Captain or Lt re-rolls there.

Edited September 20, 2019 by Raktra

[9x19 Parabellum]

So I'm trying to price ($ and points) what a levi will set me back based on how I'd like to run him (some combination of rule-of-cool + efficacy). I'm not sure if point costs and upgrades/option are properly reflected in whatever datasheet pdfs I've managed to salvage up from BoLS and 3++, so I don't know if the info I have is accurate.

 

Thus there are several questions packed into 1 here:

 

1. Is the Grav Flux Bombard and Siege claw a good way to run this guy?

2. Is there any alternative to running the 2 heavy flamers? I hate flamers on a 2+ bs guy.

3. Do the Leviathan Dreadnought (unit entry) and Siege Dreadnought (unity entry) both use the same model? (ie, this guy: https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/Leviathan-Pattern-Siege-Dreadnought-Body)

4. Lastly, does the Levi Dread at I've suggested building him above really come in at sixty-five meltabombs?

Edited September 20, 2019 by 9x19 Parabellum

[faithonwings]

Grav flux is good vs hordes and vehicles allike, range is a priblem though. Wound not recomend this build.

 

There is no alternative to flamers

 

65 sounds about right

[9x19 Parabellum]

Grav flux is good vs hordes and vehicles allike, range is a priblem though. Wound not recomend this build.

 

There is no alternative to flamers

 

65 sounds about right

 

1.  :-(

2.  :-(

3.  :-(

[Ishagu]

Grav Flux is very powerful. Still viable but not as efficient.

 

The Dread is tough so it can move forward and survive.

[9x19 Parabellum]

So the preferred method then is the dual stormcannons for 20 shots?

[faithonwings]

Yup, other builds are good, but have their downsides. Dual stormcannon is the go to.

 

Can anyone with experience tell me why they dat execusioner is great? On average it's 7 S9 shots and 18 S5 shots, or 4 S12 shots and equal number of S5's. All for 50 points shy of a knight. Why is this do great. You can get equal number of fire of fire power on 2 smaller platforms for about the same point costs. Why is this one so great?

[Xerxus]

GSC can be hard countered by Astartes. And we're only talking about one unit here, there are many things that cause a problem - unfortunately most are centered around FW units...

 

That's a strong statement, could you explain the hard counter?

[emperorpants]

Yup, other builds are good, but have their downsides. Dual stormcannon is the go to.

 

Can anyone with experience tell me why they dat execusioner is great? On average it's 7 S9 shots and 18 S5 shots, or 4 S12 shots and equal number of S5's. All for 50 points shy of a knight. Why is this do great. You can get equal number of fire of fire power on 2 smaller platforms for about the same point costs. Why is this one so great?

The executioner is great because it's a ton of guns on a toughness 8 body that can make use of all the iron hands buffs.  Aside from iron hands buffs, which speak for themselves, I'd say these are the reasons:

 

-It's toughness 8

-It has a ton of firepower so it can clear hoards AND do anti tank

-It's laser destroyer is reliable: at least 3-6 damage per shot at strength 10 and 72 inch range.  4 shots of that is pretty good.

-It can fly, which is amazing.  (It can't really be tied up in combat, can fall back and shoot, can fly over terrain, etc.)

-It is negative 2 for other units to charge it.

-It's 16 wounds are nothing to sneeze at

 

Take all of that and add all the buffs iron hands can lay on it and it becomes an amazing unit.

[quasistellar]

Yup, other builds are good, but have their downsides. Dual stormcannon is the go to.

 

Can anyone with experience tell me why they dat execusioner is great? On average it's 7 S9 shots and 18 S5 shots, or 4 S12 shots and equal number of S5's. All for 50 points shy of a knight. Why is this do great. You can get equal number of fire of fire power on 2 smaller platforms for about the same point costs. Why is this one so great?

4 reasons:

 

1. Fly. Allows you total freedom of movement and position. Allows you to fall back and shoot.

 

2. Repusion field rule. Adds 2" to enemy charge so it's hard to tie it up in combat to begin with.

 

3. It's just one unit with lots of guns. This is actually an advantage when it comes to stratagems.

 

4. Damage consistency. Minimum 3 damage. Nothing feels worse than rolling a 1 on your lascannons :(

[Kallas]

 

GSC can be hard countered by Astartes. And we're only talking about one unit here, there are many things that cause a problem - unfortunately most are centered around FW units...

 

That's a strong statement, could you explain the hard counter?

 

Infiltrators. Their Omni-scramblers mean that you cannot Deep Strike within 12" of them at all (even with the GSC stratagem to do so outwith 3" instead of 9") - that means that a lot of the strong GSC tricks are nullified: Kelermorphs cannot pop up and obliterate 1-3 characters; Aberrant blobs cannot charge; Hand Flamer Acolytes can't dump huge dice onto a unit.

[Ishagu]

Bingo. If you keep GSC back for a few turns or force then to appear outside of assault range you can beat them handily.

[Xerxus]

Would require you to keep a large portion of those infiltrators alive and in the same area as the heavy hitter units, at least for a couple of turns. Not necessarily easy to accomplish, especially if you face the Atalan Jackal list.