Mobile Firepower/Drop Assault Tactics & Discussion

[Sea-People]

There's a lot of focus on the new Iron Hands abilities that make them much tougher to kill. I think what might be slightly overlooked is how incredibly mobile Iron Hands firepower just became.

 

In my opinion, calculated fury makes Iron Hands the best drop troops in the game right now. Nobody does a drop pod alpha strike better than them.

 

Calculated fury lets your grav, melta, etc fire for full effect on the drop. Your captains don't have to baby sit every unity, which means you can cover a very large swathe of the battlefield with pods.

 

6+++ will help mitigate some of the return fire, and 5+ overwatch will make the inevitable counter charge much more difficult.

 

Fast moving firepower also just got really good. 3 Iron Hands Stormtalons will be a nightmare for hordes. Even land speeders might be worth taking.

 

Point being, there are many more things that this supplement can allow besides making an immortal dreadnought castle.

[Rodrick]

well in the stormtalon/hawk topic , im yet to decide which,   but i think Stormhawk could be better choice.  has more weapons, better Toughness, +1 vs flyers, extra -1 to hit vs flyers ,  sure losses +1 to hit ground targets, but being IH  3+ reroll 1' is enough

 

in the droppod department ,  "basic" marines are only one wound, not sure if the pod + dev squad is worth the suicide

[emperorpants]

Yup. It's what I've been saying. Also, iron hands seem to be a jack of all trades master of them all army. With no weaknesses. Iron hands can snipe well with re rolls of one and moving with no penalty, they can build amazing flyer lists, they can be an amazing infantry army with intercessors and stalker bolt rifles, etc. Their mobility overall might actually be the best of any chapter due to the native re rolls of one with no need to castle and no penalties to heavy weapons. It's incredible.

[Lord_Caerolion]

Yep, my ambush-specialist Successors are going to love their improved Stalker rifles.

[Charlo]

 

in the droppod department ,  "basic" marines are only one wound, not sure if the pod + dev squad is worth the suicide

 

It is if you pop down a banner that lets them shoot upon death! Or deal significant damage.

 

The trick is you don't need to deploy danger close, just in gun range. Only really Multi-meltas put you in a dangerous place.

[Sea-People]

 

 

in the droppod department ,  "basic" marines are only one wound, not sure if the pod + dev squad is worth the suicide

 

It is if you pop down a banner that lets them shoot upon death! Or deal significant damage.

 

The trick is you don't need to deploy danger close, just in gun range. Only really Multi-meltas put you in a dangerous place.

 

 

100% this. A banner and apothecary are pretty much mandatory for this type of strategy. IH have added bonus of firing at full effect on the drop, and are more resilient to return fire.

 

Major downside is that Iron Father Feirros is not all that good in a list that wants to deep strike or be mobile. He's too slow. Perhaps putting him in an impulsor would be worthwhile?

[Iron Father Ferrum]

He's Gravis-armored so he can't go in the Impulsor.

[9x19 Parabellum]

Yep. Old Iron Daddy has only one ride available to him: pimped out big nuts Repulsor G-Ride.  (well i guess you could say that's 2 rides....or 28,000 given the myriad gun configurations)...I'm really only considering it only 1 option cuz the point cost bracket is the same regardless: A lot.

Edited September 17, 2019 by 9x19 Parabellum

[Charlo]

He doesn't need a ride.

 

He sits next to tanks and repairs them.

 

He slows down some tanks, but he works well with Mortis Dreads and such.

[durdle-durdle]

Jam some vindicators in. At 125, they’re a steal now that they’re d6 shots imo. They’re basically the same as the blood angels’ “fast” vindicators from last edition, except with reroll 1’s for iron hands.

[chapter master 454]

Now as I have been doing...going to ask a really big question: If you want mobile firepower and assault power why are you with Iron Hands? The White Scars do that better.

 

In relation to the drop pod thing, that is a lot of points for near enough no reason to do so (just hide in a ruin or behind LoS terrain then move out since you can move and fire) if you actually DO use the pod for aggressive dropping then you now have a bunch of heavy guns asking over coms why the heck they are in the middle of the enemy (suppose they don't need to worry about aiming too much).

 

However if you want to go mobile (insert bane gif here) I would say that it would be better bringing things like Land Raiders, Razorbacks, Repulsors and Executioners. Have your assortment of troops and other various units that can get in whichever transport you brought and just move out when you have completed your opening volley. I suppose you can use Attack Bikes and Land Speeders but really you only get Land Speeders over White Scars in that regard but really the big difference you have is your improved overwatch and thats about it (the 6+++ isn't actually good imo, more of a nice perk to have but just meh. For context, the raven guard have it better than Iron Hands for ranged resistance from their trait).

 

And no, Iron Hands are not Jack of all Trades. That goes to Ultramarines who have options for all routes, however as Iron Hands you REALLY want to bring big guns but even then as some have discussed, skipping captains means skipping chapter master and skipping Captains means all your other guns fire at no boost. What Iron Hands do well is creating gunlines that if you don't kill, likely will have repaired what you did. Problem is 8th edition as many in prior threads in times past have noted the lethality and killing units is often done fairly easy and most good players would see all your techmarines and not leave half dead tanks (and even then your trait encourages finishing tanks since they are at full effect even at 1/4 health). You maybe get your trick off once or twice but afterwards you ether get your techmarines sniped or your tanks become modern art installations.

 

That said though, Iron Hands will have one of the scariest shooting phases in the game by marine standards just because of how well they can support heavier weapon platforms. Again, I could see triple pred lists running the ironstone with maybe razorbacks backing them up but that is a pretty iffy idea as I haven't done any calculations on how much coverage you can get with the Ironstone (a ~7" diameter bubble of -1 damage could really hamper attempts to kill these tanks). The big thing here though for those tanks is that they are relatively low profile compared to other tanks so can hide behind terrain and using their boost can move from behind these pieces of cover when they are ready to fire and do so with full effect (more so thanks to the boost). Lets not sniff at being able to dart around the board with quad las predators with impunity (and razorbacks too). Hey, even Dakka predators would be fairly nasty (actually, might be the best option though AP4 lascannons is fun).

Lets not talk Vindicators...like lets not. I mean Iron Hands make them better but the D6 shots is just way too swingy imo. I do suppose they are cheap for their stats in some regards but overall they are pretty much like a twin las razorback, only good for anti-tank.

 

Just my thoughts.

[Kallas]

Now as I have been doing...going to ask a really big question: If you want mobile firepower and assault power why are you with Iron Hands? The White Scars do that better.

 

Um, no, they don't?

 

White Scars utilise Assault weapons better, but they aren't better able to leverage fast weapon platforms (eg, Attack Bikes, Land Speeders, Stormtalons/hawks).

 

Iron Hands absolutely utilise those fast, mobile units better, given that they bring innate rerolls and improved accuracy to those Heavy weapons, which White Scars do nothing for.

 

I think if Iron Hands want to increase their mobility, then a pair of Stormhawks are a good idea. They're very good vs other Flyers (and any FLY unit, which is present on quite a lot of powerful units, such as Drukhari Ravagers); with Iron Hands they're ignoring the penalty to move and shoot their Heavy weapons, so can function as solid ground attack fighters; and they get the -1AP and reroll 1s for all of their weapons. Land Speeders are also solid, as they can be kept reasonably cheap (two Heavy Bolters, brings the Speeder to a mighty 65pts and packs in 6 5/-2/1 shots; an average of 2 wounds vs MEQs/3 vs GEQs; or pack in an Assault Cannon/Heavy Bolter for 77pts, which is instead 3 vs MEQs/4.3 vs GEQs), they're fast, fairly hardy for their cost/visible profile, and thanks to FLY and base move 16" they can hop from cover to cover to avoid the firelanes of the enemy's big guns, while also being impossible to lock down in combat to stop them from shooting/hide the enemy unit from your guns.

 

Razorbacks are also good. Base 12" movement, reasonable cost, able to field either anti-tank or anti-infantry weapons as needed and T7/10W adds to threat saturation (depending on the list) as well as potentially shielding other units either with their transport capacity or just their physical profile.

 

Infiltrators/Incursors are also a solid unit for IH. While they don't have much mobility, per se, they start in good positions and can hold on for quite some time if you drop them in cover (and the 6+++ of course). Similarly, the Invictor, while not especially tough compared to a lot of IH vehicles, is fast (base 10" movement), forward deploys, and is still pretty resilient at T6/13W (with 6+++).

 

Personally, I think IH will do best with one or two powerful units alongside Feirros (eg, a Leviathan and a couple of character Ven Dreads) and then the rest of the list can be built around resilient and/or mobile bodies that can act independently.

 

Stormhawks, to me, seem like they will be a brilliant IH unit, at the end of the day. Independently effective, good vs Eldar Flyers (-2 to be hit by them; +1 to hit them in turn with a solid amount of shots that can actually threaten good damage), and able to move where they need to be (as well as still being able to move-block with good positioning).

[TrawlingCleaner]

Snip

 

While I think you have some valid points, I think you have mobility and speed mixed up. Iron hands are not quick, they'll get out paced by pretty much every army bar maybe death guard and TS. They are MOBILE, they have the ability to move with no penalty which means their threat range at full potential is pretty big. There are very few armies that can move and still be firing at their best.

 

The odd thing is that IH actually do, speeders and attack hikes better than WS, in everyway essentially. The big difference between them is that IH get extra AP, ignore heavy AND have reroll 1s. 5+ to hit in OW is incredible but IMO you should never underestimate the 6+++, all you need is to get a couple of saves and your doomed vehicles is still alive and usually on middle bracket even on two wounds.

 

Also, as I've said on multiple other threads: vindicators are up there with land speeders, stalkers and hunters, incredibly underestimated but can and will pull their weight if played correctly. I'm a huge advocate of vindicators and I'm glad they've only gotten better with the IH tactic