Math Request - Grav Centurions Vs Plasma Inceptors

[SyNidus]

Hey guys, I'm wondering if you mathsmiths could help me figure something out...

With the new Grav Amplification stratagem, I was wondering how the centurions stacked up against Plasma Inceptors in terms of damage output, particularly vs T7/ 3+sv targets and above. (So, targets ranging from Rhinos, Repulsors, up to Knights)


I've heard people say that the new stratagem really lets them put the hurt on harder targets. Is this true? Or just wishful thinking? And how does that compare to a squad of Plasma inceptors deepstriking and overcharging?

Edited September 17, 2019 by SyNidus

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Why not take both squads? That’s what I do... very strong.

[Kallas]

Assuming both on their favoured Doctrine; no aura rerolls, just for a baseline.

 

Grav Cents: (average damage is worked out as rerolling only 1s, so 88% chance of 2/3 damage; average is 2.5*0.88=2.2)

Vs T8/4++ (RIS Knights): 4*0.66*0.55*0.5*2.2 = 1.6 damage per Grav Cent

 

Vs T7 or 8/3+ (most vehicles): 4*0.66*0.55*2.2 = 3.2 damage per Grav Cent

 

Vs T5/3+: 4*0.66*0.75 = 2 wounds through; depends on wound count for damage.

 

Plasma Inceptors: (assuming overcharged)

Vs T8/4++: 4*0.66*.0.5*0.5*2 = 1.32 damage (0.66 for minimum shots; 1.98 for max shots) per Plasma Inceptor

 

Vs T7/3+: 4*0.66*0.66*2 = 3.49 (1.75 for min; 5.24 for max)

 

Vs T5/3+: 4*0.66*0.66 = 1.74 (0.87; 2.61)

 

Results:

Vs T8/4++: Grav is better (1.6 vs 1.39 avg)

Vs T7/3+: Plasma is better (3.49 avg vs 3.2)

Vs T5/3+: Grav is better (2 vs 1.74 avg)

Edited September 17, 2019 by Kallas

[SyNidus]

Sorry, I am not mathematically literate....

So does that work out as

Grav better vs everything?

[Dosjetka]

The way I read it (not necessarily correct) is: overcharged plasma Inceptors are marginally better against vehicles but grav Centurions win out against Knights and heavy infantry.

[Kallas]

Vs T8/4++: Grav is better (1.6 vs 1.39 avg)

Vs T7/3+: Plasma is better (3.49 avg vs 3.2)

Vs T5/3+: Grav is better (2 vs 1.74 avg)

[SyNidus]

Vs T8/4++: Grav is better (1.6 vs 1.39 avg)

Vs T7/3+: Plasma is better (3.49 avg vs 3.2)

Vs T5/3+: Grav is better (2 vs 1.74 avg)

 

Cheers Kallas. That's really helped me with my decision.

 

Also Black Blow Fly, I can't take both because, well points wouldn't let me.

[Finkmilkana]

It should be pointed out though that just looking at the dmg per model might not be enough here. On one hand, 3 grav cents are 34 points more expensive than 3 plasma inceptors (assuming Hurricane bolters on the cents) and with 24’ range and 4’ move might have problems reaching juicy backfield targets (unless you deepstrike them via RG). They are also pretty bad against any 4+ vehicle (eldar, necron etc) and obviously require CP.

On the other hand, they are slightly more durable and the hurricane bolters shouldn’t be underestimated. Even against T8, 3+, the bolters add another 0.444 wounds per model (though they usually should be fired at another, more viable target instead).

Edited September 17, 2019 by Finkmilkana

[SyNidus]

Was actually planning to run them with missiles rather than hurricane bolters. And yes, i was planning to get missiles because my list needs more anti-tank/knight/monster firepower.

[Finkmilkana]

Sadly, the missiles are somewhat bad in comparison, only dealing 0.666 dmg per model against T8 4++ on average despite being twice as expensive as the hurricane bolters and ‘specialized’ as anti tank. The main thing they have going for them is the range, which can’t really be utilized since the grav wants to be in 24’ either way.

If you really need ever ounce of anti tank, feel free to take them. They are not terrible, hurricane bolters are just great. I’m also somewhat biased against dedicated S8 anti tank in general and putting all anti tank weapons on a few relatively expensive models specifically.

[duz_]

For those 34pts though you don't risk killing the model on 1s

[Dracos]

I couldn't imagine wanting to run either without a reroll "1" buff nearby though. I mean you can but .... just no lol.

[duz_]

So then you have to factor in a captain too

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Was actually planning to run them with missiles rather than hurricane bolters. And yes, i was planning to get missiles because my list needs more anti-tank/knight/monster firepower.

Cents can always move and rapid fire. I believe three Cents with Hurricane Bolters equates to 36 shots... they can shred chaff and armor simultaneously.

[Dracos]

So then you have to factor in a captain too

Which naturally buffs the unit with the higher number of shots and / or attacks. Assuming Hurricane then Cents. Thing is, for me at least ... How much do you value the Cents durability over the Inceptors manuverability?

[duz_]

I've never been much of a fan of Cents

From a lore perspective I find them too slow and cumbersome to integrate well with a fast moving RG army

 

My point though cost and effectiveness is a bit more grey when u factor in requirements of supporting characters particularly for plasma which can blow themselves up when overcharging

Yes they'll buff the devs too but they don't need one to avoid killing themselves

 

My takeaway is the numbers are surprisingly close across the board and just take what you want :D

Points investment and mobility would be the deciding factors for me

 

(I lie my decision is actually made I own 6 plasma inceptors and 0 Centurions :lol: )

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

DevCents are an absolutely amazing unit in terms of game play and tbh I could give a flip regarding the lore.

[SyNidus]

Ironically, i've got 9 centurions (which i had painted up as night lords obliterators)...But since TOs here say they aren't the right size for Oblits, i'll be bringing them back to the imperium's fold as RG DevCents...So I'm planning to field a squad of 5.