Lieutenant vs Chaplain's Catechism of Fire

[THUNDERFISTS]

I have a conundrum: should I include a Chaplain with the new Litany, Catechism of Fire for +1 to wound against the nearest unit, or slot in a Lieutenant to re-roll 1's to wound in a bubble?

 

I'm playing Iron Hands and specifically looking at buffing a Leviathan with twin Storm Cannons, but can also help with Repulsors/Executioners or another big beef boy. 

 

Chaplain positives:

- Better in melee, could be buffed more with the relic

- +1 to wound is mathematically better than rerolling 1's

- Doesn't rely on a bubble or "castle" set up

- Invulnerable save

- Cool skull helmet

Negatives:

- 3+ Litany means there's a 33% chance it wont go off and needs a CP reroll

- Targeting the closest unit may not need to be the one that needs to die

- Litany only targets one unit, admittedly the one that needs it

- Marginally more expensive

 

Lieutenant positives:

- Marginally cheaper

- Buffs everyone within 6"

- Indiscriminate rerolling goodness

- Memes

Negatives:

- Reroll not as good mathmatically as +1 to wound

- Bubbles

- Less buff and no invuln

- Less skulls

 

What do you think? I'm open to trying out other Litanies (haven't used any yet!) but only Catechism will really benefit a Leviathan shooting.

[Mandragola]

I think this depends on the approach you're taking. Are you building a castle of repulsors and dreadnoughts, or are your units roaming around?

 

If building a castle then the lieutenant is far better, as he buffs them all. Give him a gun (a clear advantage he has over the chaplain) and the ironstone. Keep your tanks alive and make them wound a lot. Good times. Also as someone is going to want to take the Ironstone, the Chaplain's ability to take the relic Crozuis is less awesome. He's either going to have to pay for it with a CP or not have the relic beatstick.

 

If you're going for a more flexibile approach, with your tanks running around on their own, then the chaplain might be a better option.

 

Finally, I have a feeling that it's better to have +1 to hit than +1 to wound. Negative modifiers to hit are pretty common so it's good to be able to mitigate them. If Feirros makes a unit hit on a 2+ and a chaplain gives it +1 to hit, even Eldar flyers could have issues.

[9x19 Parabellum]

I"m facing the same conundrum, and tonight I'm trying out a chaplain.  I'm not convinced it's the actual better choice, but I do like the theme and fluff of Chaplains better. Lts are just so....blah.  I'm not sure it's correct to say the Chaplain is better in combat, though.  They both hit on 2's with 3 attacks.  The Chaplain can only do one of his Rites, so if you're doing Catechism of fire it means you're NOT doing the standard Littany of Hate.   Assuming you are talking non-primaris, they both have access to good melee weapons so it's not like the Chaplains standard crozius beats the Lt.s standard power sword (as it does for Primaris versions, who can't really adjust their load-outs the way  jr. marines can.)

 

What the Chaplain really has over the Lt. is the morale buff. Given, for Marines, this is really only important when you're playing with big squads of 10, I'd say the deciding factor you want to look at is how big your units are. If they are max sized, go with Chappy, if MSU, go with Libby. 

[casb1965]

Lieutenant is better than Chaplain IMHO simply due to the fact he buffs every unit within 6" and if you're playing IH put him in a transport for measuring 6" from hull for his buff.

[crazyterran]

Character auras don't work while you are inside a vehicle, so you can't extend a LT's range by putting him in a Rhino. 

[Dracos]

I think the Primaris Chaplain is a better buff for Aggressors

[Deadman Wade]

I like chaplains cause they can take whatever litany you need for battle. Lt's rerolls are more reliable, but sometimes you need better melee, or better to-hit (plasma, anyone?), chaplain makes far better beatstick than Lt and can take some nasty hits on his 4++ save.

So for twelve points chaplain gets D2 weapon, 4++, Ld bubble and two buffs.

[Captain Idaho]

Chaplains are great and I use one but they don't operate so well from a transport since you need to use their hymns at the start of a battle round.

 

Chaplains are great leading a fast moving assault force using a Jump Pack and also contribute well to a shooting force, they just don't like being cooped up in a transport.

[Mandragola]

Yeah the timing issues for Chaplains are really bad, mostly. Can't use their buffs at all unless they're on the board at the start of the battle round. The target needs to be there too, for the +1 to wound litany. This is particularly bad if you're going second, since your opponent knows who you buffed and can just shoot them dead.

 

However, this weakness can also be a strength. There are some mean combos where you can put up a litany at the start of the first battle round and then use the RG warlord trait to teleport across the board.  Of course, a LT could also do this without needing to succeed on the litany.

[quasistellar]

Chaplains definitely now have their uses, but they don't negate lieutenants IMO. Chaplain litanies can fail, after all.

 

Personally I don't think I'd build a space marine list these days without both (barring salamanders, maybe).

[Bukimimaru]

Now that the Chaplains only get to buff things on a 3+, I've had absolutely no luck with them.

They always fail at the worst possible time. T_T