Eliminators - Weapon Options

[Bukimimaru]

I had a quick search of the SM forums and I couldn't see this as a topic yet, so i thought I'd make a thread about our new Primaris Eliminators.

 

How are people finding them?

Are we keeping them with their standard loadouts or is it worth spending the extra points for the Las fusils?

 

I run a pure Primaris army and we have anti-infantry units coming out the wazoo, but outside of the Repulsor we have very little in the way of decent anti-tank. 

 

Before I build my new models, I was wondering if people thought the Las-fusils were worth their very steep points cost.

 

 

[zero88]

If you are only running one squad with Fusils, I'd attach a Phobos Libby with them to cast shrouding and soul sight

[Link2edition]

I modeled mine with the sniper rifles, Going to try them out tonight.

I run a mix of primaris and firstborn though, so I already have anti-tank options.

[Bukimimaru]

If you are only running one squad with Fusils, I'd attach a Phobos Libby with them to cast shrouding and soul sight

 

I run Black Templars, so no Librarians for me I'm afraid. >_<

[Mandragola]

It hugely depends on which chapter you're running. For BT Primaris-only force then las-fusils are probably a good bet, but you will probably also want some hellblasters and suppressors.

 

Otherwise I think the bolt sniper rifles are great. They have more synergy with things like Ravenguard and Imperial Fist rules than las fusils do.

[Happy-inquisitor]

The las fusils look really cool but limited as I am to just 3 units of these bad boys I think I am taking sniper rifles all the way.

 

Now admittedly that is an easier decision playing Crimson Fists but the sheer flexibility of the weapons is superb. Three units with sniper rifles will be pretty much first thing on every list once I get them built.

[Link2edition]

It seems to me like Devastators fill the anti-tank role better, that's why I am keeping the sniper rifles.

[CCE1981]

Played against an Ironhands list with 3 units of Sniper Eliminators. Luckily I got first turn and took two units out. I forgot about the last unit, they did 3 wounds on my Gravis Chapter Master before I took them out. The Sniper Rifles are no joke. As Ravenguard, 3x Sniper Rifles in a Squad are going to hurt!

[Dracos]

Las-fusils make Heavy Plasma Incinerators useless  They cost almost exactly the same points per model and the Eliminators are such a step above Hellblasters it's ridiculous.  Why GW why?

[CaptainMarsh]

The Bolt Sniper Rifles give you an excellent capability you otherwise lack at the same level of effectiveness. The same can not be said of the Las-Fusils.

[Panzer]

Heavy Plasma Incinerators were never a really good choice to begin with so if Las-fusils weren't better there would be no point in taking them either.

 

Personally since I play Blood Angels and often end up in melee I'm probably going with the Sniper variant. Characters aren't harder to kill in melee but they are often harder to reach. The buff to Aggressors definitely helps with that decision too.

[Lemondish]

Las-fusils make Heavy Plasma Incinerators useless They cost almost exactly the same points per model and the Eliminators are such a step above Hellblasters it's ridiculous. Why GW why?

Heavy plasma have always been pretty weak, but in their defense, most matched play games limit you to 3 units of Eliminators. With the bolt sniper rifle acting as a pretty potent character hunter above and beyond sniper scouts, it becomes a little hard to commit to the fusil for me. I think that helps Hellblasters maintain a position in the running.

[Cap'm Heckus]

Any thoughts on the instigator Bolter on the sergeant? D2 AP -1 and lets you retreat from charges after firing overwatch. If you plan to have him forego shooting for the +1 hit/wound anyway it doesn't seem bad.

[Panzer]

In a unit of Snipers any time unless you dislike the thought of killing off the Sergeant first or want the slightly less average damage output in hope to get those sweet damage spikes of a potential 4 more damage.

In a unit of Las-fusils I'd rather have the higher potential damage output I think.

Edited September 24, 2019 by sfPanzer

[Link2edition]

Any thoughts on the instigator Bolter on the sergeant? D2 AP -1 and lets you retreat from charges after firing overwatch. If you plan to have him forego shooting for the +1 hit/wound anyway it doesn't seem bad.

It costs more than the sniper rifles, and isn't as deadly. I say give them all snipers and put them where they are unlikely to be charged. Even though he will be guiding fire most of the time, sometimes you NEED that third shot.

[Lemondish]

 

 

Any thoughts on the instigator Bolter on the sergeant? D2 AP -1 and lets you retreat from charges after firing overwatch. If you plan to have him forego shooting for the +1 hit/wound anyway it doesn't seem bad.

It costs more than the sniper rifles, and isn't as deadly. I say give them all snipers and put them where they are unlikely to be charged. Even though he will be guiding fire most of the time, sometimes you NEED that third shot.

Any amount of rerolls also make it more reliable to shoot with him rather than always guide. That will be true if you have a phobos captain sniping nearby, or you're Iron Hands.

[Dracos]

.... or Master Artisans

[Lemondish]

.... or Master Artisans

Yep! Totally forgot about that one. Bolter Fusillades as well, provided you're using the sniper rifle.

[Bluflash]

I thought I read the 50% increase in mortal wounds on Mortis rounds exceeds the potential of the third shot even with Master Artisan/Re-roll 1's to hit.

Anyone personally crunched the math recently?

[Panzer]

I thought I read the 50% increase in mortal wounds on Mortis rounds exceeds the potential of the third shot even with Master Artisan/Re-roll 1's to hit.

Anyone personally crunched the math recently?

 

Matter of fact, I did just recently. ^^

 

The average damage output of a full unit of 3 Eliminators against various targets. Mortal wounds are included (yes, the MW on a 5+ with the sergeant buff is factored in).

 

At some point it just becomes a question of when is reliable reliable enough and you rather want more potential damage instead?

Edited September 24, 2019 by sfPanzer

[Bluflash]

Thanks!! Master Artisans should approximate Cap + Lt, but slightly less reliable, yeah? Choice of rerolls is a pain to math out. 

[Happy-inquisitor]

 

I thought I read the 50% increase in mortal wounds on Mortis rounds exceeds the potential of the third shot even with Master Artisan/Re-roll 1's to hit.

Anyone personally crunched the math recently?

 

Matter of fact, I did just recently. ^^

 

The average damage output of a full unit of 3 Eliminators against various targets. Mortal wounds are included (yes, the MW on a 5+ with the sergeant buff is factored in).

 

At some point it just becomes a question of when is reliable reliable enough and you rather want more potential damage instead?

 

 

Interesting. I did some working out for Crimson/Imperial fists and going with the Chapter Master was quite nice there. I calculated

With Chapter Master + Lt vs Space Marine Captain -> 3.24

Same but when unit has moved -> 2.91

 

My concern was to avoid the unit being too static and being vulnerable to bits of LOS blocking shutting them down. With Fists bonus hits on 6s and a chapter master they were quite resilient to that -1 penalty.

[StormLion]

Why not take 2 Las and a sniper or vice versa? I'm planning on trying it out once I get mine.

[Panzer]

Why not take 2 Las and a sniper or vice versa? I'm planning on trying it out once I get mine.

 

Because with just one unit of either you won't feel the needed impact in a game. You will want at least two units of a type so they can do their job properly.

[Karhedron]

Any thoughts on the instigator Bolter on the sergeant? D2 AP -1 and lets you retreat from charges after firing overwatch. If you plan to have him forego shooting for the +1 hit/wound anyway it doesn't seem bad.

The +1 to Hit/Wound is not as good as an extra shot in most cases. BUT the ability to fall back from charges is really useful against melee armies.

 

If running with Las Fussils, I would say that the points saved by giving the serg and Instigator are probably worth it. For Snipers, I am not so sure as you are not saving points. Combined with some Infiltrators though you can seriously mess with any units that want to get into melee.