Lemondish Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 I thought I read the 50% increase in mortal wounds on Mortis rounds exceeds the potential of the third shot even with Master Artisan/Re-roll 1's to hit. Anyone personally crunched the math recently? Matter of fact, I did just recently. ^^ The average damage output of a full unit of 3 Eliminators against various targets. Mortal wounds are included (yes, the MW on a 5+ with the sergeant buff is factored in). At some point it just becomes a question of when is reliable reliable enough and you rather want more potential damage instead? I am definitely missing something because my numbers are nowhere near those... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358655-eliminators-weapon-options/page/2/#findComment-5396786 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 Any thoughts on the instigator Bolter on the sergeant? D2 AP -1 and lets you retreat from charges after firing overwatch. If you plan to have him forego shooting for the +1 hit/wound anyway it doesn't seem bad.The +1 to Hit/Wound is not as good as an extra shot in most cases. BUT the ability to fall back from charges is really useful against melee armies. If running with Las Fussils, I would say that the points saved by giving the serg and Instigator are probably worth it. For Snipers, I am not so sure as you are not saving points. Combined with some Infiltrators though you can seriously mess with any units that want to get into melee. The +1 to hit and wound is actually better in all cases. That's not even counting the mortal wound proc chance increasing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358655-eliminators-weapon-options/page/2/#findComment-5396828 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy-inquisitor Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 I am definitely missing something because my numbers are nowhere near those... I have not checked them all but they seemed in the right ballpark - a bit less than I was getting when calculating for Imperial Fists because of the chapter tactic. The extra mortal wounds help and damage averaging 2 helps. So for example I get this vs a plain vanilla SM Captain shots hits bonus hits total hits to wound bonus mortal dmg after save sum damage 3 2.666667 0.666667 3.333333 2.592593 0.648148 2.592593 3.240741 With a Chapter Master and Lt buffing 3 IF sniper eliminators. What sorts of numbers were you getting? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358655-eliminators-weapon-options/page/2/#findComment-5396859 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtleknife Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 So has anyone found a way to magnatise the weapon options? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358655-eliminators-weapon-options/page/2/#findComment-5396945 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Shift Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 So has anyone found a way to magnatise the weapon options? Not tried myself, just bought an easy build reiver box and made a second unit on the cheap. The bolter on the sergeant looks cool but seems a bit of a waste to me. There's not many situations where the extra shots aren't better imo. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358655-eliminators-weapon-options/page/2/#findComment-5396998 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galron Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 I have mine with instigator with my RG. T2 hitting on 2s and MWs on a 4+ sounds pretty good to me. I haven't decided yet with the 2nd squad I have yet to assemble. I don't know if 3 5+ MWs is more effective than 2 4+ MWs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358655-eliminators-weapon-options/page/2/#findComment-5397094 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 I would just take one squad with sniper rifles but the las is really good too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358655-eliminators-weapon-options/page/2/#findComment-5397100 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 I am definitely missing something because my numbers are nowhere near those... I have not checked them all but they seemed in the right ballpark - a bit less than I was getting when calculating for Imperial Fists because of the chapter tactic. The extra mortal wounds help and damage averaging 2 helps. So for example I get this vs a plain vanilla SM Captain shots hits bonus hits total hits to wound bonus mortal dmg after save sum damage 3 2.666667 0.666667 3.333333 2.592593 0.648148 2.592593 3.240741 With a Chapter Master and Lt buffing 3 IF sniper eliminators. What sorts of numbers were you getting? I think it's the way I was considering the impact of the mortal wounds. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358655-eliminators-weapon-options/page/2/#findComment-5397224 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 Any thoughts on the instigator Bolter on the sergeant? D2 AP -1 and lets you retreat from charges after firing overwatch. If you plan to have him forego shooting for the +1 hit/wound anyway it doesn't seem bad.The +1 to Hit/Wound is not as good as an extra shot in most cases. BUT the ability to fall back from charges is really useful against melee armies. The +1 to hit and wound is actually better in all cases. That's not even counting the mortal wound proc chance increasing. You appear to be correct, I need to do my maths more carefully. 2 Shots with +1 to Hit/Wound is slightly better than 3 shots on average although you do lose the chance to get lucky if you roll well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358655-eliminators-weapon-options/page/2/#findComment-5397231 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Sacrifice Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 I love math hammer, it's all kinds of fun. I'll be running the 3 from the shadow spear box. I'm very tempted by another set sporting las fusils but I have a feeling they'll be squeezed out of most of my lists. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358655-eliminators-weapon-options/page/2/#findComment-5397828 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emicus Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 We've got some fairly tall buildings where I play, so I'm thinking 1 fusil, 2 sniper units and a Vanguard chapter master. Infiltrate on a building with excellent line of sight, hard/impossible to charge and a 1+ save in cover. Full rerolls to hit, maybe seal of oath to be cruel.... 1 unit of snipers seem a little anemic to kill anything, easier to shut down too. 3 seem like a bit much. The fusils on the other hand... Help bulk out the infiltrating footprint sort of thing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358655-eliminators-weapon-options/page/2/#findComment-5398154 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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