Hidden gems?

[MajorNese]

Inspired by the entire "everyone runs Feirros+Leviathan" discussions - what might be hidden gems that may not be that famous, but still more than usable with our supplement?

 

 

With the models around anyway, I intend to try Tarantula sentry guns. They are a staple for my Raptors lists, denying large areas for deep strike while thinning chaff ranks, and a nice speedbump for the more aggressive armies. In our case, they make better use of Feirros' targeting array (at usually BS4+), resulting in that nice rerollable 2+ to hit. Automated Targeting might still make them a bit unwieldy, but it's a cheap way of spamming more heavy weapons.

 

Twin assault cannons, on a unit of 3, racks up 192p for 12W T5 - which might not be the most resilient choice we have, but averages 35 hits S6 AP-2 per round, or 14 hits in overwatch (without CM around), making it near suicidal to charge with the usual 10 GEQ squads or 5 MEQ squads. The cheaper heavy bolter variants combined with a single twin lascannon works too, being considerably cheaper and packing AT as well as anti chaff.

 

Bonus points for their ability to entirely ignore the fact that someone is within 1" of them. Not only can they still fire unimpeded (yes, at the very unit currently hitting them), but also your remaining army can shoot that target too. I've had more than one opponent run their units into CC with a tarantula to save them from getting shot, only to get shot by both the tarantula and everyone around. With their base size, that's also a nice wall to block movement/CC.

[faithonwings]

Food for thought... I love this..

 

Was thinking about landspeeders. A heavy bolter and assault cannon is 77 points and proffits a lot from the IH trait. Also, there is a strat that gives a LS unit 4++ or 3++ when advancing making it quite tough to get of An objective

[MajorNese]

Yep, land speeders sound usable too. Though my thoughts were rather about the missile+HB version, sitting atop a ruin (for that nice 2+ save) until in need of repositioning. Which it can still do without penalty.

 

There are quite a few units in the codex that get penalties for moving, though moving is part of their job. LandSpeeders are a prime example, Suppressors/Vindicators/Invictors and dreads of any kind come to mind without even factoring in FW.

 

Another idea: Deathstorm drop pods.

They fire 2 krak missiles into every target in range - at fully opened doors and 18" range, that's a large percentage of the board, and quite a few missiles. Usually not very accurate at BS4+ and deep striking (=moving) on the first turn. But again, Feirros can increase that to that nice rerollable 2+. Though it will probably draw fire immediately after it has fired once...

[Iron Father Ferrum]

1. Stalkers. Given the prevalence of FLY units in xenos and C:SM armies and in combination with other assets, Stalkers are magnificent. Eldar Flying Circuses are a pain, right? So hit them with 6 S7 AP-2 shots that reroll 1s. Oh no, it's an Alaitoc ship at -3 to hit? The Icarus guns are inherently +1 vs FLY. Skyfire stratagem is another +1. Blessing of the Machine God is another +1, bringing us right back to a 3+ to hit. S7 with Skyfire gives you a 2+ to wound, and any 6s do double damage. You can easily pull a fighter out of the sky every turn, and they have utility against ground units too because BotMG counters the -1 to hit non-FLY units. They're also T8, so meltas, missiles, and lances need a 4+ to wound.

 

2. Stormhawks. They're great against Eldar fighters too, if you don't want to invest heavily in Stalkers. Icarus and Skyhammer rounds stack with the Interceptor rule, so a total +2 to hit FLY with them and a +1 for the assault cannons.

[RandomMarine]

Whirlwind parking lot, dakka Redemptor spam and aggressors (for holding objectives)

[faithonwings]

1. Doing some math, even hitting a flyer on 2's rerolling and wounding on 2's with 6's doing double damage you'r doing 7,5 wounds a turn. It's great for it's costs, but won't drop a flyer unless you are lucky.

 

2. Stormhawk isn't a hidden gem in my humble oppionion (there was whole topic about it and the tallons) but yes, it is very good. When going heavy bolters it's also one of the most efficiënt chaff killers point for point. (Very close to the tallons)

Whirlwind parking lot, dakka Redemptor spam and aggressors (for holding objectives)

What version whirwind for what purpose? (Chaff killing? Anti tank?)

[RandomMarine]

AT whirlwinds

[Guest Iron Father Bahadur]

Suppressors are rapidly becoming my mvps when it comes to objective seizing and firepower to points.

[Rodrick]

  StormHawks , if im not mistaken, they get -1 extra vs flyers, and it happens that repulsors are flyers!

 

also redemptor are not the ugly duck they once were !

[Raktra]

Sicarans for anti-flyer for me. Base one never takes negatives on its accelerator cannons for aiming at them, makes up for the lack of Dev doctrine bonus to me.

[Dark Legionnare]

Inspired by the entire "everyone runs Feirros+Leviathan" discussions - what might be hidden gems that may not be that famous, but still more than usable with our supplement?

 

 

With the models around anyway, I intend to try Tarantula sentry guns. They are a staple for my Raptors lists, denying large areas for deep strike while thinning chaff ranks, and a nice speedbump for the more aggressive armies. In our case, they make better use of Feirros' targeting array (at usually BS4+), resulting in that nice rerollable 2+ to hit. Automated Targeting might still make them a bit unwieldy, but it's a cheap way of spamming more heavy weapons.

 

Twin assault cannons, on a unit of 3, racks up 192p for 12W T5 - which might not be the most resilient choice we have, but averages 35 hits S6 AP-2 per round, or 14 hits in overwatch (without CM around), making it near suicidal to charge with the usual 10 GEQ squads or 5 MEQ squads. The cheaper heavy bolter variants combined with a single twin lascannon works too, being considerably cheaper and packing AT as well as anti chaff.

 

Bonus points for their ability to entirely ignore the fact that someone is within 1" of them. Not only can they still fire unimpeded (yes, at the very unit currently hitting them), but also your remaining army can shoot that target too. I've had more than one opponent run their units into CC with a tarantula to save them from getting shot, only to get shot by both the tarantula and everyone around. With their base size, that's also a nice wall to block movement/CC.

I came really close to buying a couple on eBay back in Spring.  You're making we want to do it again.  For the exact same reasons you listed here, I figured I'd drop a couple into a list when I was looking at them back in the day!

 

They're just so f'in expensive... I justified all my krieg stuff from FW, because "it's Krieg", but for sentry guns? They're a steep-cost kit, though I am heavily tempted!

[Exilyth]

Landspeeders & attack bikes: A bit squishy, but relatively cheap & mobile heavy weapons.

[faithonwings]

  StormHawks , if im not mistaken, they get -1 extra vs flyers, and it happens that repulsors are flyers!

 

also redemptor are not the ugly duck they once were !

 

What loadout would you give the Hawk? Full icarus and rockets is cheap but only S7 kind of sucks vs T8. Lastallon would work that makes is expensive points wise.

[ERJAK]

Ironhands gotta go fast, 9 land speeders, 3 stormhawks.

 

Always choose to go second huddled around feiros and the ironstone then blast 20 or more inches around the board.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I go with Icarus and Skyhammer because they get extra benefits against FLY...and it is an Interceptor, after all. T8 FLY is comparatively rare, most being T7 or lower. Repulsors are the big ones that spring to mind and I have lascannons that can deal with them.

[Rodrick]

 

  StormHawks , if im not mistaken, they get -1 extra vs flyers, and it happens that repulsors are flyers!

 

also redemptor are not the ugly duck they once were !

 

What loadout would you give the Hawk? Full icarus and rockets is cheap but only S7 kind of sucks vs T8. Lastallon would work that makes is expensive points wise.

 

 

icarus and typhoon ML, vs T8  and 2 laspreds  vs T8,

 

stormhawks with that layout are a good all-arounder,

 

you have different specialized  sources of S9 to deal with T8 , even devastators in cover with a couple stratagems are super though , 

 

and centurions devs are immortal in cover with trans-human strat and feirros 5++ , you can throw in to the mix, 5+ FNP strat even

[faithonwings]

I would very much like to try those Typhone launchers. Been using h bolters mostly until now

[MajorNese]

Since no one expects the spanish inquisition - how about a bit of a sneaky sledgehammer?

 

Invictors are, except for -1T, exactly as resilient as Redemptors, yet cheaper and deployable by Concealed Positions for a guaranteed first turn charge.

In dev doctrine, each packs 6 shots S4 AP-2, 3 shots S5 AP-2, and d6 shots S4 AP0. Plus its main gun, which is either 2d6 hits S5 AP-2 or 6 shots S7 AP-2 2D.

If deploying a group of 3, that's more than enough dakka to clear any screens and probably have shots to spare, before charging. With good deployment, 10" move and chaff clearence, they might even be able to kill/charge important characters turn 1. And with traditional gunlines not always having units to Infiltrate (and thereby block Concealed Positions with their own units), one could deploy them last to prevent any counter setup.

 

That's frankly a lot of pressure from turn 1 on, and will kill/divert units and firepower that may have been earmarked for the midfield.

Leave them alone, and they will rampage through the backfield. Don't leave them alone, and the remaining army is free to do whatever it wants to do.

 

The one thing that makes this approach questionable is the abundance of light AT - the usual autocannon/plasma profile, S7 with decent AP and 2D. Against the usual massed S4/S5 fire, they are just as resilient as T7, and S6 weaponry is rather rare nowadays.

So they need the Ironstone to hang around significantly longer - thankfully the Phobos Librarian/Captain have Concealed Positions as well, making the Invictors considerably more resilient even if we don't have 1st turn to move up a relic bearer, and those guys got quite a lot cheaper with the codex.

 

The total cost would be slightly below 500p when including a character.

It's more of a risk than the plug-and-play setups with a leviathan, but could decide the flow of battle from the start.

Also the remaining army should be rather mobile to close in and keep up the concentration of force, but there are ways to do that.

[MeltaRange]

I was thinking about carriers for the Ironstone.  There are some real beefy characters like Gravis Captain who could easily carry it, but how about a Phobos Librarian using the "Shrouding" Psychic Power to make him completely immune to any shooting, including snipers?

[MajorNese]

Yes, that would work. But if you don't have first turn or mess up that power, triple Eliminators would statistically inflict between 3W and 4W (depending on rerolls) ignoring LoS, with RG shenanigans that guy might die that turn.

 

Except for his psychic ability, he has neither good armour nor wounds, toughness or invul. As RG player, I'd suggest a gravis captain and some brick vehicle to break LoS.

[faithonwings]

You can still use the martyrdom strat vs snipers. I also would make him the warlord and give him te fleash is wreak wl trait, which stacks with the stratagem to give An infantry unit a +1 to ignoring wounds (aka FNP). 4+ to ignore wounds and then a 2+ to pass over the wound (that, if am not mistaken, can make a 6+++ save vs the mortal wound inflicted in this way)

[MajorNese]

So...you intend a psychic power to go off (and not Perils-ing that guy instead), reserve a WL trait, then the FnP strat and then the Martyrdom strat...that's a lot more investment and layers than should be necessary.

 

In that case I'd just stick with a gravis captain, and have a full squad of Intercessors around for the martyrdom strat. T5, 4++ and more wounds help by default, and when facing massed snipers, the martyrdom strat alone takes out 83% of the wounds. No need to make it overly complicated and burn CP on things you might not have needed in the first place.

[Charlo]

Invictor Suits and a Phobos Librarian with the Ironstone is NASTY. Great turn one pressure combo right there for sure.

[Warmachine90]

How about a combination of speed and steel rain?

I'm thinking off a good amount of Drop Pods with Tacticals and Devastators (I think Multi-Meltas might need a test) raining in front off or near by the enemy. And Land Speeders, maybe even Bikers, rushing in.

Releasing the (imperial) Blitz.

 

Or a big Tankforce. Predators, Sicarans or a Spartan delivering the Angels of Death to the enemy.

[Aothaine]

1) [T] Scout Squad (5-man): Sniper Rifle x4, Missile Launcher x1 in Land Speeder Storm w/ Heavy Bolter

 

*Saw this from Morticon's post in the Blood Angels forum

 

2) Attack Bike Squads with Multi-Meltas or Heavy Bolters

 

3) Land Speeders with heavy weapons (People have been mentioning this as well)

 

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It is strange how a few rules can make a army so powerful. Moving and firing heavy weapons without penalty, additional -1 ap for the heavy weapons and reroll 1s on heavy weapons is SO good. To top this off the army has a 6+ FNP save. IH are crazy strong right now.

 

If I was going to build a list right now I would most likely do something like this.

 

[HQ] Librarian in Phobos Armour: Bolt Pistol, Force Sword, Frag/Krak Grenades, Camo Cloak

 

[HQ] Librarian in Phobos Armour: Bolt Pistol, Force Sword, Frag/Krak Grenades, Camo Cloak

 

[HQ] Librarian in Phobos Armour: Bolt Pistol, Force Sword, Frag/Krak Grenades, Camo Cloak

 

[E] Invictor Tactical Warsuit: Fragstorm Grenade Launcher, Heavy Bolter, Twin Ironhail Autocannon, 2 Ironhail Heavy Stubbers, Invictor Fist

 

[E] Invictor Tactical Warsuit: Fragstorm Grenade Launcher, Heavy Bolter, Twin Ironhail Autocannon, 2 Ironhail Heavy Stubbers, Invictor Fist

 

[E] Invictor Tactical Warsuit: Fragstorm Grenade Launcher, Heavy Bolter, Twin Ironhail Autocannon, 2 Ironhail Heavy Stubbers, Invictor Fist

 

[T] Scout Squad (5-man): Sniper Rifle x4, Missile Launcher x1 in Land Speeder Storm w/ Heavy Bolter

 

[T] Scout Squad (5-man): Sniper Rifle x4, Missile Launcher x1 in Land Speeder Storm w/ Heavy Bolter

 

[T] Scout Squad (5-man): Sniper Rifle x4, Missile Launcher x1 in Land Speeder Storm w/ Heavy Bolter

 

[T] Scout Squad (5-man): Sniper Rifle x4, Missile Launcher x1 in Land Speeder Storm w/ Heavy Bolter

 

[T] Scout Squad (5-man): Sniper Rifle x4, Missile Launcher x1 in Land Speeder Storm w/ Heavy Bolter

 

[T] Scout Squad (5-man): Sniper Rifle x4, Missile Launcher x1 in Land Speeder Storm w/ Heavy Bolter

 

[FA] Attack Bike Squad (3-man): Twin Boltgun x3, Multi-Melta x3

 

[FA] Attack Bike Squad (3-man): Twin Boltgun x3, Multi-Melta x3

 

[FA] Attack Bike Squad (3-man): Twin Boltgun x3, Multi-Melta x3

 

[HS] Thunderfire Cannon x3