Let's talk about GW's recent wording with successors

[Marshal Rohr]

If you painted it blue with shoulder trim in a proper company color, and a WHITE ultramarines symbol on the left shoulder pad, and proper company markings on the right shoulder pad, also the eye lenses need to be red, and the bolter has to be metallic with a black casing...

 

If you're going to rules lawyer a paint scheme, at least do it right, if your army isnt painted to exactly the standards as GW you cant even play it!

Yeah, you should do all of those things. Pretty straight forward.

[Lord_Caerolion]

Idk about you but I play in the dark imperium time period exclusively so I require the exact paint schemes as outlined in the 8th edition space marine codex! /s

 

So are the Red Era Ultramarines. Well, maybe not Era Indomitus, but they had that colouration in 40k fluff up to at least the Tyrannic War. Bright orange bolters forever!

[Frostbit3]

That’s the issue with the double standard. You know it when you see it with space marines and probably orks, but not with tyranids or dark eldar or necrons.

[Lemondish]

I think you are assuming it is for competitive advantage and not style of play or for fun.

 

Further, it isn't bad or wrong for someone to want to play at a competitive advantage. It's just a different playstyle. It isn't inherently bad.

 

If you don't like that style, that is okay too. But I keep seeing people complain about others who want to win in a match and I find that deeply confusing.

[Panzer]

If you painted it blue with shoulder trim in a proper company color, and a WHITE ultramarines symbol on the left shoulder pad, and proper company markings on the right shoulder pad, also the eye lenses need to be red, and the bolter has to be metallic with a black casing...

 

If you're going to rules lawyer a paint scheme, at least do it right, if your army isnt painted to exactly the standards as GW you cant even play it!

 

Except that it's about the heraldry. Neither eye lenses nor bolter casings are relevant.

 

If anything, it's fine to paint your Ultramarines however you want as long as the left shoulder pad is painted in blue with a white ultramarines symbol and proper company colour and the right shoulder pad with company markings, since the Codex Astartes "allows" Marines to wear camouflage etc.

 

So if you want have an argument, at least do it right.

Edited October 21, 2019 by sfPanzer

[Lemondish]

 

 

If you painted it blue with shoulder trim in a proper company color, and a WHITE ultramarines symbol on the left shoulder pad, and proper company markings on the right shoulder pad, also the eye lenses need to be red, and the bolter has to be metallic with a black casing...

 

If you're going to rules lawyer a paint scheme, at least do it right, if your army isnt painted to exactly the standards as GW you cant even play it!

Except that it's about the heraldry. Neither eye lenses nor bolter casings are relevant.

 

If anything, it's fine to paint your Ultramarines however you want as long as the left shoulder pad is painted in blue with a white ultramarines symbol and proper company colour and the right shoulder pad with company markings, since the Codex Astartes "allows" Marines to wear camouflage etc.

 

So if you want have an argument, at least do it right.

Proper company colour is necessary for you? That's interesting.

 

Does this extend to Characters for other Chapters? Like say I want Tor to join my army, but it's a 5th company force, would that bother you?

[Panzer]

 

 

If you painted it blue with shoulder trim in a proper company color, and a WHITE ultramarines symbol on the left shoulder pad, and proper company markings on the right shoulder pad, also the eye lenses need to be red, and the bolter has to be metallic with a black casing...

 

If you're going to rules lawyer a paint scheme, at least do it right, if your army isnt painted to exactly the standards as GW you cant even play it!

Except that it's about the heraldry. Neither eye lenses nor bolter casings are relevant.

 

If anything, it's fine to paint your Ultramarines however you want as long as the left shoulder pad is painted in blue with a white ultramarines symbol and proper company colour and the right shoulder pad with company markings, since the Codex Astartes "allows" Marines to wear camouflage etc.

 

So if you want have an argument, at least do it right.

Proper company colour is necessary for you? That's interesting.

 

Does this extend to Characters for other Chapters? Like say I want Tor to join my army, but it's a 5th company force, would that bother you?

 

 

I was just playing on what he wrote. As long as there aren't any company rules I don't care for those lol

[Marshal van Trapp]

No no no, the page on ultramarines in the 8th edition codex CLEARLY has red eye lenses and a black bolter casing! If you get to nitpick other people's choice of color scheme then I'm going to nitpick the choice of detail color, because that's what this has devolved into, nitpicking!

 

I'm going to explicitly not paint any heraldry on my new DIY chapter just so I can use them as whatever because without any identification they're just generic marines right?

 

I'm honestly done with the "powergamers are the only people who play blue iron hands" mentally, If I want to play a DiY chapter that is specifically trained to operate in small fire teams against insurmountable odds, I am going to use the Crimson Fists rules regardless of what color my marines are painted, and if anyone DOESN'T want to play against me because I dont want to paint MY models that I paid for in the exact scheme of the Crimson Fists then they can find someone else to play!

[Galron]

So in a nutshell, you choose your marines to be successors of X chapter, you pick two traits, and the only thing you miss out on of your parent chapter is special characters and have to pay a CP to use a relic? But you still get warlord traits, pysker powers, special wargear, doctrine ability, and stratagems?

[Panzer]

No no no, the page on ultramarines in the 8th edition codex CLEARLY has red eye lenses and a black bolter casing! If you get to nitpick other people's choice of color scheme then I'm going to nitpick the choice of detail color, because that's what this has devolved into, nitpicking!

 

 

No, it's what you try to devolve it into. Would you be a bit more constructive instead of toxic, please?

[Marshal van Trapp]

 

 

No no no, the page on ultramarines in the 8th edition codex CLEARLY has red eye lenses and a black bolter casing! If you get to nitpick other people's choice of color scheme then I'm going to nitpick the choice of detail color, because that's what this has devolved into, nitpicking!

 

No, it's what you try to devolve it into. Would you be a bit more constructive instead of toxic, please?

Did you read the rest of my post or just the part you quoted? All I see in this thread is people who are saying "if you use your blue models as iron hands you're a power gamer and you're bad" completely ignoring the fact that there are literally thousands of chapters in the lore and who know how many of them have similar schemes and there is no rule written in the books that says "if your models are painted in X scheme you must use X rules"

 

The last part of my post was about how if you dont like it then go play someone who does care about lore paint schemes cause I'm not going to lose sleep over not playing people who nitpick my choice of scheme.

[Panzer]

Of course I read the rest too. It just wasn't relevant for the argument between us. You do you.

[Marshal van Trapp]

I dont see why my point of view isnt relevant to my arguement but I guess its moot at this point because just like everyone else in this thread you've just tossed aside my misgivings and said your peace, guess I'm not allowed to say mine.

[Marshal Rohr]

No matter how many chapters there are in the Imperium there are never Crimson Fists who are Raven Guard or Ultramarines who are Iron Hands.

[Marshal van Trapp]

No matter how many chapters there are in the Imperium there are never Crimson Fists who are Raven Guard or Ultramarines who are Iron Hands.

Yup and there are also no DiY chapters that fight like the crimson fists or black templars because you cant use Inheritors to replicate those tactics

[Lord Blackwood]

Or you know , you could paint yer dudes however you want , and have a clear conversation with your opponent as to what chapter they represent and what rules you are using like a reasonable adult. 

On the flip  side you could listen to your opponent tell you  his Red Marine are this chapter using these rules cause thats the book hes using and say cool lets roll for the mission. 

This whole argument of this cant be that or  this can never be that is really childish when you think about this being a niche hobby  where we spend disgusting amounts of money on plastic toy soldiers to play a war game.  Is it really that important to you ?  Wouldn't you  be happy to get a game in against a painted army? 

Hell , you wanna protect yourself go out, buy a game mat that has a similar color to your armor color of choice , then yer guys  repainted their armor as camo  for the world they are on, boom problem solved in every instance. 

" They are Red !" 

" Yes but you see this red dust on this world were fighting on , they  repainted their armor  for camo , they are still ultramarines though , and will be  using the ultramarines rules strats traits and characters. " 


As long as you are straightforward with what you  are running I  cant imagine anyone other than someone who already doesn't want to play you for whatever other reason having an issue. 

Dont play that guy , he can wait to play someone without painted minis or someone whos got a color scheme he approves of.  You  dont have to sacrifice your artistic freedom with models you paid for with your money  to placate someone  else. 

Edited October 21, 2019 by Lord Blackwood

[Marshal Rohr]

Or, and hear me out on this one, you play the faction the models are painted as because that faction is unique.

[Marshal van Trapp]

I honestly hope I never meet someone like the nitpickers in this thread, if I had when I started out I probably wouldnt have stuck with the game for as long as I have. As Lord Blackwood and several others in this thread have already said, if you have a problem with the way someone decides to paint the models that they bought with their money, go find another opponent

[Marshal Rohr]

Or, alternatively, if you have a problem with the ruleset specific to a unique space marine chapter, go find another game?

[Marshal van Trapp]

Or, alternatively, if you have a problem with the ruleset specific to a unique space marine chapter, go find another game?

Can you personally point me to the part of the BRB or Codex:Space Marines where it SPECIFICALLY says "if you choose to play <FACTION> then all your models MUST be painted with the exactly heraldry show in the respective book"

 

Cause until one of you does I'm done arguing with you

[Marshal Rohr]

You’re upset because people think Ultramarines should use the rules for Ultramarines. There’s only one unreasonable position here, and it’s not ‘Ultramarines use Ultramarines rules’.

[Lord Blackwood]

I  dont think its unreasonable for someone to have their painted toy soldiers that they paid for and spent the time putting together and painting represent whatever chapter that fits their playstyle. 

If you  were to tell  someone they cant use X book because their guys look like Y  then yer gatekeeping. 

If yer game experience is irreparably shattered because the tiny plastic ( or resin )  men on the other side of the board are a color you dont agree with  then I am very sorry for you. 

 

[Marshal van Trapp]

You’re upset because people think Ultramarines should use the rules for Ultramarines. There’s only one unreasonable position here, and it’s not ‘Ultramarines use Ultramarines rules’.

This thread isnt about "I'm using blood Angels as Ultramarines" and I'll admit I went into that territory. This thread has been about "because of the Vague wording in the GW codex, you can't use successor chapters as first founding counts as because that's what Inheritors of the Primarch is for now." And I do not believe THAT is the correct approach!

[Marshal Rohr]

I dont think its unreasonable for someone to have their painted toy soldiers that they paid for and spent the time putting together and painting represent whatever chapter that fits their playstyle.

 

If you were to tell someone they cant use X book because their guys look like Y then yer gatekeeping.

 

If yer game experience is irreparably shattered because the tiny plastic ( or resin ) men on the other side of the board are a color you dont agree with then I am very sorry for you.

 

 

I mean, you do your thing, man. More power to you.

[Marshal Rohr]

 

You’re upset because people think Ultramarines should use the rules for Ultramarines. There’s only one unreasonable position here, and it’s not ‘Ultramarines use Ultramarines rules’.

This thread isnt about "I'm using blood Angels as Ultramarines" and I'll admit I went into that territory. This thread has been about "because of the Vague wording in the GW codex, you can't use successor chapters as first founding counts as because that's what Inheritors of the Primarch is for now." And I do not believe THAT is the correct approach!

If someone is playing a successor, and include the data sheet for Shrike as their Chapter Master for their successors with Inheritors, that’s not as much of a leap as the Ultramarines are Iron Hands. Like Iron Hands and Ultramarines are definite things. Your successor is not a definite thing. It’s difficult to justify for example, using Tor Garadon as and Ultramarine successor captain. It’s not as hard to make the leap with Tigurius.