Iron Hands Whirlwinds

[FleshIsWeak71]

Hi all. I’ve been reading through the Space Marine codex, looking for different units that would combine well with the Iron Hands traits (beside the obvious ones). There were a few units that caught my eye, but the Whirlwind has truly peaked my interest.

 

A Whirlwind with a Castellan launcher has 2D6 (meaning an average of 7) Str 6 and AP -1 shots on anything within 72”. And I mean anything since it ignores LOS. Then add in the Iron Hands ability to move and shoot heavy weapons with no penalties and re-rolling 1s, and the strat to fire a Whirlwind twice in one turn. And all this for a unit that costs 80 points.

 

How is this not a thing in more Iron hands lists? 1 or 2 in any list can be a major nuisance. Am I missing something? Has this been brought up before? Let me know if I’m totally out to lunch here.

[MeltaRange]

Because literally everything is best with Iron Hands, it's hard to fit in everything.

 

Whirlwinds are a solid choice though.  And yeah, Iron Hands do them best.

Edited October 7, 2019 by MeltaRange

[RandomMarine]

Tbh I'm quite tempted by 3 of the AT varients with ferrios, the 5++ and one with bs2 rolling 1s using to double fire strat could be filthy will kill most things and if you come across a eldar flyer list you just turn your captain into a chapter master and kill 2 a turn

[Iron Father Ferrum]

The TFC is getting more play. Suppression Fire can be combined with Tremor Rounds to stonewall assault armies, it's about as cheap in points, and it's easier to hide out of LOS.

[faithonwings]

Because for twice their points you get a stormhawk and that thing outshoots 2 whirlwinds by far and also can shoot pretty much anything on the board after moving. Only reason you would use the whirlwind is if you have little else use for CP.

[Exilyth]

TFC (& techmarine gunner) hiding behind a stalker/hunter - slowdown, repair, tough metal box & AA in one nice 3 model package.

 

It's rather hard to justify using a whirlwind instead. In addition, maybe, but not instead.

[WarriorFish]

My Whirlwind gets regular outings, decent unit for the price that can sit back and provide supporting fire wherever it is needed. It'll only be better now I have the supplement, but I think part of the appeal is the cost so I'll likely not be expending CPs on it. Just let it do its thing and save those CPs for other things (like the Chapter Master Stratagem!)

[faithonwings]

TFC (& techmarine gunner) hiding behind a stalker/hunter - slowdown, repair, tough metal box & AA in one nice 3 model package.

 

It's rather hard to justify using a whirlwind instead. In addition, maybe, but not instead.

Nice synergie with the Tech being able to heal the stalker. Nice find.

 

@ warriorfish

 

If you have 80-85 points left and need something to hold in you'r backline then yes, it is appealing. But spending 2 CP for 7 S6 shots is a no go for me.

Edited October 8, 2019 by faithonwings

[Rodrick]

how does compare to thunderfire canons , seems they fill the same slot, thunderfire being cheaper and more shoots, BS2+

[Kallas]

TFC is better than the Castellan for anti-infantry work, plus it has more utility with the Tremor Shells (plus Suppression Fire). Vengeance is decent for anti-armour/tank work.

 

Some Mathhammer:

 

 

 

Yeah, devastator doctrine really helps them. I think the big winner is the Castellan. Going from ap 0 to -1 gives it 50% more effectiveness against MEQ and against 1W targets it will really shine.

Except that a TFC is better than a Castellan against your common T4 targets. 4D3 is better than 2D6, both are wounding on 3s, TFC hits on 2s though.

For that reason, if you're taking a whirlwind I'd go for the Autocannon missiles

 

And the TFC is AP-1 base, vs the Castellan's AP0 base; so the TFC is hitting more accurately, averages more shots (with the same maximum and a higher minimum), wounding the same, and (under Devastator Doctrine) will get AP-2.

 

Averages vs MEQs:

TFC: 8 shots: 8*0.833*0.66*0.66 = 2.9 damage/92pts (31.7pts/wound)

Cas: 7 shots: 7*0.66*0.66*0.5 = 1.53 damage/80pts (52.3pts/wound)

 

If you're wanting a platform that can perform against T5-7, then the Vengeance is better thanks to the base AP-1 and Damage 2:

Aggressors: T5/3+:

Cas: 7*0.66*0.66*0.5 = 1.53 damage/80pts (52.3pts/wound)

Ven: 4*0.66*0.66*0.66*2 = 2.3 damage/85pts (37pts/wound)

TFC: 8*0.833*0.5*0.66 = 2.2 damage/92pts (41.8pts/wound)

 

Ravager T6/5++:

Cas: 7*0.66*0.5*0.66 = 1.16 damage/80pts (69pts/wound)

Ven: 4*0.66*0.66*0.66*2 = 2.3 damage/85pts (37pts/wound)

TFC: 8*0.833*0.33*0.66 = 1.45 damage/92pts (63.5pts/wound)

 

The Castellan is just unfortunately placed, stat-wise, between the TFC and Vengeance. Let's not also forget the Techmarine Gunner, who comes along at only +12pts over the Castellan Whirlwind (80pts -> the TFC+Techmarine's 92pts). And then add in the TFC's Tremor Shells and it's not a contest. If you're desperate for 12pts, I'd recommend finding it somewhere else.

 

Basically, if you're bringing Whirlwinds, bring Vengeance; otherwise, TFCs.

 

[tychobi]

I would pose the difference of very high mobility of a whirlwind chassy under iron hand banner. Makes a handy objective grabber and can scoot n shoot out of the way of assaults. Super independent as well. The techmarine might as well hang out near somthing to fix for full utility. Whirlwinds can do drag races in the back field and body block for characters. Multi role artillery! Iron hands are a bit stacked!