What might the future hold for Space Hulk?

[Brother Tyler]

Full disclosure - I'm a big fan of the Space Hulk game. You can see that if you follow the "Indomitus" link in my signature. Or don't (I don't care, it's your time ).

 

The tabletop version of the Space Hulk game has gone through 4 editions, the most recent published in 2014. It's a classic game featuring elite Terminators of the Blood Angels Chapter of the Adeptus Astartes against the deadly Genestealers - like re-enacting Colonial Marines versus Ridley Scott's acid-for-blood aliens, but set in the Warhammer 40,000 universe. For many of us the game was a gateway into the Warhammer 40,000 hobby; and it has been translated into electronic games and sort of card games (Death Hulk from FFG). The 2014 edition also included some mission packs that were available on iBooks, one each featuring the Dark Angels, Space Wolves, and Ultramarines Chapters and updating some 1st/2nd edition campaigns to 3rd/4th edition tiles (so some tweaks to the maps and streamlining/simplification of the rules).

 

With the progression of the setting, though, we face a quandry. Many players believe that support for the legacy Adeptus Astartes, to which the Terminators belong, will cease at some point in the future as Games Workshop shifts to the newer, shinier, and taller Primaris Adeptus Astartes. Whether you love them, like them, or hate them, the Primaris look to be the future of the Adeptus Astartes. One of the biggest draws of the 3rd/4th edition sets was the miniatures, especially the Terminators which were individual sculpts in red plastic (as opposed to the generic Terminators that were included in the 1st and 2nd edition boxes). So if Games Workshop [eventually] ceases support for all legacy Adeptus Astartes miniatures, what will this mean for possible future releases of Space Hulk?

 

One option, of course, is that they will keep the 4th edition available for later re-releases, just like the 2016 re-release (just in time for Festivus, how convenient ). If they ever do this, I'd love to see the mission packs given better availability. I'd pay for a hard copy or non-Apple electronic copy, but wouldn't it be nice if they included it in the box or made them actual expansions with appropriate miniatures (white/bone for the Dark Angels, blue for the Ultramarines, blue/grey for the Space Wolves)? That would be a nice way to package some nifty Chapter-specific Terminators that are on par with the Blood Angels Terminators that were in the box. Even if Games Workshop does this, though, I doubt it would last long - probably just one final release before they move on with the Primaris equivalent.

 

The more likely scenario in my mind [if Games Workshop keeps "Space Hulk" alive] is that we'll see Gravis instead of Terminators. That, of course, would require an expansion to the Gravis models if they want to preserve equivalent capabilities.

 

Or perhaps we'll see Space Hulk die, which would be a great shame (unless you're Fajita Fan ).

 

I suppose that any future for Space Hulk, whether Terminator or Gravis (or something else entirely) really requires the clamoring of the masses (that's us, peeps!). So for those of you that would like to see Space Hulk in the future, what would you like to see Games Workshop do?

[INKS]

As you know I am just coming back to all this. I love space hulk even though I've not played in a very very long time. 

 

As they phasing out Terminators? Really? 

 

As far as what I would like to see is a re-release of the base game, with optional upgrades or addons with missions as you stated above. They could do an Ultramarines box with special minis, space wolves, and so on and so on. Each box would have a new mission pack (kind of how it is now) with some extra board pieces, character profiles, and a collection of minis to go with it. 

[Zephaniah Adriyen]

If I wanted to run Space Hulk right now, what I'd do is I'd run Kill Team rules mixed with a bit of Zone Mortalis and do it Terminators vs. Genestealers.

 

Actually, come to think of it, if I were GeeDubs, I'd release Space Hulk as a starter set for Kill Team with unique Zone Mortalis-styled rules tacked on and it'd come with Blood Angels Terminators and some Genestealers. It'd sell, for sure.

 

Edit: ...Ah. I followed the Indomitus link in your signature as suggested, and, um... you suggested literally this.

 

 

Players desiring to have more variety and flexibility in their game play really ought to look to the Zone Mortalis expansion from Forge World, perhaps combining those rules with the Kill-Team rules found in Battle Missions. This project is intended to be a somewhat limited expansion to the official Space Hulk 3rd edition rules.

 

Although I don't know modern Kill Team was out by then. Got into 40k during 8th, and I think, although I'm not sure, that the Rogue Trader box dropped around then. It took me a little bit to get up to date with new releases (I started looking about a day before Shadowspear dropped).

Edited October 13, 2019 by Zephaniah Adriyen

[Brother Tyler]

As they phasing out Terminators? Really?

Aside from the Space Marine Heroes series, Games Workshop hasn't been creating new legacy Adeptus Astartes miniatures, including Terminators. All of the Space Marine miniature releases since Primaris were introduced have been Primaris. Forge World is the only entity creating legacy Adeptus Astartes due to the Horus Heresy setting.

  

If I wanted to run Space Hulk right now, what I'd do is I'd run Kill Team rules mixed with a bit of Zone Mortalis and do it Terminators vs. Genestealers.

 

Actually, come to think of it, if I were GeeDubs, I'd release Space Hulk as a starter set for Kill Team with unique Zone Mortalis-styled rules tacked on and it'd come with Blood Angels Terminators and some Genestealers. It'd sell, for sure.

 

Edit: ...Ah. I followed the Indomitus link in your signature as suggested, and, um... you suggested literally this.

 

 

Players desiring to have more variety and flexibility in their game play really ought to look to the Zone Mortalis expansion from Forge World, perhaps combining those rules with the Kill-Team rules found in Battle Missions. This project is intended to be a somewhat limited expansion to the official Space Hulk 3rd edition rules.

 

Although I don't know modern Kill Team was out by then. Got into 40k during 8th, and I think, although I'm not sure, that the Rogue Trader box dropped around then. It took me a little bit to get up to date with new releases (I started looking about a day before Shadowspear dropped).

 

Using Kill Team rules to play in a space hulk/zone mortalis isn't Space Hulk, though. It's loads of fun, mind you, and I highly recommend it, but the core of Space Hulk is the rules. What I was referring to with the "variety and flexibility" is when players want to bring in forces other than [Chaos] Space Marines and Genestealers (Genestealer Cults notwithstanding). In the 1st edition of Space Hulk, rules were introduced for a number of other factions. This complicated the game considerably. The Space Hulk rules work very well because they are streamlined to the two key factions - Terminators and Genestealers. Weapons and movement work in certain ways because they are relative to the two forces. Introducing other factions requires layers of complexity that detract from the elegance of the system.

 

Using Kill Team rules to emulate Space Hulk is actually a subject we'll be visiting in the Kill Team forum (and elsewhere ).

[Zephaniah Adriyen]

Ah, I think I understand. For my skirmish games, I think I'll stick to Kill Team and sprinkle in Zone Mortalis when I use appropriate terrain. However, I'm still interested in Space Hulk, the future thereof and the idea that our Glorious Overlord would start a thread just because he's actually interested in the hobby.

 

As a bit of an aside, I'd like to praise you a bit for what you've done with this forum. The 40k community is one of the best, so I suppose you'd have a relatively easy job as things go, but being an admin for a big forum cannot be easy; being an admin and actually participating must be even harder. Thank you, Brother Tyler.

[Gorthaur]

I have no interest in a space hulk game without classic terminators. It would drastically alter the feeling of the game. So far most of the bulkier stuff released for primaris is all derpy stuff. 

 

I'd rather see them keep reprinting the current boxed set, or do a slightly different one with dark angels instead of blood angels. This isn't a game that needs to be re-envisioned or something.

[INKS]

Yeah I agree with Gorthaur. I am a little out of my depths with the primaris stuff after just coming back, but I like good ol terminators. :)

[Exilyth]

Deathwatch: Overkill put an interesting spin on the 'astartes exploring a derelict place and encountering xenos' trope by pitting deathwatch against GSC. That aside, the rules weren't as good as space hulk.

 

 

GW has been doing reprints of space hulk somewhat irregularly over the last decades and everytime the boxes sold out like oxygen on a spaceship with a hullbreach (at least around here).

I'd guess they'll do another run eventually with slightly updated rules. Would tie in nicely with the rumored plastic zone mortalis kits.

 

 

I doubt space hulk would get rules for primaris though - the current primaris units are not equipped for the short range environments encountered in a space hulk.

Flamestormfist Aggressors or Reivers maybe, but they'd be harder to balance vs. the stealers.

 

The great thing about classic termies is that they are heavily armoured, but still not invincible, which greatly adds to the dread of fighting on a derelict ship against endless hordes of xenos: they're not going down easily, but every loss hurts.

[Fajita Fan]

Yeah, I'm lame I know.  

 

If y'all don't think Primaris are getting their own Terminators then you don't know GW.

 

If y'all think the next version of Space Hulk won't be Primaris Terminators then you also don't know GW.  That'll probably be their debut with easy-to-build models.

[Brother Tyler]

In my perfect world, we'd see Space Hulk preserved with legacy Terminators using the existing (4th edition) box. That box would serve as the core of the series, with subsequent expansions requiring only the expansion box and the core box.

Then we'd see the expansions, which would each focus on a new campaign. The existing mission files would be expanded so that they would include (some) unique maps and the necessary new tiles to complete those maps (with the majority of tiles coming from the core box) as well as all of the Space Marines for the requisite Chapters (e.g., the mission files feature the Dark Angels, Ultramarines, and Space Wolves). Those Terminator minis would be in appropriate colors (e.g., white/bone for the Dark Angels, blue for the Ultramarines, blue-grey for the Space Wolves). GW could then push out occasional additional expansions featuring different Chapters with their own Terminator models in appropriate colors and unique (mini-)campaigns. It might even be possible to include Heretic Astartes in an expansion, with rules for using them in place of the loyalists (simple substitution) or a mini-campaign pitting Heretic Astartes versus loyalists. Another possible expansion would be to take the White Dwarf article allowing Genestealer Cults to be used and pitting them against terminators. Such expansion boxes would be small - big enough for the rulebook and mission book and deep enough to hold the tiles (not many) and models (just one side rather than the two sides that are in the core box).

To expand on what I said before about each expansion would require only the expansion box and the core box, this would be intended to make the expansions a bit more accessible. I would anticipate the expansions being limited runs, so you wouldn't want an expansion to require another expansion that's no longer available. Each expansion would also include rules to allow substitution for the core Terminators (Blood Angels). For example, an expansion featuring the Black Templars might include a Chaplain along with the rules to substitute that chaplain for the Blood Angels Librarian in the core set (difficult to do since that Librarian's psychic powers are really key to the tactics of the missions in which he's included).

Another benefit of such hypothetical expansions would be that they would provide unique minis for standard WH40K or Kill Team. We've already seen how much the Blood Angels Terminators in the 3rd/4th edition boxed set are loved (and filthy xenos players appear to love the Genestealer models, too ). Imagine how popular these boxes would be with players of the requisite armies. If made in plastic (and why wouldn't they be?) fans of other Chapters might convert models for their Chapters. So a hypothetical expansion featuring the Salamanders wouldn't necessarily be limited to Salamanders players, and a hypothetical expansion featuring Imperial Fists/Crimson Fists could similarly allow conversion of the Terminators to other Chapters.

This might even be a way for GW to make the Space Marine Heroes models available to those of us that live in areas where those models aren't available. (That's not likely to happen, mind you, but I'm trying to weasel my way into getting those nifty models .)

Of course, if GW shifts Space Hulk over to Primaris, the same concepts could be applied there, too. Personally, though, I'd prefer the legacy Terminators.

 

Having one expansion a year (or maybe every other year) would sustain the game, I think, without being too much of a burden on GW (not that I have any idea what their resource limitations and overall capabilities are).

[Elzender]

Sincerely, GW could revamp Space Hulk pretty easily, as it could fit a similar pattern to other boxed games and specialist games. Miniature wise, they wouldn't even have to create new terminator sculpts for the first releases, as there are currently available kits for Space Wolves, Dark Angels and Blood Angels, and the Space Marine heroes set for Ultramarines and other Codex Chapters (although I am not sure if the SW and BA kits have a lot of variability weaponry-wise). Moreover, making a boxset containing the Heroes series would already be a huge selling point to legacy marine collectors and players.

Actually, seeing as they are doing something similar with Series 1, we might see this coming in the future. However, I'm not sure if Tyranids players would be ok with generic genestealers in the box, nor if GW would bother with a resculpt for a boxed game. Maybe a mix of Cults with a couple purestrains and a Broodlord?

[Fajita Fan]

New genestealers would be a cool box, the old one with slotta base legs are crappy.

[Black Knight]

The Space Hulk models are separate special ones made for the game so I do not see them removing them unless they drop the game entirely. The boxed game is completelly seperate to the 40k system, they share lore but last time I looked they are not retconning old marines.

[Veteran Sergeant]

The Space Marines are completely abstracted in Space Hulk. It doesn't matter what they are. I play Space Hulk with regular Marines in power armor because I like them better.

 

With Space Hulk's level of abstraction, there's no functional difference between a bolter and a storm bolter. A flamer or a heavy flamer. Assault cannon or heavy bolter. No difference between power armor and terminator armor. Most of the Marines die horribly in close combat 9 times out of 10 regardless, lol. They miss most of the time at range, only succeeding through follow on fire.

 

The next iteration of Space Hulk could have Primaris, and the game would play the exact same. Just give one model breaching charges instead of a chain fist, for example.

 

I mean, I hope they keep the same old format. Primaris are lame and the Terminators are iconic. But nothing has to change about the game. If the armor made a difference, sure. But it doesn't. If the weapons made a difference, sure. But they don't. One Space Marine is really shooty. One is really burny. One cuts through doors really well. Etc. These are all completely abstracted, with game rules specific to Space Hulk. My chainfist is a Marine with a Lascutter strapped across his back, lol.

[walter h]

They should have built it as an expandable system in the first place. This could have been expanded to allow other races,and factions within the Emperors space. I cannot believe that they never considered the idea.

[Brother Tyler]

They should have built it as an expandable system in the first place. This could have been expanded to allow other races,and factions within the Emperors space. I cannot believe that they never considered the idea.

 

I don't think that would have worked very well.

 

The key to the elegance of the Space Hulk rules is that they are abstracted from relative WH40K rules because the sides are limited. They reflect how each of the factions works in relation to the opposition. A storm bolter kills on certain results because that's how effective it is against Genestealers, reflecting both their natural exoskeleton and their speed. If you change the matchups, the rules have to become more generic, shifting to something closer to WH40K. A Terminator equipped with twin lighting claws is far more effective against a Tau Firewarrior than he is against a Genestealer. Space Marines wouldn't need the timer against the Tau. They might need a timer with more time against foes such as Aeldari (swift, but not as swift as the Genestealers).

 

Games Workshop actually did attempt this during the game's 1st edition. Space Hulk 1st Edition failed in this when they started introducing rules for additional races, creating more and more charts and tables and rules to adjust things based on the relative matchups of the different races.

 

The only way for this concept to really work would be to create a rules package for each different combination. Many things might remain common for a faction in different matchups, especially in terms of things like movement. However, certain key things, especially in terms of weapons, would have to change with each different matchup. That's fine and all for homegrown expansions and the like, but it really goes against the core elegance of the official game. Space Hulk is a boardgame, not a tabletop miniatures wargame. It can't be changed to reflect the diversity of the tabletop miniatures wargame without losing its boardgame simplicity.

 

The concepts of Space Hulk can be used with different matchups. For example, I've created an adaptation based on power armoured Space Marines versus Orks. There are necessary changes to the rules based on how each of those races stacks up against their adversary. So it's entirely possible to apply Space Hulk rules concepts across the entire spectrum of factions in the setting, but you can't create a single rule set to do this well. You might as well just use Warhammer 40,000 or Kill Team.

 

My recommendation for players wanting to try different matchups in a space hulk is to look at Kill Team (using Space Hulk tiles). It's definitely not the same, but the Kill Team rules would allow for all of the various factions. It would be far easier to add some homegrown rules to Kill Team to bring in aspects of Space Hulk than the reverse.

[walter h]

I think that kill team, would offer a great use for the tiles,and yes Space hulk rules are best for the two adversaries, and additional charts ,rules would just bog down the game.

[LameBeard]

Space Hulk would actually be a great way of Games Workshop sneaking out some support for ‘Legacy Marines’ without looking like they were anything other than 100% committed to Primaris. It would be a ‘historical’ setting, releasing the Sin of Damnation as the core set, and other hulks (and match-ups) as expansions.

 

BloodBowl and Necromunda show how Forgeworld can have a bit of the action too. Blood bowl also showed that GW didn’t feel the need to update to Age of Sigmar, it’s still a twisted version of the old world. So space hulk doesn’t have to be primaris.

 

I loved 1st edition Space Hulk. Still the best GW game. Simple and yet immersive. I agree with what you said about other races. I spent a lot of time and money tracking down the rules for Eldar in 1st edition. Really disappointed. Lost all that simplicity and elegance. Would still like to tackle the marine vs traitor campaign though.

Edited May 5, 2020 by LameBeard

[Brother Tyler]

This is me getting all wish-listy and hopeful*

 

Unless you've been living under a rock, you've heard that GW is going to give us new embiggened Indomitus Terminators for the Warhammer 40,000 game. You can see all of the rumors, speculation, whinging, and tangents on that subject here.

 

As far as the new Indomitus Terminators go, the important thing relevant to this discussion is that GW doesn't appear likely to replace Terminators with Gravis Primaris Veterans in any possible future iteration of Space Hulk. So I see several possibilities (if GW decides to give us re-releases or future editions of Space Hulk):

 

• Leave the game as-is, stunty Terminators and all. This is probably the easy way out, but then a bunch of people wouldn't buy it because they already have a copy of either the 3rd or 4th editions of the game.
• Give us a new edition, with new Terminator models.

 

Personally, I would love the latter. And as much as I love the Blood Angels minis, I would really like to see GW give us some other Chapter. While there are a lot of really cool Chapters, I think that GW would be better off with one of the Codex/near-Codex Chapters for the baseline game. In this, my personal preference is the Imperial Fists, but I could easily see Chapters like the Ultramarines, Crimson Fists, Iron Hands, and Salamanders. I could even see the Deathwatch used. The colors of the Genestealers (and the related Hive Fleet) would depend upon the actual Chapter chosen, preferably with some strong contrast between the two sides). The challenge, though, is that the campaign would have to be modified a bit. Some of the missions might be recycled, perhaps with slight changes to the maps (giving us a lot more replayability). And as much as I like the cardboard tiles, I would pay good money for a version with plastic tiles (perhaps a deluxe version of the game, keeping a cardboard tile version for players with a lower price point?).

 

If GW makes a hypothetical 5th edition limited the way the 3rd and 4th editions were, I'd love it if they were to release the miniatures as separate boxes. That would be for both the Genestealers (giving Tyranid players some more variation in their models) as well as the Terminators (the 3rd/4th editions would be great for Blood Angels players, a 5th edition box would be great for players of whatever Chapter they end up featuring).

 

Something else I would love to see would be expansions that feature a few new missions (blending them into a larger campaign that also features some of the missions for the main box, or modified versions thereof) and bespoke miniatures. Genestealer minis wouldn't be needed (unless an expansion includes some new types), but a campaign expansion might feature a different Chapter and include minis for that Chapter. So a campaign that features, say, the White Scars might give us bespoke White Scars Terminator models (naturally, they'd be white), while a campaign featuring the Salamanders might give us bespoke Salamanders Terminator models (and those would be in, you guessed it, green). These would go beyond the mission files that we got for 4th edition (which only came as digital Apple products) - boxes with miniatures, printed rulebooks, and tiles would be included.

 

And as with the core box, it would be great if the miniatures were later released as a separate box so that players of the featured Chapters could have some bespoke miniatures.

 

Lastly, I'd love an expansion that features Heretic Astartes Terminators. Such a rulebook would cover both variations - replacing the loyalists in missions against the Genestealers and playing Heretic Astartes versus Adeptus Astartes Terminators. This rulebook would show how to modify some of the core missions for the Terminator versus Terminator, but would also include a few bespoke missions (and tiles) for a totally new campaign. And of course there would be bespoke Heretic Astartes Terminator miniatures (which would later be released separately). In this, I prefer some "generic" Heretic Astartes Terminators (okay, Undivided rather than one of the Cult Legions).

 

And if GW gives us plastic terrain/tiles, I could see them releasing those kits separately as a sort of alternative Boarding Action set. I could see those selling very well, both for players of Space Hulk as well as for both Kill Team and regular Warhammer 40,000.

 

And if GW doesn't give us this stuff, I'll continue working on the Indomitus Project to try to bring it to life insofar as my resources will allow (which is pretty much limited to developing missions and rules, not minis and tiles).

 

* Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.

[Ming the Merciless]

New Terminators, new Genestealers, new Space Hulk seems inevitable... eventually.