Psychic Awakening 2 Chaos factions

[RapatoR]

Man, if those rules (alongside stuff from Vigilus and DK) stays in effect once *true* 2.0 dex drops, I will be one happy camper.

[Aztek]

Can anyone who's better at math than me(most of you) do the math on Claws of the Black Hunt vs. the Daemon Weapon Claws? It'd be going on a Night Lord Chaos Lord with Jump Pack. I have a Sorc for Diabolic Strength as well if that helps. I would greatly appreciate it!

[Closet Skeleton]

I think the Iron Warriors and World Eaters won this round! both look stellar for rules. 

 

And the Emps Children and Night Lords ain't far behind!!!

 

Word Bearers look GREAT but when taking them you *MUST* spam possessed to get the most of that ruleset. If you do that? they also seem great. 

 

I would put World Eaters at the bottom. They just got better at the stuff they were already good at.

 

Word Bearers actually kind of have an advantage in their legion trait being so garbage that they can happily make sort of fluffy mixed legion detachments. Word Bearers/Night Lords will be a powerful combo since neither of them need their traits at all.

 

Possessed Word Bearers biker axeman will be a funky warlord for just about any list. Just 15" move and charge into anything you want, maybe combo with some 3d6 charging night lords warp talons if you're scared about overwatch.

 

 

I mean again, those seem neat but without the traits to back it up they get dragged down into the bog.  And this brings up one of the biggest "disconnects" I think:  Chaos, perhaps more than any other army except loyalists (who got their update properly), generally want to play a single legion and have that be the legion they like/identify with/etc.

 

The fluff assumes Chaos marines fight in mixed legion alliances, its the old horus heresy fixation that makes people go mono legion but lots of chaos players collect multiple legions.

[El_Dicko]

Yeah I already have my collection divided into detachments for hobby butterfly reasons, and so running a mix of legions is appealing. It also calls back to the feel of the 2nd ed codex. Anyway lots of fun stuff to try out here! Loving the cannon fodder strat for IW and for sure going to convert some Red Butchers and an Exalted Possessed for WB fun.

[Kain Mor]

>Every other army is being designed for each sub faction to work independently, and being encouraged to do so to continue to minimize soup.

 

> Chaos Space marine players are just being old fashioned sticks in the mud expecting to be able to fight in unified armies.

 

Yeah you can just not with that.

[Closet Skeleton]

> Chaos Space marine players are just being old fashioned sticks in the mud expecting to be able to fight in unified armies.

 

Being an old fashioned chaos marine player would be treating the daemon codex as just part of the main faction.

[techsoldaten]

 

I think the Iron Warriors and World Eaters won this round! both look stellar for rules. 

 

And the Emps Children and Night Lords ain't far behind!!!

 

Word Bearers look GREAT but when taking them you *MUST* spam possessed to get the most of that ruleset. If you do that? they also seem great. 

 

I would put World Eaters at the bottom. They just got better at the stuff they were already good at.

 

Dunno about that.

 

There's things that concern me about every Legion. With the exception of Alpha Legion, this is not going to convince many people to play mono-Legion armies. This is going to lead to some powerful detachments that can perform some really niche tricks on the battlefield. You have to ask yourself what's the marquee detachment for each Legion and how much does it cost.

 

For World Eaters, a Supreme Command Detachment with a Master of Execution, Daemon Prince, Khârn and a pack of Red Butchers could be really nasty. Thinking you use them with Apoplectic Frenzy to clear out Infiltrators before the real battle begins.

 

It's kind of the same with all the others. I can see Iron Warrior's Chaos Lords marching CSM squads with Chaincannons up the board, I can see Emperor's Children Discolords with Loathesome Grace and Armor of Abhorrence becoming a thing. Word Bearers Apostles just became an autotake on their detachments. Night Lords would be better off if they could take Raptors as troops.

[Iron_Within]

Goonhammer wrote up a big review of everything, if people are interested (link), and they ended the CSM review with this, which sums up a lot of my thoughts on the matter:

 

Wow, those Chaos rules sure were something! Hopefully this will be what they need and Marines won’t just get an insane boost that wipes out any forward momentum the faction ha… touches earpiece I’m being told that in the second part of our review tomorrow, Jack “BenBooley” Hunter will review the new Space Marines rules and they are some proper bull:cuss. Cool. This is fine. Everything is fine.

 

I certainly agreed with most of what they said and I certainly agreed with the final sentiment but I spotted something I disagree with them on:

 

 

Bastion. When resolving an attack made with a weapon that has an AP of -1 against a friendly Iron Warriors unit that is within 6” of your warlord and is in cover, the weapon is treated as AP 0. This is a lot of work to drop AP-1 weapons by 1 and sadly I think just isn’t so useful now that marines can easily give most of their army AP-2. C

 

I think they've missed an important combo with this:

 

Dour Duty (1 CP). Use in your opponent’s shooting or your charge phase when an Iron Warriors unit is chosen as the target of an attack. Until the end of the phase, when you resolve an attack with a ranged weapon against the specified unit, reduce the AP of the weapon by 1. Also notably not Infantry-locked, so a fantastic way to blunt incoming damage against a Daemon Engine. B+

 

Combine these two on one Havoc unit to stop dead in their tracks the -2AP weapons on Marines (except Imperial Fists of course    ) Then stick cannon fodder on your other shooty unit and you have your gun line nicely castle against return fire.

 

Other thing I spotted was with Unholy Vigour:

Unholy Vigor (1 CP). Use at the start of your movement phase to give an Iron Warriors vehicle back up to 3 wounds. It’s a big boost, and helpful when paired with a Warpsmith who can give you another D3, or just good to have in your back pocket to pop over a profile bracket threshold. B+

 

With this pop on a Disco Lord, along with fleshmetal Exo skeleton and have a Warp Smith and MoP nearby and he can recover 11(!) wounds a turn (3 from Warpsmith, 3 from Unholy Vigour, 3 from Sacrifice on MoP, 1 from Daemon Engine and 1 from from Fleshmetal).

EDIT (YES I'M EDITING THIS AGAIN BECAUSE I DON'T LIKE DOUBLE POSTING! :P )

An alternative option for Unholy vigour combo... A Lord of Skulls that regenerates 10 goddam wounds a turn. I totally missed this like a berk. Sweet Olympia that's absurd.... If you wanted to keep your Disco Lord nearby (why wouldn't you for the +1 to hit) you can get up to 13 wounds regeneration a turn.

[Marshal Loss]

Love your thinking Iron_Within.

 

I adore the Ashen Axe, and will probably start throwing it on a variety of character models to experiment with. My only regular opponent since I moved from Aus to America plays Custodes, and I'm thinking that a combination of...

 

Tzeentch Daemon weapon that ignores invuls (S user, -3 AP, D3 damage)

Exalted Possession (+1S, A, M)

+1S from a nearby GP

Revered Hosts strat, 1CP (+1 damage)

VoTLW strat, 1CP (+1 to wound)

 

...could be really nasty. On a Lord that would be ~6 S6 attacks on the charge, hitting on 2+ w/ re-rolls of 1s, wounding on 2s, doing D3+1 damage, ignoring invuls and thus reducing that flying biker bastard with a 3++ to a 5+. Wouldn't take it in a competitive setting (and it's a lot more effort than just using the auto-death hex, lol) but caving a Shield Captain's head in with a talking sword is worth the price of admission in my book

[Excessus]

I know I will be converting a sniper lord for my Alphas. :)

[Iron_Within]

I know I will be converting a sniper lord for my Alphas.

I'd love to see an Alpha Legion Chaos Space Marine version of this model:

 

The combi bolters on the bike with a combi bolter he's now putting out 8 shots on 2+ wounding on 2+ mortals on 6's. Very nice.

[Painjunky]

These are band aids but still some interesting combo potential here.

 

I think we'll burn all our CPs by halfway through T2 if not earilier tho.

 

How are you guys thinking of getting more CPs into your lists?

[El_Dicko]

These are band aids but still some interesting combo potential here.

 

I think we'll burn all our CPs by halfway through T2 if not earilier tho.

 

How are you guys thinking of getting more CPs into your lists?

Red Corsairs detachment with three 5 man squads of bolters, storm bolters and chain cannons. 11 cp.

[Sonoftherubric21]

Chaos is in a MUCH better place. 

 

Love what I saw from basically all the legions shown. Very solid and worth playing. 

 

Does it bring us up to Numarine levels? No, but it sure as heck levels the playing field a bit more. Even if our side is still a bit craggy till Trait updates lol. 

[Painjunky]

 

These are band aids but still some interesting combo potential here.

 

I think we'll burn all our CPs by halfway through T2 if not earilier tho.

 

How are you guys thinking of getting more CPs into your lists?

Red Corsairs detachment with three 5 man squads of bolters, storm bolters and chain cannons. 11 cp.

 

Yep this is probably the best solution and might be auto take if CA drops CSM pts which everyone agrees they must do.

[Warsmith Annüss]

Night Lords rules

 

I am happy with all of this. Sure, it doesn't solve the major underlying issues but I'm excited to continue work on my NL.

[Aztek]

Night Lord Chaos lord with Jump Pack

Warlord

In Raptorial Host detachment but not the Warlord trait holder so +2 to charges.

 

Warlord trait- Murderous Reputation. When resolving an attack made by this Warlord, an unmodified hit roll of 6 inflicts 1 mortal wound on the target in addition to any other damage.

 

Relic- Thaa’ris and Rhi’ol, The Rapacious Talons- Replaces a Slaanesh model’s lightning claws/malefic talons. S User, AP -2, D2. Re-roll the wound roll and add the result of your daemon weapon roll (provided it wasn’t a 1) to your model’s Attacks characteristic this phase.

 

So 4 base attacks as a Chaos Lord with Jump Pack, +1 from Hateful assault gives you 5, then you roll a dice for the Claws. This can bump this little murder lord up to 11 S4 AP-2 D2 attacks. With those 11 attacks you're likely to get at least a six or two which are automatic mortal wounds due to the Warlord trait in addition to normal damage. Then you're rolling S4 which is the worst part of this build, but never underestimate the rerolls of Lightning Claws! If everything goes 100% successfully (It won't) this character can deal out 33 wounds(11 attacks at D2, and assuming every dice is a 6). In more likely scenarios though I see this character being decent though as far as a Chaos Space Marine HQ goes, and I'm proxying my actual Konrad Curze model for him!

 

What do people think?

[Iron_Within]

So thinking about lists. This was a pure Iron Warriors 2k option. There are ways of chiselling this to be more efficient (first comes to mind switch one battalion to a Red Corsairs detachment). But it's based off the miniatures I have:

Iron Warriors 2k

Total CP 14. -3= 11 CP

Battalion 1

HQ

Warpsmith (Fleshmetal Exoskeleton)

Master of Possessions (Cursed Earth, Sacrifice)

Troops

x3 5 man Chaos Space Marine unit (combi Bolter)

Battalion 2

HQ

Chaos Lord on Bike (Warlord - Daemonsmith, Relic - Axe of the Forgemaster)

Jump Sorcerer (Warptime, Prescience)

Troops

x3 10 man Cultists

Spearhead - Soulforged pack

HQ

Lord Discordant with Baleflamer (Master of the Soulforges)

Heavy Support

Maulerfiend with Lasher Tendril

Maulerfiend with Lasher Tendril

Venom Crawler

Defiler (Lasher, Reaper Autocannon)

Super Heavy Auxillery detachment

Lord of Skulls (Ichor Cannon, Skull Hurler)

 

Generally speaking, the Lord of Skulls is hurled forward with Warptime and the rest of the army bar the Marines and Cultists followup as quickly as possible. The Warpsmith is literally a battery for the MoP's Sacrifice who moves around healing units as he goes. 
A single unit could be healed for 9 wounds in a turn plus their natural healing, more if the LD gets his heal ability off. Tactics are to overwhelm with the main force (who are ultimately expendable) while Marines and Cultists hold the line and claim objectives.

Daemon Smith on the biker lord is a damage multiplier on the Daemon engine host, along with the LD +1 to hit natural ability. Effectively a giant mailed Daemon engine fist.

 

The uniqueness is the sheer number of wounds a Daemon engine can regenerate in a turn making the Lord of Skulls more survivable than a Castellan.

[Sonoftherubric21]

Its a very solid murderiffic lord! Aztek.

 

I have some build ideas myself. I think that for us its either go full "Murder-spree" character OR we can do buff oriented characters but not both annoyingly. 

[Kain Mor]

Yeah or you roll a 1 on the daemon weapon and your warlord sits out on his butt in the open and gets blasted to hell by the enemy.

[Sonoftherubric21]

Yeah or you roll a 1 on the daemon weapon and your warlord sits out on his butt in the open and gets blasted to hell by the enemy.

 

Cause CP re-rolls totally aren't a thing. 

 

------

 

Been looking at some Combos for word bearers and I think Daemonkin ritualists with around 20-30 Possessed + the Possessed lord Aura buff + Greater Possessed and the auto-pass spell casting has incredible potential. 

 

I think that the mega-apostle buff can also be very useful obviously. Gotta do some write ups for a list and see how it comes out. It has potential for sure. 

[Midnight Brotherhood]

Oh hot damn I'm so happy with the Night Lords rules, went in expecting disappointment came out incredibly elated. The strategems are just absolutely killer. I'd love to know what the tactical objectives are but all the previewers seem to skip past them. Regardless I will be getting this book to show my support for the effort made in rules here. It's annoying to have to buy *another* add on but at least it's decent rules. I'm very happy with the combination of fluff and functionality on pretty much all the Night Lords stuff.

[Sonoftherubric21]

I call this "Ghetto Argel Tal" 

 

Chaos Lord is Warlord with a Jump Pack (Wings) 

Thunder Hammer (custode spear) 

 

Give warlord trait for Possession, daemon, possessed, and +1 move, +1 str, +1 attack. (13 inch move, str 10 hammer, SEVEN (7) attacks on the charge. 

 

Relic - Crown of Blasphemer for a 3++ invul save. 

 

"Revered Host" strat for 1 cp. He is now Damage 4 per swing. 

 

IF someone gets through a killing wound on him before he swings simply drop a CP on the (once per game)  Hexxagrammic ward for an auto-pass save no roll needed (good for emergency) 

 

This is a "Murder lord" in every sense of the word and is an all-in strategy for damage. Though uses up substantial resources in the process. 

 

Obvs in this list I would be paying for 2 more relics as well (Epistle and Maleific Tome feels almost like auto-includes) 

[Drudge Dreadnought]

So how about:

 

Alpha Legion detachment with 10 slaaneshi plasma terminators using Conceal

Death Guard detachment with 10 plasma terminators using Cloud of Flies

Knights or other T8 vehicles to hide the terminators behind

 

Give them nothing to shoot at!

 

(Alternatively, you could run a bunch of horde infantry to give their big guns nothing to shoot at instead)

[darkseren1ty]

Guys.. Am i correct in assuming that the following is viable:

 

Emperors children host raptorial special detachment

 

Chaos Lord with jump pack and repulsive rainment, thunder hammer, and tip of the claw warlord trait.

 

10 x warp talons

 

combined with honor the prince- you have a guaranteed 7" charge with no overwatch on 1 squad of warp talons, and a 7" charge with the other squads with your usual rerolls, plus a rerollable 7" charge on the lord.

 

is no one going to mention how incredibly strong a no overwatch guaranteed charge is against both Iron hands and tau?

 

competively, this might be enough to push the meta back quite a bit!