New Mephiston/Psychic awakening p3

[Panzer]

Apparently not all since there were some imprisoned in the Tower and let loose against the Tyranids. Basically like the Death Company. Normally they get put to rest by a Deathcompany Chaplain, especially Astorath, but for some reason there are always some imprisoned in the Tower.

[Blindhamster]

Mephiston succumbed to and overcame the red thirst.

[SnorriSnorrison]

That being said, I'd love to see some Primaris suffering quite heavily from the Red Thirst just to give GW a reason to give us a fancy new mutated melee unit. However they need to be at least as fast and durable as Wulfen to have even a slight chance of being viable. If they tend more towards Possessed they'd be pretty useless.

Nah man, I don’t think mutated marines are BA at all. That’s the wolves’ way, not ours. We lock our fallen away out of secrecy, and even the Death company are a rare sight, lore-wise. The Blood Angels don’t flaunt their curse, they hide it away while looking for a cure.

[Panzer]

Mephiston succumbed to and overcame the red thirst.

 

That got retconned a long long time ago. He overcame the Black Rage according to current fluff.

[Panzer]

 

That being said, I'd love to see some Primaris suffering quite heavily from the Red Thirst just to give GW a reason to give us a fancy new mutated melee unit. However they need to be at least as fast and durable as Wulfen to have even a slight chance of being viable. If they tend more towards Possessed they'd be pretty useless.

Nah man, I don’t think mutated marines are BA at all. That’s the wolves’ way, not ours. We lock our fallen away out of secrecy, and even the Death company are a rare sight, lore-wise. The Blood Angels don’t flaunt their curse, they hide it away while looking for a cure.

 

 

Things change. Primarchs return, people are allowed to know about Daemons. Who are we to say that GW doesn't go and let us use mutated Marines eventually. ;) 

[RedemptionNL]

 

Mephiston succumbed to and overcame the red thirst.

 

That got retconned a long long time ago. He overcame the Black Rage according to current fluff.

 

Technically he overcame both I believe. In the Blood of Sanguinius novel Mephiston says he's no longer influenced by the "usual hunger".

[FormelyKnownAsSmashyPants]

Apparently not all since there were some imprisoned in the Tower and let loose against the Tyranids. Basically like the Death Company. Normally they get put to rest by a Deathcompany Chaplain, especially Astorath, but for some reason there are always some imprisoned in the Tower.

Don’t confuse me he Rage and the Thirst, if a marine falls to the Black Rage, usually on the eve of battle, he is inducted into the DC, and if he survives the battle is usually put down the chaplain. Those who have given into he Red Thrirst entirely are imprisonned in the Tower. Every BA suffers from the Thirst, basically a thirst for blood and to do violence, to varying degrees and must keep it under control. The Black Rage is where they have visions of Sanguinius’ death and believe they actually are him during his final fight with Horus, hence the Name Death Visions of Sanguinius for the stratagem that allows you to upgrade CPT Smash.

[Panzer]

 

Apparently not all since there were some imprisoned in the Tower and let loose against the Tyranids. Basically like the Death Company. Normally they get put to rest by a Deathcompany Chaplain, especially Astorath, but for some reason there are always some imprisoned in the Tower.

Don’t confuse me he Rage and the Thirst, if a marine falls to the Black Rage, usually on the eve of battle, he is inducted into the DC, and if he survives the battle is usually put down the chaplain. Those who have given into he Red Thrirst entirely are imprisonned in the Tower. Every BA suffers from the Thirst, basically a thirst for blood and to do violence, to varying degrees and must keep it under control. The Black Rage is where they have visions of Sanguinius’ death and believe they actually are him during his final fight with Horus, hence the Name Death Visions of Sanguinius for the stratagem that allows you to upgrade CPT Smash.

 

 

Don't worry, I'm not confusing anything. I'm perfectly clear on what the rage and what the thirst is.

 

 

Mephiston succumbed to and overcame the red thirst.

 

That got retconned a long long time ago. He overcame the Black Rage according to current fluff.

 

Technically he overcame both I believe. In the Blood of Sanguinius novel Mephiston says he's no longer influenced by the "usual hunger".

 

 

True, but that seems more like a side-effect of his condition. Point is that it used to be that he fell to the Red Thirst in the past until GW retconned it to him having fallen to the Black Rage.

(Quite ironic that the guy that looks like Dracula is the one who doesn't feel the thirst anymore to be honest)

[SnorriSnorrison]

 

 

 

That being said, I'd love to see some Primaris suffering quite heavily from the Red Thirst just to give GW a reason to give us a fancy new mutated melee unit. However they need to be at least as fast and durable as Wulfen to have even a slight chance of being viable. If they tend more towards Possessed they'd be pretty useless.

Nah man, I don’t think mutated marines are BA at all. That’s the wolves’ way, not ours. We lock our fallen away out of secrecy, and even the Death company are a rare sight, lore-wise. The Blood Angels don’t flaunt their curse, they hide it away while looking for a cure.

Things change. Primarchs return, people are allowed to know about Daemons. Who are we to say that GW doesn't go and let us use mutated Marines eventually. ;)

Doesn’t mean we have to :D

 

+++ suffer not the unclean to live +++

[FormelyKnownAsSmashyPants]

 

 

Apparently not all since there were some imprisoned in the Tower and let loose against the Tyranids. Basically like the Death Company. Normally they get put to rest by a Deathcompany Chaplain, especially Astorath, but for some reason there are always some imprisoned in the Tower.

Don’t confuse me he Rage and the Thirst, if a marine falls to the Black Rage, usually on the eve of battle, he is inducted into the DC, and if he survives the battle is usually put down the chaplain. Those who have given into he Red Thrirst entirely are imprisonned in the Tower. Every BA suffers from the Thirst, basically a thirst for blood and to do violence, to varying degrees and must keep it under control. The Black Rage is where they have visions of Sanguinius’ death and believe they actually are him during his final fight with Horus, hence the Name Death Visions of Sanguinius for the stratagem that allows you to upgrade CPT Smash.

 

Don't worry, I'm not confusing anything. I'm perfectly clear on what the rage and what the thirst is.

 

My bad, I just re read your post, you clearly said that they were let loose on the enemy, LIKE the Death Compnay. I misread it to be they were released AS Death Company. Apologies SFPanzer, that’ll teach me to read things more carefully.

[Panzer]

 

 

 

That being said, I'd love to see some Primaris suffering quite heavily from the Red Thirst just to give GW a reason to give us a fancy new mutated melee unit. However they need to be at least as fast and durable as Wulfen to have even a slight chance of being viable. If they tend more towards Possessed they'd be pretty useless.

Nah man, I don’t think mutated marines are BA at all. That’s the wolves’ way, not ours. We lock our fallen away out of secrecy, and even the Death company are a rare sight, lore-wise. The Blood Angels don’t flaunt their curse, they hide it away while looking for a cure.

Things change. Primarchs return, people are allowed to know about Daemons. Who are we to say that GW doesn't go and let us use mutated Marines eventually.

Doesn’t mean we have to

 

+++ suffer not the unclean to live +++

 

 

I mean, we always have the option to not buy a unit, yeah. :D 

[Dont-Be-Haten]

 

 

Now with the "cured" primaris we can look forward to seeing how far battle brothers can fall to the thirst, and what might they do to overcome it.

We know how far brothers can fall to the thirst and if you keep falling there's no "overcoming" it like it's the case with the Black Rage since it physically mutates them into monsters. It's more similar to the Wulfen Curse than anything else. The Knights of Blood already showed first signs of it (redened skin and yellow-ish eyes) since they kept using the Red Thirst to fight back the Black Rage and during their final moments their Chapter Master lifted that secret infront of Seth to convince him that he's on a very dangerous if not completely wrong path.

 

 

That being said, I'd love to see some Primaris suffering quite heavily from the Red Thirst just to give GW a reason to give us a fancy new mutated melee unit. However they need to be at least as fast and durable as Wulfen to have even a slight chance of being viable. If they tend more towards Possessed they'd be pretty useless.

That's first borns. I'm talking about primaris. The God maker organ is going to ^chances to over come and change the story on that. We do not know how the red thirst will affect more pure gene seed, nor do we know what it will do to primaris.

 

Your in the past on that one.

[Panzer]

That's true. Everything is open with Primaris.

[Blindhamster]

 

 

Mephiston succumbed to and overcame the red thirst.

That got retconned a long long time ago. He overcame the Black Rage according to current fluff.

In the lemartes novel it says he overcame the thirst whilst lemartes is the closest to overcome the rage.

 

The issue with mephiston is he has always been portrayed as overcoming the rage (visions of sanguinius whilst in the rubble etc). So perhaps he actually overcame both.

 

Mephiston actually has quite messy lore in that regard, which stems from the indecision over which attributes came from which curse I suppose.

[Frater Antodeniel]

I think that one of the main problem of the Blood Angels lore is that to explain one character, you must also explain all the other major characters.

 

Lemartes novel explored Lemartes point of view of the Black Rage, and how he experienced the flashbacks, while it also depicted how the Red Thirst affected those that fell to it (most of the 3rd company).

 

Mephiston Novels, those from Darius Hinks, it explore the character that Mephiston is and how it behave while also exploring shards of his past experiences to explain the nature of the being he has become.

 

Dante by Guy Haley, depict how Dante became a Blood Angels, and his experience of the Red Thirst, the fear of it, and the later rejection/abstinence of blood consumption from "living" being. In Dante, the Black Rage appears as a secondary, more distant yet deadly curse, while it is mostly the Red Thirst that is explored by Guy Haley in the book. On the other side of coin, in Devastation of Baal, it is the Black Rage that in the end appear to be the last trial of the character, when Dante fight against it, wishing to remain sain to the very end, fighting as Dante and not as Sanguinius. (In this regard, Dante acted like Lemartes did, fighting to keep the head out of the water that is the Black Rage.)

 

But two important Characters remains unexplored :

 

Astorath and Corbulo, each also exploring both the Black Rage and the Red Thirst.

 

Those two character are as much important as the three others, and are also important to explain the twin curses.

 

So there are still plenty of holes in the Lore to be filled.

 

--------------------------------------

 

Also, on a more personal note, the depiction of the Red Thirst victims in Devastation of Baal were not really the best in my opinion.

 

I particularly disliked the depiction of the Knights of Blood, with the red skin, bulbous yellow eyes...it particulary was disapointing after having introduced them as warrior scholars, who due to the Curse of the Red Thirst, weren't able to control themselves fully when in battle. I think there was little need for this daemonic-like appearance, except to create a link that i dislike even more between Blood Angels and Khorne daemons.

 

On the other hand, the Amarean prisonners, depicted as bigger, wilder, savage, gorilla-like, primal Astartes, were interresting. Plus to note that if the Red Thirst were to provoke physical changes on Astartes, on the same level as the Wulfen, it would make Mephiston changes even more interresting in this regard.

[Panzer]

That's just how 40k lore in general works to be honest. Once you start explaining a little detail to someone you end up explaining the whole setting for hours.

[Klod]

 

Look, we all have our things we like about "our dudes," so I won't crush others' dreams, but I just see a removal of the Black Rage as something disastrous. 

Wholeheartedly agree. If GW goes and says that "yes, Primaris are immune to Black Rage, period" I think that's gona be the nail in the coffin for me. No pun intended.

[Zephaniah Adriyen]

That's just how 40k lore in general works to be honest. Once you start explaining a little detail to someone you end up explaining the whole setting for hours.

That's a good thing.

[Neuralshock]

I agree to an extent that the trope of the death company has been overplayed, but it's still cool to have bezerker space vampires. Maybe with some narrative Kung Fu primaris BA can have a "battle zen" where they balance the dual aspects of rage and nobility. Because you know, Mary Sue

[Blindhamster]

I agree to an extent that the trope of the death company has been overplayed, but it's still cool to have bezerker space vampires. Maybe with some narrative Kung Fu primaris BA can have a "battle zen" where they balance the dual aspects of rage and nobility. Because you know, Mary Sue

Except they arent Gary Stus

[Cleon]

 

 

Look, we all have our things we like about "our dudes," so I won't crush others' dreams, but I just see a removal of the Black Rage as something disastrous. 

Wholeheartedly agree. If GW goes and says that "yes, Primaris are immune to Black Rage, period" I think that's gona be the nail in the coffin for me. No pun intended.

 

 

I wouldn't mind a state where the Indominus crusade Primaris are immune to the rage as they were implanted before Sanguinious death and were in suspended animation of some sort when it happened. All future Primaris, well they connect with the curse when their gene seed is awoken and it's right back.

[Indefragable]

 

I agree to an extent that the trope of the death company has been overplayed, but it's still cool to have bezerker space vampires. Maybe with some narrative Kung Fu primaris BA can have a "battle zen" where they balance the dual aspects of rage and nobility. Because you know, Mary Sue

Except they arent Gary Stus

 

 

Mary Sue/Gary Stu mode is where they are suddenly cured because Belisarius Cawl Does it All! (weeknights at 7:00 on UPN 38). I don't want to further derail the thread any further, but I can't wrap my head around how anyone with the blood of Sanginius would not be able to fall to the Black Rage. It seems like such an all or nothing prospect. Some are more immune to it than others, like anything in life, and some may never ever fall, but there's still that possibility that it can happen, however lessened or remote.

[Blindhamster]

I've always liked the interpretation that its based on geneseed that belonged to brothers at the siege. Just made sense to me.

 

But primaris have been shown to have their share of flaws and issues. Even if they turn out to be immune to the black rage, that actually has it's own negatives as was depicted in the shorts story including astorath... they wouldn't be Mary Sue's. At most, you could argue cawl is because he was able to remove it. But considering what we now know about him. That's a push too.

 

Guess we see what happens! Maybe cool new stuff to learn later this month!

[Spagunk]

I've always liked the interpretation that its based on geneseed that belonged to brothers at the siege. Just made sense to me.

 

That's my specific head cannon related to black rage too.

[brother_b]

Iron Hands might have lost their Primarch but they sure did get a kick ass codex. I’m more bummed out that an iconic chapter like BA is still suffering horrible rules and design vs. what vanilla dexes get.

 

I mean Dante should be so much more powerful. Whatevs bring us Mephiston and let’s go to war!