Scribe Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 (edited) Anyone with the actual physical book up for putting the dramatis personae here? I’m curious how to spell the actual names like Neeberand and Cadwalla.I got that in 5 min... Saul Niborran, Solar General. Cadwalder, Huscarl. Edited August 23, 2020 by Scribe Indefragable 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/359800-siege-of-terra-saturnine-by-dan-abnett/page/41/#findComment-5590918 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indefragable Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 (edited) Anyone with the actual physical book up for putting the dramatis personae here? I’m curious how to spell the actual names like Neeberand and Cadwalla.I got that in 5 min... Saul Niborran, Solar General. Cadwalder, Huscarl. https://images.app.goo.gl/E6rkKDXPK7i3NjDb9 Edited August 23, 2020 by Indefragable Scribe and m0nolith 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/359800-siege-of-terra-saturnine-by-dan-abnett/page/41/#findComment-5590963 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 Related: does anyone have high res images of the Saturnine map? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/359800-siege-of-terra-saturnine-by-dan-abnett/page/41/#findComment-5590979 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 I'm still expecting a lot more from Sig than cutting a pre-occupied Aximand's hand off and taking a Traitor blade for Dorn and pulling it away (his most memorable scenes in Saturnine to me) To be clear, I don't think that I'm entitled to it or that the authours ought to cater to my preferences...but a fan can hope, right??? Brother Lunkhead 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/359800-siege-of-terra-saturnine-by-dan-abnett/page/41/#findComment-5590987 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 I can see it being that once the Loyalists are really on the back foot, that's when Sigismund goes on the offensive. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/359800-siege-of-terra-saturnine-by-dan-abnett/page/41/#findComment-5591001 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indefragable Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 I don’t know if it’s the Worf effect, or it’s collective authorial overcompensation....but Sigismund does feel off. It’s almost like each portrayal wants to show him not doing remarkable stuff b/c they expect others to show him doing crazy stuff. And I’m one who thinks Sig is pretty much OP in 30k... I would say Angron would be the Worf on the traitor side...except he really hasn’t done anything of note throughout the entire HH series other than Betrayer ... or am I missing something? The trick Perturabo pulls with the Iron Circle in Slaves to Darkness is kind of neat...but it’s disappointing in the big picture. Like....yes, it makes Pert come off as clever and able to defeat his brothers with his brain instead of his bicep....but like......isn’t Angron’s entire shtick that he is the one dude that would be strong enough to just break through...even before he gets up-daemoned? Didn’t he defeat Curze’s inescapable maze by just breaking through all the walls? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/359800-siege-of-terra-saturnine-by-dan-abnett/page/41/#findComment-5591035 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 I was OK with Angron getting shot up by Pert. Other than Betrayer, peak of the WE experience imo, he's not supposed to do much in the story but wreck stuff and stare down the Angel...which we covered. I think Sigismund came off as petulant in this book, but is that his character now? Someone ruined him for me once he became a True Believer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/359800-siege-of-terra-saturnine-by-dan-abnett/page/41/#findComment-5591037 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 I liked what Pert did in StD, because it showed up the downsides to what ascension brings. The real Worf to me is Lucius. His whole schtick was supposed to be that he was an unbeaten duellist, and I honestly can't think of a single duel he's won, but he's been punked by everyone he's come up against. In Sigismund's case, I don't think it's the Worf Effect, I think it's supposed to be that he's having a crisis of faith. Unfortunately, he's fallen trap to the same thing as Ferrus, and he never got any time in the limelight before everything went to crud. Instead, we're just told over and over that he's supposed to be the bestest duelist ever, but haven't really ever been shown it. Scribe, DarKnight and Noserenda 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/359800-siege-of-terra-saturnine-by-dan-abnett/page/41/#findComment-5591039 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc warhammer Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 I don’t know if it’s the Worf effect, or it’s collective authorial overcompensation....but Sigismund does feel off. It’s almost like each portrayal wants to show him not doing remarkable stuff b/c they expect others to show him doing crazy stuff. And I’m one who thinks Sig is pretty much OP in 30k... I would say Angron would be the Worf on the traitor side...except he really hasn’t done anything of note throughout the entire HH series other than Betrayer ... or am I missing something? The trick Perturabo pulls with the Iron Circle in Slaves to Darkness is kind of neat...but it’s disappointing in the big picture. Like....yes, it makes Pert come off as clever and able to defeat his brothers with his brain instead of his bicep....but like......isn’t Angron’s entire shtick that he is the one dude that would be strong enough to just break through...even before he gets up-daemoned? Didn’t he defeat Curze’s inescapable maze by just breaking through all the walls? i'm not a fan of that schtick, so i'm glad it didn't happen with perts Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/359800-siege-of-terra-saturnine-by-dan-abnett/page/41/#findComment-5591042 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Lunkhead Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 (edited) I'm still expecting a lot more from Sig than cutting a pre-occupied Aximand's hand off and taking a Traitor blade for Dorn and pulling it away (his most memorable scenes in Saturnine to me) To be clear, I don't think that I'm entitled to it or that the authours ought to cater to my preferences...but a fan can hope, right??? Actually, I think you are "entitled" Sigismund has been set up by both the general lore and various segments of the HH as one of THE major bad asses with a sword (Templar by John French springs to mind as a good HH example) and rightly so, I think. But, we just didn't get that here and I think we should have. Edited August 24, 2020 by Brother Lunkhead Lord_Caerolion 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/359800-siege-of-terra-saturnine-by-dan-abnett/page/41/#findComment-5591122 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 Templar captured some of his consummate prowess in the Jubal duel (and Jubal came across well too)...but it's all been a bit underwhelming since then. So here's hoping. Don't even get me started on how they did my boy Jubal dirty. Alas, poor [Jubal]! I knew him, [b&C]: a fellow of infinite jest, of most excellent [skill] Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/359800-siege-of-terra-saturnine-by-dan-abnett/page/41/#findComment-5591174 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedFurioso Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 Related: does anyone have high res images of the Saturnine map? https://imgur.com/q1jLDjd Cactus 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/359800-siege-of-terra-saturnine-by-dan-abnett/page/41/#findComment-5591193 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Golem Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 I really, really liked Sigismund vs the Sons of Horus in Solar War. It might not have been a display of his pure swordsmanship, but damn did that scene stick with me. Pariah32 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/359800-siege-of-terra-saturnine-by-dan-abnett/page/41/#findComment-5591195 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pariah32 Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 This has been a truly fascinating thread. To weigh in here with a lot less words, this for me is by far my favourite Siege of Terra novel. I thought Dan nailed every single element of this book. There was so much rich content that I need to read it all again. Mind-blowingly brilliant! I would put it up there with 'know no fear' and 'Legion' as one of Dan's best HH contributions. RedFurioso and Indefragable 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/359800-siege-of-terra-saturnine-by-dan-abnett/page/41/#findComment-5591212 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scammel Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 Theory: the rise of the Imperial Cult and the pressing of the Sigismund button are Dorn's Lightning Tower. He's not really perturbed by tearing down a palace to build a fortress - he's terrified of the fact that he may have to sanction theism to defeat the traitors, bringing an end to what the Imperium could have been. DukeLeto69 and Indefragable 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/359800-siege-of-terra-saturnine-by-dan-abnett/page/41/#findComment-5591306 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedor Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 I'm not too worried about Sigismund not getting his moments. Still 4 books left and it seems they wanted a bit more of an arc for him rather than just slaughtering traitors with ease non-stop over all 8 books. Any more thoughts on Marr and Aximand? What happened to those two is my main lingering gripe with the book. I'm all for some surprise deaths, yet the way those two went out just feels more like wasted characters to me. Both were ideal figures for further development and viewpoints into the legion over the last half of the series, Marr especially as an up and comer. DarkChaplain 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/359800-siege-of-terra-saturnine-by-dan-abnett/page/41/#findComment-5591396 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 Theory: the rise of the Imperial Cult and the pressing of the Sigismund button are Dorn's Lightning Tower. He's not really perturbed by tearing down a palace to build a fortress - he's terrified of the fact that he may have to sanction theism to defeat the traitors, bringing an end to what the Imperium could have been. Possible. My favorite short of the series is the Last Remembrancer, and watching Dorn struggle with killing the Imperium is always enjoyable. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/359800-siege-of-terra-saturnine-by-dan-abnett/page/41/#findComment-5591413 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Lunkhead Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 Theory: the rise of the Imperial Cult and the pressing of the Sigismund button are Dorn's Lightning Tower. He's not really perturbed by tearing down a palace to build a fortress - he's terrified of the fact that he may have to sanction theism to defeat the traitors, bringing an end to what the Imperium could have been. Interesting..... perhaps I missed this part in the book. Where does this subject appear in Saturnine? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/359800-siege-of-terra-saturnine-by-dan-abnett/page/41/#findComment-5591434 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 The cult is a major current in the book, and there are references to dorns tower of fear at the start and end. Roomsky 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/359800-siege-of-terra-saturnine-by-dan-abnett/page/41/#findComment-5591451 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 I really, really liked Sigismund vs the Sons of Horus in Solar War. It might not have been a display of his pure swordsmanship, but damn did that scene stick with me. I'd say it's of a piece with Abaddon in the same book and here. I don't want Sigismund to be so much better than the other Great Warriors. I'm quite happy with what we've had so far. DarkChaplain and Fire Golem 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/359800-siege-of-terra-saturnine-by-dan-abnett/page/41/#findComment-5591452 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkChaplain Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 The cult is a major current in the book, and there are references to dorns tower of fear at the start and end. Yup. Sindermann even asks the "what are you afraid of? what are you really afraid of" line from The Lightning Tower in the prologue. Kelborn 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/359800-siege-of-terra-saturnine-by-dan-abnett/page/41/#findComment-5591467 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 I mean it's kind of one of my issues with the setting. Is the tragedy what Abnett covers in the afterword? Humanity needs their faith, even if that really just means Hell is real? That Lorgar was right? That the Imperial Truth was always just a lie? That the entire crusade was built on a falsehood? I mean as a forever Chaos player that simple rings as pure as it gets. :p Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/359800-siege-of-terra-saturnine-by-dan-abnett/page/41/#findComment-5591485 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 Related: does anyone have high res images of the Saturnine map? https://imgur.com/q1jLDjd Maybe it just my app but that one doesn’t have legible writing. The other ones come in high res with the details defined but all the ones I’m finding are snaps of the map from the LE version Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/359800-siege-of-terra-saturnine-by-dan-abnett/page/41/#findComment-5591497 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Lunkhead Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 The cult is a major current in the book, and there are references to dorns tower of fear at the start and end. I was aware of that. I thought I may have missed a specific scene in the book. Thanks for clarification Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/359800-siege-of-terra-saturnine-by-dan-abnett/page/41/#findComment-5591698 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 Sigismund is supposed to be a step or two above the other Great Warriors...just not a league above them. It's quite obvious from First Wall that by giving themselves to Chaos, the likes of Khârn have gained a major advantage over Sigismund and other loyalist champions...another example would be Skraivok's Daemonsword giving him a marked advantage against Raldoron in LatD. Interested in how another another authour executes the idea of Sigismund ascending to become the Emperor's Champion. Is the Emperor going to bless him or is Keeler going to unlock his faith and fury? Have to avoid it being hokey, like an RPG power-up Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/359800-siege-of-terra-saturnine-by-dan-abnett/page/41/#findComment-5591711 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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