5+ Flesh is Weak

Pandaemonium · December 20, 2019

Oops, I meant a second warlord trait. Isn't it possibble to give the apothacary the double heal and 5+++ buffs by making him the warlord and giving him 2 traits?

Pretty sure you can't get both, because the only way to get a 2nd trait on an IH character is through Paragon of Iron, which requires the new trait to come from the IH warlord trait table. Since Hero of the Chapter requires it to not be your warlord.

chapter master 454 · December 21, 2019

Oops, I meant a second warlord trait. Isn't it possibble to give the apothacary the double heal and 5+++ buffs by making him the warlord and giving him 2 traits?

All of the stratagems relating to gaining a second warlord trait always specify that the second trait must be one from the supplement you are using (at the very least, the iron hand version does). Sadly this means you can never have both of the Master of Chapter traits for any of the upgraded characters, which does suck however Selfless Healer is extremely potent on single wound units (picking up 2 guys a turn is really good).

In relation to the list, some thoughts have been made. Modifying the list to have a more supporting elements and leaving the troop slots to minimal takes (3 intercessors, 3 scouts) but now taking a Chief Librarian as the warlord, hero the apothecary to keep father but the Librarian will be taking High scholar and Iron Will along with the Neural Shroud. He can now deny 3 powers a turn with +1 to the deny roll (and thanks to Iron Hands I can even attempt to deny ether a 4th power or double attempt a deny thanks to one of their stratagems). The four powers are Psychic Fortress, Psysteel Armour (warlord trait) and Might of Heroes. The one thing the list I faced did highlight was a massive opening in my psychic defence line which is one of the major ways to put hurt on me. Psychic Fortress helps by making the closest Centurion (or whatever unit I want) be able to shrug mortals on 4+ in the psychic phase, Might of Heroes is there to help boost the Apothecaries survival rate or make one of the Lieutenants more able to remove a problem melee unit while Psysteel is the raw +1 to armour saves for the centurions.

Sadly due to the holidays won't be able to test it out but theres something to stew on for some time.

faithonwings · December 21, 2019

Oops, I meant a second warlord trait. Isn't it possibble to give the apothacary the double heal and 5+++ buffs by making him the warlord and giving him 2 traits?

All of the stratagems relating to gaining a second warlord trait always specify that the second trait must be one from the supplement you are using (at the very least, the iron hand version does). Sadly this means you can never have both of the Master of Chapter traits for any of the upgraded characters, which does suck however Selfless Healer is extremely potent on single wound units (picking up 2 guys a turn is really good).

In relation to the list, some thoughts have been made. Modifying the list to have a more supporting elements and leaving the troop slots to minimal takes (3 intercessors, 3 scouts) but now taking a Chief Librarian as the warlord, hero the apothecary to keep father but the Librarian will be taking High scholar and Iron Will along with the Neural Shroud. He can now deny 3 powers a turn with +1 to the deny roll (and thanks to Iron Hands I can even attempt to deny ether a 4th power or double attempt a deny thanks to one of their stratagems). The four powers are Psychic Fortress, Psysteel Armour (warlord trait) and Might of Heroes. The one thing the list I faced did highlight was a massive opening in my psychic defence line which is one of the major ways to put hurt on me. Psychic Fortress helps by making the closest Centurion (or whatever unit I want) be able to shrug mortals on 4+ in the psychic phase, Might of Heroes is there to help boost the Apothecaries survival rate or make one of the Lieutenants more able to remove a problem melee unit while Psysteel is the raw +1 to armour saves for the centurions.

Sadly due to the holidays won't be able to test it out but theres something to stew on for some time.

That's right. Only focused on the WL having two WL traits, forgot the second one is supplement only. (ussualy not a problem since most are good, but in this case, to bad)

As for you'r supper buffed libby, have you considerd use Inquisitors? Especcialy Lord Hector Rex who can deny 3 without the use of any strats and a 4th with the use of a strat? Might be worth taking a normal libby for psysteel armor. there is also a chaplain lithany against mortal wounds right?

DTW is ussualy not very neccesary in my meta, it's ussualy just the one psyker for support (if any).

chapter master 454 · December 22, 2019

It is a thought for tech really. Going in with Hector is nice but he really is just a one trick pony and purely there for DTW then. The libby acts as a flex point to work around as I am sure in most scenes, making stratagem choices like the librarian isn't hard locked to the list (only warlord I believe). On a normal run, I would likely just run Psysteel and fury of medusa, the other powers are purely nice to have and work well with ease of access.

Psychic Fortress is better than the chaplain litany due to not only making the target immune to morale but also gives a 4+++ in the psychic phase.

It is just to add flex to the list.

However in the real version of the list (18 centurions being the goal to get to), I likely will need to run a battery battalion. Doctrines really don't matter that much and the CP is just better overall and the 30 odd spare bodies will help soak any extra fire needed.

BLACK BLŒ FLY · December 22, 2019

You always target the unbuffed units YO.

faithonwings · December 22, 2019

Hector Rex has awesome powers but most are agressive rather than defensive. He can deny overwatch and get CP from a target character. Also he can force a target enemy non vehicle model to shoot.

Defensive, hé can give a unit a 5++ save.

His powers might not be what you are looking for, but he's hardly just there for DTW I think

Edited December 22, 2019 by faithonwings

Aothaine · December 22, 2019

Great conversation going on here but it is kind of moving away from the 5+++ topic. It might be better if we start up a new thread specifically about how to use Centurions with Iron Hands. It will make the information a lot easier for future Iron Hands players to find.

ERJAK · January 1, 2020

What makes me sad is that if you take a Techmarine and apothecary with these faith and fury upgrades, there’s almost no reason at all to take Feirros :(

5+++ is like way better than a 5++ on 3+ save infantry, and the Techmarine can get +1 to hit bubble.

Why wouldn't you do both? If ypu care that much about your infantry surviving, you should absolutely have a 5++ and a 5+++. 3+armor gets dropped to 6+ or worse all the time, especially against other marines.

Lord Blackwood · January 1, 2020

Because you can't take both a master of the forge and Ferrios as they are both Masters of the Forge of which you are limited to one.

Raktra · January 1, 2020

He means both the Apothecary for the 5+++ and Daddy F-Major for the 5++.

I think. It reads like I was being agreed with so I’m gonna take it!

jeremy1391 · January 2, 2020

Iron hands with a chief apothecary a lieutenant Feirros and a chaplain and 6 beefy stalker bolter intercessor squads seems pretty beefy as a base for a double battalion

jeremy1391 · January 2, 2020

++ Brigade Detachment +12CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [112 PL, 2,000pts, -4CP] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

**Chapter Selection**: Iron Hands

+ HQ +

Iron Father Feirros [6 PL, 110pts]

Primaris Chaplain [4 PL, 77pts]: 1. Litany of Faith, Litany of Hate

Primaris Chapter Master [5 PL, 87pts, -2CP]: Master-crafted stalker bolt rifle, Power sword, Stratagem: Chapter Master, Target Protocols, Warlord

Primaris Lieutenants [4 PL, 70pts]

. Primaris Lieutenant: Master-crafted stalker bolt rifle

+ Troops +