New to Death Guard

[techsoldaten]

Hey guys -

 

Starting a Death Guard army, could use some advice. The wife is asking for a list of Christmas demands, I'm really torn on how to proceed.

 

1) Are Plagueburst Crawlers worth it? I don't see many in competitive lists, wondering if they significantly outperform Laspreds.

 

2) Are Deathshroud Terminators worth it? Right now I have 3, which I think would be enough Look Our Sirs for most games.

 

3) With Poxwalkers - when they kill enemy infantry, does it cost points to add models to the unit?

 

 

[Special Officer Doofy]

1) PBC's can be if you use them right. Alot of people use them with spitters for an in your face tank with some auto hits and T8, 3+/5++/5+++ with 12w. Don Hooson (I think it was him) had a tournament list that won some games (mind you before the rule of three) that had 10 of them haha. I always use atleast one.

 

2)Hmmmm I don't use them. They are good for keeping Morty alive turn one if you go second and IF they ever get in melee their melee is nice. I saw rumors saying that cult marines are going to 2w and some went as far as their terminator counterparts getting another wound as well. And another rumor said terminator points are going down. So if they get another wound for the same points or less then all the better I suppose. But I wouldn't hold my breathe until CA.

 

3) It cost points if they go over their original amount I believe. So if you bring 20, lose 10, but regain 7, you don't pay for the 7 because your unit strength is still less then the starting point. If it goes over, then you pay. One of the older Faq's touched more on it and that one strategem to add more I think. Also heard a rumor they are having a points drop in CA.

 

My personal opinion? Daemon Prince's, PBC and the drones with spitters are some of my favorite units. If you want drones with spitters, one comes in the dark imperium half that you can usually buy for $60, a new Drone from GW is $50 but for 60 you get the 7 Pm's, 20 poxwalkers and three characters. That's at least a start.

 

P.s. Sorry for the reliance on rumors. But I'm sure PA and CA might tweek a thing or two.

[jgascoine011]

1) No they are not worth it, and no they dont outperform las preds.

However las preds are more points

 

2) No terminators are not worth it.

No delivery system etc means they will pretty much do nothing most games, unless you play a combat focused army (nids etc). In that case yes they will be pretty amazing.

 

3) See above

[happyslugger]

We are really struggling as a mono codex in my opinion.

 

PBC you can park on an objective I suppose..they can be a pain to shift, but their firing output always makes me cry.

 

I love the DS models but can't remember the last time I used them.

 

PWs were great originally...now used as cheap fodder to hold backfield objectives.

 

Still fun when you take loads of them with typhus..but not at all competitive.

[Dallas Drake]

1) Yes. They’re one of our best units. T8 and 3+/5++/5+++ will hang around. Use 3 with spitters to hold obj and screen your units. For their points I find them very competitive if not quite as hot as when they dropped.

 

2) No idea. Always took Blightlords who are decent and always a blast to play with.

 

3) Already answered.

[Ishagu]

Deathshroud are good for keeping Mortarion alive, they can keep him from taking wounds on a clutch 1st turn.

 

The little vehicle with the meltas and missiles are surprisingly punchy in games too.

Edited November 21, 2019 by Ishagu

[Emicus]

PBC have line of sight ignoring multi-damage weaponry and are durable as all he'll (t8, buncha wounds, invuln, DR)

 

But of course you need more than 1. If you take flamers you can advance up the field and be a nuisance or plod and use stratagem to keep your mortar shooting.

 

If you are taking pox walkers it's either minimal to sit on backfield objective or an absolute horde, especially if you want typhus footslogging with them.

[DuskRaider]

I couldn't tell you about PBCs, surprisingly I don't have any.

 

Deathshroud are slow but extremely durable. When I use mine, I DS them to the middle of the board and have Mortarion fly up behind them. They soak up damage well and if anything decides to feel froggy and leap into combat, they definitely hold their own. I've had them hold off a surprising amount of hordes while taking minimal damage many a game and their highlight for me was holding off a perpetually returning Gant horde the entire game.

 

Poxwalkers aren't really that good anymore. They went from being arguably one of the best units in at least the codex if not the game to almost completely useless due to having to pay for the extras. Nothing worse than alotting points to models that may never show up.

[Guzzlrr]

Personally I love Death Guard. People say death Guard are slow have never played me.

[techsoldaten]

Thank you for all the feedback, very useful.

 

Thought it might be fun to ask the questions a different way. This is what I have, tell me how you would make it better.

 

I typically play 2k games in matched points games in a competitive meta. The armies I face most are NuMarines, Imperial Knights, Dark Eldar, Orks, and Astra Militarum. While I'm happy to soup, I'd rather have a mono-legion army to start with. I'm not looking for a list to copy, what would be most useful is suggestions on how to use certain units along with reasons why.

 

It feels like I could build something semi-competitive around Mortarion and the units I already have, but I fear I'm overlooking some great strength in the army. The big thing is I don't see where the distraction units are, I might get PBCs for that purpose. Also, I know I'm light on heavy weapons, it feels like they'd be wasted on Plague Marines but I'm not sure where else to put them. Some of the elite characters confuse me, like I'm not sure what the real use is for Foul Blightspawn or Biologus Putrifiers. Do Plague Marines really get that much out of their grenades?

 

LOW

------------

- Mortarion

 

HQ

-----------

- Typhus

- Lord of Contagion

- Noxious Blightbringer

- Malignant Plaguecaster

- Daemon Prince with Wings

 

Troops

-----------

- 40 Poxwalkers

 

- 4x7 Plague Marines

-- 1 with Plague Flail

-- 2 with Plasma

-- 1 with Blight Launcher

 

Elites

-------------

- 5x Blightlord Terminators

-- 1x Plague Flail

-- 1x Blight Launcher

 

- 3x Deathshroud Terminators

 

Fast Attack

-------------

- 1 Myphitic Blight Hauler

- 2 Foetid Bloat Drones

-- Plaguespitters

 

Assorted Other Chaos

--------------------------

- Land Raiders, Rhinos, Predators, Defilers, Helbrutes, Spawn, Cultists, etc from my Black Legion army

- 30x of the old Plague Marines with power fists, missile launchers, etc, ready to be rebased.

 

Nurgle Daemons

-------------------

- GUO

- 1 Poxbringer

- 40x Plaguebearers

- 3x Nurglings

- 3x Plague Drones

- 2x Beasts of Nurgle

[jgascoine011]

Ok, as it stands, asking what is good in a death guard list is like asking what is good in a waste heap...its all pretty much trash

 

Mortarion sucks, he is actually terrible

He is not great a combat, pretty terrible at shooting, and meah at psychic.

He also dies...alot, usually in 1 turn.

And he requires so many things to keep him alive (deathshroud etc). But he sucks even when he is alive

 

Land Raiders and Rhinos suuuuuuuck.

You are paying points to have your guys not shoot.

And when they die, which they will, they end up killing your own guys.

Land Raiders are stupidly easy to kill. 

A nurgle land raider from alpha legion with a chaplin giving -1 to hit is the only way to run it.

 

Hellbrutes

Are meah.

Take 3 with lascannons and fist if you do take them.

 

Typhus/Lord Contagion/Any DG Terminator

You want to know what is terrible? A unit designed for CC with a movment of 4"

 

Malgiant Plaguecaster

Yay, finaly a half decent DG unit

 

Nurgle Daemon Prince

Probably Best Daemon Prince in the game.

 

Poxwalkers

These are again garbage.

For screens they are ok i guess. Nurglings do it just as good, if not better, for cheaper.

 

Bloat Drones/PBC

Very funny watching your opponent try to kill them.

Its not very funny when you watch them try to kill something.

 

MBH

Stupid weapon load out, all models have to be with 7" to recieve cover....next

 

Plague Marines

Just compare these to plaguebearers. Its not even funny out crap we are. For more than half the points they get, -1 to hit, 5++, re-roll all fail to wound, double damage on 6s, regain models on a Ld roll of 1. We get a 3+ save (vs 5++), 3+WS/BS (vs 4+WS), T5 (vs T4), and re-roll 1s to wound.

Again, they are more than half the points.

 

 

Nurgle Daemons

Yea, just play those instead.

GW seems to have forgotten about DG. We were supposed to be the poster child of evil 40k. Since out release CSM have a 2 codexs, 2 suppliments and now F&F...And they are considered bad.

[Special Officer Doofy]

Bloat Drones/PBC

Very funny watching your opponent try to kill them.

Its not very funny when you watch them try to kill something.

 

Hahahaha that made me laugh. Sad but true.

 

Mortarion does suck. At 470pts and being pretty much pure melee in the slowest army in the game, fluff wise being the toughest primarch, should have been T8 and 2+ save.

 

The only thing I disagree with you on is the Daemon Prince. It probably is our best unit but I think the thousand sons one is the best. 4++ and two spells with access to 3 psychic spell lists is better then 5+++ in most cases.

[Wolf Lord Loki]

I've found A rhino sucks, SEVERAL rhino's are pretty good.

 

If you are putting things in a rhino plan for them to be in melee. You have options to make them more melee focused.

 

If you are throwing a shooting squad into a rhino to drive them at the enemy then they are bound to be less successful.

 

With Hateful Assault they are alot more potent than they were. But you have to build your army around the idea that they will be charging into the enemy. Flails are good, mine wiped a tactical squad by themselve (which was disappointing in the sense I had converted the rest of the squad to have a selection of cc weapons and never got a chance to use them...)

[jgascoine011]

I've found A rhino sucks, SEVERAL rhino's are pretty good.

 

If you are putting things in a rhino plan for them to be in melee. You have options to make them more melee focused.

 

If you are throwing a shooting squad into a rhino to drive them at the enemy then they are bound to be less successful.

 

With Hateful Assault they are alot more potent than they were. But you have to build your army around the idea that they will be charging into the enemy. Flails are good, mine wiped a tactical squad by themselve (which was disappointing in the sense I had converted the rest of the squad to have a selection of cc weapons and never got a chance to use them...)

 

At which point ask yourself why you are not play world eaters who can do rhino rush better

[Wolf Lord Loki]

At which point ask yourself why you are not play world eaters who can do rhino rush better

Because I find Berserkers to be a tad dull. I like strategicly variable armies so I don't get tied in to one play type. And I don't play tournaments just with a group of mates.

 

I find I can build many different types of army with the Death Guard. Castles, hoards, infantry, rhino rush.

 

They probably aren't as good as if I had a dedicated cult/legion force but they are good enough for me

[techsoldaten]

 

At which point ask yourself why you are not play world eaters who can do rhino rush better

Because I find Berserkers to be a tad dull. I like strategicly variable armies so I don't get tied in to one play type. And I don't play tournaments just with a group of mates.

 

I find I can build many different types of army with the Death Guard. Castles, hoards, infantry, rhino rush.

 

They probably aren't as good as if I had a dedicated cult/legion force but they are good enough for me

 

 

I'd say World Eaters aren't exactly one dimensional, it's just most people use them for the Rhino Rush.

 

World Eater's Warp Talons with Red Butchers could be a good deep strike option now that they have more reliable charges. I could see taking WE Jump Pack lords in a Supreme Command Detachment or loading up on large Berzerker squads and using Apoplectic Frenzy to make sure they get there.

 

PA2 created some tactical options. Not sure if they're better than other Legions, but they're great for the fluffy player.

[Dallas Drake]

Typhus/Lord Contagion/Any DG Terminator

You want to know what is terrible? A unit designed for CC with a movment of 4"

 

I have to disagree here. Blighlords may only move 4” but if you DS in a sensible place and charge multiple units then use your consolidate and pile in intelligently they can get about. Being tough as nails means they can often afford to declare a charge against 2 or 3 units to ensure they get into combat and move that 2d6”. I use this tactic with my Custodes all the time and it’s solid. A Blightlord in melee with hateful assault and a flail is an absolute blender too.

[jgascoine011]

 

Typhus/Lord Contagion/Any DG Terminator

You want to know what is terrible? A unit designed for CC with a movment of 4"

I have to disagree here. Blighlords may only move 4” but if you DS in a sensible place and charge multiple units then use your consolidate and pile in intelligently they can get about. Being tough as nails means they can often afford to declare a charge against 2 or 3 units to ensure they get into combat and move that 2d6”. I use this tactic with my Custodes all the time and it’s solid. A Blightlord in melee with hateful assault and a flail is an absolute blender too.

 

 

Ok lets assume you are not getting screened out and can deepstrike where you want.

 

You have to roll a 9+.

If you make it then yay great.

If you fail, which is more likely, then they move 4"...yea, :/

[Wolf Lord Loki]

Of course you could use the combi weapon with assault weapons like flamers or melta so you can run and shoot

[Dallas Drake]

 

 

 

Typhus/Lord Contagion/Any DG Terminator

You want to know what is terrible? A unit designed for CC with a movment of 4"

I have to disagree here. Blighlords may only move 4” but if you DS in a sensible place and charge multiple units then use your consolidate and pile in intelligently they can get about. Being tough as nails means they can often afford to declare a charge against 2 or 3 units to ensure they get into combat and move that 2d6”. I use this tactic with my Custodes all the time and it’s solid. A Blightlord in melee with hateful assault and a flail is an absolute blender too.

Ok lets assume you are not getting screened out and can deepstrike where you want.

 

You have to roll a 9+.

If you make it then yay great.

If you fail, which is more likely, then they move 4"...yea, :/

Oh yeah. I’m not debating how hit and miss DS then charge is. My main point (that I’m not sure I got across) was that 4” move isn’t that much of an issue when we’re tough enough to multi-charge units. Say we DS in on a flank then fail a charge but next turn move and are say 7” and 10” away from two enemy units, then they can declare against both and then act accordingly depending on what they roll. Dropping on a flank often means we can pen in a slower enemy. Fast armies that can quickly outmanoeuvre BLs are a problem though, against these dropping on objectives is often best. BLs are tough cookies and with cloud of flies we can make them un-targetable if needs be with some clever play (usually involving PBCs). Mine usually do their best work turn 3 & 4 after my 2 butcher cannon arrays and 4 butcher cannons have removed screens etc.

 

Edit: made a mess of formatting.

Edited November 26, 2019 by Dallas Drake

[jgascoine011]

 

 

 

Typhus/Lord Contagion/Any DG Terminator

You want to know what is terrible? A unit designed for CC with a movment of 4"

I have to disagree here. Blighlords may only move 4” but if you DS in a sensible place and charge multiple units then use your consolidate and pile in intelligently they can get about. Being tough as nails means they can often afford to declare a charge against 2 or 3 units to ensure they get into combat and move that 2d6”. I use this tactic with my Custodes all the time and it’s solid. A Blightlord in melee with hateful assault and a flail is an absolute blender too.

Ok lets assume you are not getting screened out and can deepstrike where you want.

 

You have to roll a 9+.

If you make it then yay great.

If you fail, which is more likely, then they move 4"...yea, :/

Oh yeah. I’m not debating how hit and miss DS then charge is. My main point (that I’m not sure I got across) was that 4” move isn’t that much of an issue when we’re tough enough to multi-charge units. Say we DS in on a flank then fail a charge but next turn move and are say 7” and 10” away from two enemy units, then they can declare against both and then act accordingly depending on what they roll. Dropping on a flank often means we can pen in a slower enemy. Fast armies that can quickly outmanoeuvre BLs are a problem though, against these dropping on objectives is often best. BLs are tough cookies and with cloud of flies we can make them un-targetable if needs be with some clever play (usually involving PBCs). Mine usually do their best work turn 3 & 4 after my 2 butcher cannon arrays and 4 butcher cannons have removed screens etc.

 

Edit: made a mess of formatting.

 

 

The problem is, you deep strike the terminators in and if you fail your charge, people just move away from them, or through some cheap screen at them.

In 30+ games with deathguard, I have managed to charge a unit i wanted them to charge precisely once

[Dallas Drake]

Yeah some armies can just move away, but I do tend to find that turn 3 or 4 my Blightlords get in there and when they do they do pretty decent damage. The caveat of YMMV goes without saying but against most opponents I’m looking at pressing my opponent and forcing them to react.

Melee just needs helping out full stop in 8th, it’d do a lot to help CSM/DG out tbh.