+Blazing Sons+ Rise once more......probably?

[Brother Lunkhead]

Good start on your Homeworld background  You have a nice narrative style that's easy to follow. I do have just a few questions and observations.

 

Are you still going with the Mars-sized world idea and if so have you decided on how to handle the whole mass, gravity, atmosphere challenge?

 

The world was originally colonised during humanities golden age, chosen for it's location away from the galactic trade routes and a lack of extensive natural resources made it a prime location for a set of gene-labs not unlike the Emperors own facilities on Terra. Extreme experimentation on local and imported fauna was undertaken for reasons now lost to time. When humanities fall came, Vvardenfel's labs were overrun and it's experiments escaped into the wild, adding to the chaos. Only desperate holding actions by the worlds last defenders prevented total genocide.

 

I like this. It has just enough information to explain the presence of the predators touched with a little mystery. I think this is done just right. No need for further explanation.

 

Technology has not disappeared completely on Jardenfel, but has been severely stunted as the millennia passed.......Household artisans can still make what would be common items in the wider imperium, yet are considered almost priceless and heirloom items.

 

What kind of technology has survived and how is it supported and protected? What sorts of items are household artisans producing that are now considered "priceless and heirloom items"?

 

Eventually it became tradition for once every decade for a great hunt to be undertaken to cull the worst of the beasts. The tribes and clans would lay down their arms against each other and pursue the beasts that threaten their homes. The youths of the world are expected to defend their homes while the warriors are gone.

 

I like this a lot too. In this case also, a few words say a lot. The predators present enough of an existential threat that all are willing to put aside all grievances (not an easy thing to do) to deal with it in a traditional hunt of epic proportion. Does the hunt have a name? Are the youth trained in arms at home or is there some kind of scholum?

 

Grammatical nitpickery: .....colonised during humanities golden age…….When humanities fall came

 

I think you mean "colonized" and "humanity's"

 

Good stuff Brother. I'm looking forward to reading more.

Edited December 8, 2019 by Brother Lunkhead

[Bjorn Firewalker]

The Blazing Sons call the world of Jardenfel, home.

When humanities fall came, Vvardenfel's labs were overrun

Why the different spellings for the planet's name? If "Vvardenfel" was Jardenfel's original name, this detail should be included in the IA.

So power consolidated with the ruling clans of the cities and few independants who produced food in return for basics such as woven fabrics and stone bricks.

I think metal will be far more valuable as a trade commodity. You can make bricks by shaping mud and then drying it under the sun; you can weave fabrics with wooden looms; but you're not getting useful metals without specialized facilities, including forges capable of melting metal WITHOUT melting themselves in the extreme temperatures necessary to forge metal.

 

Naturally, this allows those with the necessary facilities to have the monopoly of force necessary to a stable government: No one gets a sword (which must be made of metal to be flexible enough to avoid breaking upon a target's armor, yet rigid enough to cut flesh and bone) unless he or she swears to use it in the forge owner's defense.

Conduits and panels were covered with stone brick and timber as their uses faded.

I think it's more likely a primitive culture will mistake conduits and panels' functional appearance to be an art style, and attempt to imitate it. Steampunk may be popular on the Chapter planet.

As it stands, while the world holds a feudal level culture and general technology level, some more modern pieces are not unknown. Household artisans can still make what would be common items in the wider imperium, yet are considered almost priceless and heirloom items.

Eventually it became tradition for once every decade for a great hunt to be undertaken to cull the worst of the beasts. The tribes and clans would lay down their arms against each other and pursue the beasts that threaten their homes. The youths of the world are expected to defend their homes while the warriors are gone.

These are welcome details, giving the Chapter planet "flavor" that distinguishes it from other IAs.

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

On the grammar and spelling differences pointed out by you two, blame children. My children, specifically. I wasn't concentrating as much as I could have for most of the writing of this and a lack of sleep last night due to two small nightmare-spawn allowed me to make a few more errors than I'd like.

 

I chose Vvardenfel but then wanted to change it to Jardenfel just to remove the in your face Morrowind reference. I thought I'd gotten all the replacements but obviously, didn't. I'll fix them up.

 

The grammar, well I should know better but sometimes my brain locks up and I have trouble even spelling words I've been using for decades, so occasionally if I'm writing I'll just write the thing that is closest to what I want and then edit it later. Unfortunately with the aforementioned distractions I've missed more things than I'd like.

 

I also wanted to post something that I'd worked on so I think my over-enthusiasm to get something written down and out the door probably made me a bit hasty as well.

 

That said with 'colonise'

 

Is it colonize or Colonise?

In Ecology, colonize is related to a plant or animal establish itself in (an area). Mussels can colonize even the most inhospitable rock surfaces. Use of Colonise: The original and old spellings of the word are with an s and are used extensively in British English

 

I grew up in the UK a long time ago and I still spell most things with an S without thinking about it. I usually use a spellcheck to change them back but the habit is a really hard one to break.

 

 

Bjorn, your observation about metal being more valuable is pretty spot on. I'll change it over in the next draft. The idea about circuitry and such becoming part of the people's culture and art is a great point and something I should have thought of when writing it. I don't know if I'd go so far as to say steampunk, but perhaps something somewhat close but it could perhaps have a good impact on the difference between original city dwellers and those living in later built or smaller settlements. I'll find some images and attach them of what I see in my mind.

 

Lunkhead, The types of tech would be anything that they can reasonably power without a modern reactor, or has an inexhaustible battery, that they still have the technical knowledge to at least use, if not understand. Therefore some limited kinetic weaponry (think, incredibly low level stc, such as survival gear) such as firearms. Las weapons would be basically rarer than hens teeth if you wanted to look for them. The mainstay of the world are, leading on from Bjorns point, metal working, from armour to bolts for building. These items don't require nano-forges to make, but they aren't in any way feasible for most settlements to build easily. So instead of building their own forges, they rely on trade.

 

 

 

Thank you for your input!

[Ace Debonair]

The homeworld section is good, and worth keeping on hand, but...

 

You're doing the same thing that I do so very often; talking a lot about the world itself and not a lot about how it relates to the Chapter.

 

For example, I originally had about 1,100 words on the precise nature of the homeworld of the White Hawks, all of which talked about the pre-Hawks world. In the IA, I've limited myself to 150 words on that subject. It was honestly painful cutting it down so much, 'cause I'd enjoyed writing it and felt that what I'd created was pretty good.

 

But I wasn't writing "Talhon: an Explorator's Guide", so I had to focus more on the Chapter.

 

Definitely keep everything you've written so far, but when the IA starts to come together I'd look to have an abbreviated version of your current description, and some more details on how the Blazing Sons recruit and interact with the people of Jardenfel.

 

It's a good start all the same, and it's good to see you getting back in the saddle with this whole IA thing.

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

The homeworld section is good, and worth keeping on hand, but...

 

You're doing the same thing that I do so very often; talking a lot about the world itself and not a lot about how it relates to the Chapter.

 

For example, I originally had about 1,100 words on the precise nature of the homeworld of the White Hawks, all of which talked about the pre-Hawks world. In the IA, I've limited myself to 150 words on that subject. It was honestly painful cutting it down so much, 'cause I'd enjoyed writing it and felt that what I'd created was pretty good.

 

But I wasn't writing "Talhon: an Explorator's Guide", so I had to focus more on the Chapter.

 

Definitely keep everything you've written so far, but when the IA starts to come together I'd look to have an abbreviated version of your current description, and some more details on how the Blazing Sons recruit and interact with the people of Jardenfel.

 

It's a good start all the same, and it's good to see you getting back in the saddle with this whole IA thing.

 

Yeah I kind of felt that when I was writing it. It's why I stopped it where I did because I could have gone on, but decided to leave it there and then perhaps change some, add some, take away some but later. Edit it once the other sections come together to keep things concise and flowing.

 

I'll defend it somewhat in that the homeworld and it's people are integral to the chapter, more so than some others, but that needs to be better illustrated later with the inclusion of other sections.

 

Cheers Ace!

[Bjorn Firewalker]

You're doing the same thing that I do so very often; talking a lot about the world itself and not a lot about how it relates to the Chapter.

Good point. Let's brainstorm ideas on how the Chapter planet can affect the culture of Marines recruited from it.

The world was originally colonised during humanities golden age, chosen for it's location away from the galactic trade routes and a lack of extensive natural resources made it a prime location for a set of gene-labs not unlike the Emperors own facilities on Terra. Extreme experimentation on local and imported fauna was undertaken for reasons now lost to time. When humanities fall came, Vvardenfel's labs were overrun and it's experiments escaped into the wild, adding to the chaos.

I presume the Chapter extensively explored the gene-labs to search for and then destroy any and all potentially Chaos-tainted items?

 

Anyways, the labs may be fallen, but the AdMech will definitely want to get its hands on anything recovered from them. This can justify a close relationship with the AdMech, if the Chapter agrees to hand over the technology; or a tense one, if the Chapter denies the AdMech due to understandable concerns the Techpriests might try to create their own monsters.

Only the few surviving cities could build or produce anything of note. So power consolidated with the ruling clans of the cities and few independants who produced food in return for basics...

This can justify feudal governments on the planet, an emphasis on loyalty to one's feudal lords and a sense of obligation in the children's education, and the inhabitants valuing and even romanticizing the chivalry born of feudalism.

Household artisans can still make what would be common items in the wider imperium, yet are considered almost priceless and heirloom items.

This may make the Marines act like artisans, customizing their arms and armor the way Blood Angels and Salamanders do, due to the Chapter planet's inhabitants valuing such skills. When I suggested steampunk may be popular on the Chapter planet, I meant the people may attach useless gears, nonfunctional dials and switches, and etched circuits to things they want to decorate- like Americans using Chinese characters and Viking runes whose meanings they don't understand, borrowing from older cultures to give their contemporary works the illusion of history, and the value that brings. Edited December 9, 2019 by Bjorn Firewalker

[Brother Lunkhead]

 

That said with 'colonise'

 

Is it colonize or Colonise?

In Ecology, colonize is related to a plant or animal establish itself in (an area). Mussels can colonize even the most inhospitable rock surfaces. Use of Colonise: The original and old spellings of the word are with an s and are used extensively in British English

 

I grew up in the UK a long time ago and I still spell most things with an S without thinking about it. I usually use a spellcheck to change them back but the habit is a really hard one to break.

 

 

Quite right...… both spellings are correct..... Took me a while to dig up the British spelling I do wish these dictionaries were more international in scope.

 

 

Bjorn, your observation about metal being more valuable is pretty spot on. I'll change it over in the next draft. The idea about circuitry and such becoming part of the people's culture and art is a great point and something I should have thought of when writing it. I don't know if I'd go so far as to say steampunk, but perhaps something somewhat close but it could perhaps have a good impact on the difference between original city dwellers and those living in later built or smaller settlements. I'll find some images and attach them of what I see in my mind.

 

Lunkhead, The types of tech would be anything that they can reasonably power without a modern reactor, or has an inexhaustible battery, that they still have the technical knowledge to at least use, if not understand. Therefore some limited kinetic weaponry (think, incredibly low level stc, such as survival gear) such as firearms. Las weapons would be basically rarer than hens teeth if you wanted to look for them. The mainstay of the world are, leading on from Bjorns point, metal working, from armour to bolts for building. These items don't require nano-forges to make, but they aren't in any way feasible for most settlements to build easily. So instead of building their own forges, they rely on trade.

 

The problem with advance metals is that even to even to make basic use of them you are going to have to have the ability to mold  them or at the very least cut them. Advance alloys such as adamantium would require a fusion lamp to mold and exotic cutters to..... Even modern 20th century alloys such as titanium would be beyond the ability of household artisans to manipulate.

 

You're going to run into similar problems with surviving gadgets, such as the "inexhaustible battery" or firearms. These items are going to be thousands of years old and without some advance knowledge they will simply break down. 

 

There are several fixes to this. Perhaps there are guilds that have this sort of specialized knowledge, or individuals that are patronized and protected by the nobles. You might even have wandering techno-wizards that sell and/or repair exotic items and metals.* Sorry to harp on this, but it's always been a bit of a pet peeve with me when it comes to fantasy/sci fi scenarios involving primitive people discovering ancient technology. The typical scenario is usually, desperate and oppressed primitive people discover cache of ancient advanced tech that will save the day. They flip a switch and everything works. In reality (or even stretched reality) the most likely scenario is they flip a switch and everything turns to dust... or blows up in their faces I know you're only talking about something a lot more simple, but even that's going to require some advanced knowledge to repair, maintain, or duplicate. Even something simple like 40K Tupperware isn't going to last forever.

 

Ok, I'll stop running off now...… I do think the fix is simple though

 

Just one more thing...… mass, gravity, atmosphere..... you know 

 

*Just so you know.... if you want to use any of these lame ideas of mine, I'm going to be using them myself in the background story of one of my Praetor chapters. But, as they were all stolen from the minds of those far more talented than me, it's only fair that I share them freely

 

P.S.:

 

Bjorn Firewalker

Posted Today, 04:42 AM

 

…….I meant the people may attach useless gears, nonfunctional dials and switches, and etched circuits to things they want to decorate- like Americans using Chinese characters and Viking runes whose meanings they they don't understand, borrowing from older cultures to give their contemporary works the illusion of history, and the value that brings.

 

Brother, there's a lotta things we Americans do that we don't understand  

Edited December 9, 2019 by Brother Lunkhead

[Bjorn Firewalker]

The problem with advance metals is that even to even to make basic use of them you are going to have to have the ability to mold them or at the very least cut them. Advance alloys such as adamantium would require a fusion lamp to mold and exotic cutters to..... Even modern 20th century alloys such as titanium would be beyond the ability of household artisans to manipulate.

 

You're going to run into similar problems with surviving gadgets, such as the "inexhaustible battery" or firearms. These items are going to be thousands of years old and without some advance knowledge they will simply break down.

Good point. I'm glad SOMEONE is putting some thought into worldbuilding. (Glares at Games Workshop. Seriously, the company's poor execution keeps turning AWESOME ideas into GODAWFUL ones.)

There are several fixes to this. Perhaps there are guilds that have this sort of specialized knowledge, or individuals that are patronized and protected by the nobles. You might even have wandering techno-wizards that sell and/or repair exotic items and metals.

Where do these techno-wizards come from- descendants of the researchers whose experiments transformed the planet into a death world (meaning the general public HATES them), or slaves and servants who retained the knowledge to maintain the technology of the researchers who were their masters (meaning the hatred is purely optional, as is the general public's pity)? Where do they get the necessary training to become techno-wizards? How do they keep up their numbers- demanding a tithe of infants as payment for their services, kidnapping promising youths, recruiting promising youths, cloning themselves and then training the clones to be their apprentices and eventual replacements, straight from academies on Holy Mars, something else? How are the techno-wizards' relationship with AdMech Techpriests (assuming they're not Techpriests themselves, ordained into the Martian Faith)?

 

 

I meant the people may attach useless gears, nonfunctional dials and switches, and etched circuits to things they want to decorate- like Americans using Chinese characters and Viking runes whose meanings they they don't understand, borrowing from older cultures to give their contemporary works the illusion of history, and the value that brings.

Brother, there's a lotta things we Americans do that we don't understand

To potentially disastrous consequences. I knew a soldier who had the Chinese characters for "lie down drunk" tattooed on his shoulder, not knowing they were part of an anti-war poem (the poet said it was better to lie down drunk because you were drinking on the eve of battle, than to die fighting). My father told jokes about a woman who had the Chinese characters for "Low prices, great value!" embroidered on the seat of her pants, unknowingly declaring herself a joygirl.

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

 

The problem with advance metals is that even to even to make basic use of them you are going to have to have the ability to mold  them or at the very least cut them. Advance alloys such as adamantium would require a fusion lamp to mold and exotic cutters to..... Even modern 20th century alloys such as titanium would be beyond the ability of household artisans to manipulate.

 

 

Ok while this is fair, relatively speaking for the purposes of the world on it's own terms, forging steel isn't out of their control and for their own purposes that's all they'd need to do. As technology fails and knowledge is lost over time, less and less complex materials would be used in constructing anything new. This leads to those rare items becoming heirlooms and signs of status. While they can and are still used in desperate times, they're not what the cities can create.

 

They're not necessarily fighting off xenos threats by the dozen, their main concerns are survival. This would be a good way to introduce the Sons to the world, as they are being preyed upon by an enemy they can't compete with. A catapult or even low tech canon with frag munitions would take down a Dark Eldar's plastic-fantastic transport, but they aren't really built up to fight a war on a planetary scale.

 

Guilds make sense, it'd be a parallel version of the Adeptus Mechanicus in a way, and I think that having them become ordained or subsumed into the AdMech as a whole would be a great piece of fluff. It'd also make for a good negotiation point. The AdMech gain the blessing of the Sons and the people of the homeworld to lay claim to the gene-labs, and in return their guild artisans are trained and initiated into the Cult Mechanicus in order to maintain and repair the tech vital to the survival of the world, not just for the people, but for the defense of a Chapter Homeworld.

 

Now, as for the tech of the homeworld, I think I will post a couple  of links to images in my gallery, I've forgotten all my BBCode and can't remember if there's a way to make these into thumbnails on the page. If anyone can shoot me a reminder I'd be appreciative.

 

Chapter Serf concept 1 

 

Homeworld snapshot 1

 

Homeworld snapshot 2

 

Regressive tech and culture concept warrior (historical).

 

Ok, so the first one is kind of how I see the warriors of the world beside the chapter going to war, except without some of the Judaeo-Christian influences.

 

The next two are how I kind of see the world in my head, except mix that with the fourth image on the bottom and you get a more consistent technology level as a whole. I simply picked the homeworld shots for a general image of having your feudal culture mixed with some modern implements. 

 

In regards to the serfs before anyone picks me up on it, it's a holdover from every concept of the chapter I've ever written. The Blazing Sons like to detach themselves and fight everywhere at once, choosing for themselves when to return home to rest and resupply. The chapters serfs I've always seen as failed aspirants given the choice to serve the chapter in another capacity. As such they crew and captain their ships and fight alongside them when they are deployed. 

 

Now I know well enough that it's kind of risky to have men loyal to a chapter alone and under arms in the modern Imperium after the separation of powers post Heresy, however, I think this is as good a time as any to get away with it at least, more in a more brazen fashion than before. It's something that stems from and entwines with their absolute adoption and assimilation of their homeworld and it's people.

 

Though I'm still unsure about geneseed and founding date to be honest. I've always been a bit all over the place with foundings, and the personality of the chapter tends not to match anyone except Salamanders or Ultramarines and while I like the Sallies and the smurfs are better now than they have been in a while, I'm not sure really what to go with, or if any other is more suitable. I think I've got the problem of thinking about it so much now that I've bricked my brain.

 

I'm currently working the Organisation, Combat Doctrine in my head before putting pen to paper, and I'm trying to think of a suitable Chapter Fortress and how it is placed and appears on the world, but that's a really small issue, just one that's gotten caught in my head as I like big old fortresses in 40k, so the process appeals to me.

 

If anyone has any input on any of these points, or anything I've rebutted please jump right in. I like talking things out while I've got things mulling about in my head, it helps me think.

 

Thanks again.

[Bjorn Firewalker]

Guilds make sense, it'd be a parallel version of the Adeptus Mechanicus in a way, and I think that having them become ordained or subsumed into the AdMech as a whole would be a great piece of fluff. It'd also make for a good negotiation point. The AdMech gain the blessing of the Sons and the people of the homeworld to lay claim to the gene-labs, and in return their guild artisans are trained and initiated into the Cult Mechanicus in order to maintain and repair the tech vital to the survival of the world, not just for the people, but for the defense of a Chapter Homeworld.

Good idea!

Though I'm still unsure about geneseed and founding date to be honest. I've always been a bit all over the place with foundings, and the personality of the chapter tends not to match anyone except Salamanders or Ultramarines and while I like the Sallies and the smurfs are better now than they have been in a while, I'm not sure really what to go with, or if any other is more suitable.

To give the Chapter a history- one in which the Marines fought against the Dark Eldar/Drukhari- it should be founded BEFORE the Ultima Founding.

 

Salamander gene-seed tends to darken a Marine's skin, which will severely limit your options on how the Marines may look. If you can accept these limitations- say the Marines convince the Chapter planet's inhabitants their darkened skin is the "Mark of the Blazing Sun" or other blessing, and not proof the Marines are of Daemonic descent or other superstitious nonsense- then go ahead.

I'm trying to think of a suitable Chapter Fortress and how it is placed and appears on the world, but that's a really small issue, just one that's gotten caught in my head as I like big old fortresses in 40k, so the process appeals to me.

Taking inspiration from Bloodborne- specifically, Cainhurst Castle- how about the first gene-lab the Marines explored when they arrived upon their future Chapter planet, and then cleansed of the monstrosities within? The monsters' stuffed and mounted heads line each and every wall, as do statues raised in honor of Marines who were martyred in the process of cleansing the gene-labs.

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

 

Guilds make sense, it'd be a parallel version of the Adeptus Mechanicus in a way, and I think that having them become ordained or subsumed into the AdMech as a whole would be a great piece of fluff. It'd also make for a good negotiation point. The AdMech gain the blessing of the Sons and the people of the homeworld to lay claim to the gene-labs, and in return their guild artisans are trained and initiated into the Cult Mechanicus in order to maintain and repair the tech vital to the survival of the world, not just for the people, but for the defense of a Chapter Homeworld.

Good idea!

Though I'm still unsure about geneseed and founding date to be honest. I've always been a bit all over the place with foundings, and the personality of the chapter tends not to match anyone except Salamanders or Ultramarines and while I like the Sallies and the smurfs are better now than they have been in a while, I'm not sure really what to go with, or if any other is more suitable.

To give the Chapter a history- one in which the Marines fought against the Dark Eldar/Drukhari- it should be founded BEFORE the Ultima Founding.

 

Salamander gene-seed tends to darken a Marine's skin, which will severely limit your options on how the Marines may look. If you can accept these limitations- say the Marines convince the Chapter planet's inhabitants their darkened skin is the "Mark of the Blazing Sun" or other blessing, and not proof the Marines are of Daemonic descent or other superstitious nonsense- then go ahead.

I'm trying to think of a suitable Chapter Fortress and how it is placed and appears on the world, but that's a really small issue, just one that's gotten caught in my head as I like big old fortresses in 40k, so the process appeals to me.

Taking inspiration from Bloodborne- specifically, Cainhurst Castle- how about the first gene-lab the Marines explored when they arrived upon their future Chapter planet, and then cleansed of the monstrosities within? The monsters' stuffed and mounted heads line each and every wall, as do statues raised in honor of Marines who were martyred in the process of cleansing the gene-labs.

 

 

Regarding Geneseed.

 

I'm not sure. I've never envisioned them to be dark skinned, especially not the coal black kind that the salamanders have. I actually just thought Imperial Fist stock due to their very culturally relevant origins. However, I'm not a massive fan of the Fists, even though I quite appreciate the Crimson Fists. Perhaps a Crimson Fists geneseed tithe and training cadre? They are the 'warm and fuzzy' fists as it is, so their first officers and instructors are those who inherently value human life more than their parent chapter could perhaps tip the balance. I'll think on it.

 

On the Keep, the idea of having the gene-labs become the basis or substructure for the chapter is a really good one. I'll have a think on the actual look of the thing, but I'll take a look at the castle you mentioned above. That was a good thought though, thanks.

[Brother Cambrius]

On the geneseed front, it can very easily be displayed they carry the gene-line of one Primarch, but were trained by a completely different cadre of Astartes from another Primarch's origins.

 

Now the only reason why the Salamanders' skin is coal black with red eyes is down to the radiation levels Nocturne gives off that affects the geneseed directly. Unless the planet of the Blazing Sons is giving off similar levels of radiation, it may not be as severe, but certainly would send their melanoma(sp?) crazy. There's only one canon disputed sons of the Salamanders to my current knowledge (the Storm Giants), but there's nothing stopping Salamanders geneseed being used once as an experiment by the High Lords in this particular founding.

 

Regarding the images, what you wanna do is right click on the image in your Gallery, select the appropriate size (medium's my typical go to) and then click the little picture image in the toolbar for posting and add in the link to insert it. The old BBCode methods of:

[img=image link here]

still works too. :tu: If you are worried there's too many images, you can wrap them up in a Spoiler tag too (which you can get from the "Special BBCode" option third from top left of the tool bar next to the Font selection.

 

Now before we err a little too off topic on cultural appropriation gone hilariously wrong, something that caught my eye that could be fun to describe and possibly model/paint. With the circuitry thing possibly being ingrained into the Planet and thus the Chapter's culture, circuit styled painting and markings on helmets and other parts of armour, plus on banners etc or painted on as tribal tattoos could be a fun way to display honour markings or rank and veterancy. Techmarines could have them all over their armour and bodies beneath potentially the higher in rank they go up to Master of the Forge?

 

Cambrius

[Bjorn Firewalker]

Now before we err a little too off topic on cultural appropriation gone hilariously wrong, something that caught my eye that could be fun to describe and possibly model/paint. With the circuitry thing possibly being ingrained into the Planet and thus the Chapter's culture, circuit styled painting and markings on helmets and other parts of armour, plus on banners etc or painted on as tribal tattoos could be a fun way to display honour markings or rank and veterancy. Techmarines could have them all over their armour and bodies beneath potentially the higher in rank they go up to Master of the Forge?

Good ideas!

[Brother Lunkhead]

Lots of good idea spinning and consolidating going on ...... I think I'll jump in.

 

If you're still mulling over gene-seed my vote goes to the Salamanders. I know you didn't see your Blazing Sons as dark complexioned but think on it. It just might give you a good  painting challenge, and add some much needed diversity in the 40k model-verse. It could add an interesting twist to your chapter history as they attempt to bond with the locals. The Salamander culture is in synch with your idea of having a close relationship with planetary population. In your founding background your initial training cadre could be a mix of Salamanders and Crimson Fists to give a good blend to your Marines.

 

As to any problems technical or otherwise one might perceive with the Salamanders, Brother Cambrius makes good points:

 

 

On the geneseed front, it can very easily be displayed they carry the gene-line of one Primarch, but were trained by a completely different cadre of Astartes from another Primarch's origins.

 

Now the only reason why the Salamanders' skin is coal black with red eyes is down to the radiation levels Nocturne gives off that affects the geneseed directly. Unless the planet of the Blazing Sons is giving off similar levels of radiation, it may not be as severe, but certainly would send their melanoma(sp?)  (I think you mean "melanin" (skin/hair pigment) not "melanoma" (skin cancer) crazy. There's only one canon disputed sons of the Salamanders to my current knowledge (the Storm Giants), but there's nothing stopping Salamanders geneseed being used once as an experiment by the High Lords in this particular founding.

 

 

Grey Hunter Ydalir, on 09 Dec 2019 - 8:56 PM, said:http://bolterandchainsword.com//public/style_images/carbon_red/snapback.png

Guilds make sense, it'd be a parallel version of the Adeptus Mechanicus in a way, and I think that having them become ordained or subsumed into the AdMech as a whole would be a great piece of fluff. It'd also make for a good negotiation point. The AdMech gain the blessing of the Sons and the people of the homeworld to lay claim to the gene-labs, and in return their guild artisans are trained and initiated into the Cult Mechanicus in order to maintain and repair the tech vital to the survival of the world, not just for the people, but for the defense of a Chapter Homeworld.

 

I concur..... good idea. Guilds would solve a lot of problems in different areas and fit in nicely with a medievalish techno-culture.

 

 

Chapter Serf concept 1 

 

Homeworld snapshot 1

 

Homeworld snapshot 2

 

Regressive tech and culture concept warrior (historical).

 

Those look good Brother Grey ....... as does this from Brother Bjorn:

 

Taking inspiration from Bloodborne- specifically, Cainhurst Castle- how about the first gene-lab the Marines explored when they arrived upon their future Chapter planet, and then cleansed of the monstrosities within? The monsters' stuffed and mounted heads line each and every wall, as do statues raised in honor of Marines who were martyred in the process of cleansing the gene-labs.

 

That's all I have for now...…. bye, bye 

[Ace Debonair]

I'm going to go on one of my little rants here. Please forgive me.

 

I'll start with the crux of the matter: Geneseed is irrelevant.

 

Ultimately, unless you have a specific goal in mind that requires a particular lineage to achieve, it doesn't matter which Legion your Chapter descends from. Just pick your favourite, or if you honestly can't decide, go for Ultramarines. Doing so doesn't change anything.

 

As someone who has grown up with brothers, I can tell you from observation and learned experience that a parent's children don't all turn out the same.

 

If your Chapter doesn't fit the mould - that's fine. I don't even think this requires justification 90% of the time. Your Chapter isn't in constant contact with their progenitors, differences in methods, beliefs, preferences and so on will occur over the centuries.

 

It's not only possible, but plausible to have Imperial Fists sucessors who focus on the defence of the commonfolk of the Imperium. It's acceptable to have White Scars successors who sit back and play the long-ranged game. Nowhere does it say you can't have Salamanders successors who are as culturally sophisticated and artistic as the Blood Angels, or Ultramarines descendants who are borderline barbarians.

 

With the addendum: Geneseed is as relevant as you make it. The more you make a big deal out of geneseed, the bigger deal it becomes. Obviously the Chapters with built in heritage (e.g. the Raven Guard's poor induction rate, the Blood Angels' curses) come with a certain amount of character-defining traits. But, for example, if it's important to your Chapter that they believe being a son of Dorn elevates you above even other Space Marines, then the Chapter can indulge in stringent purity tests on a regular basis to make sure they uphold the very core of Dornish honour.

 

I can't see the Blazing Sons, as you've presented them so far, as being particularly fussy about their geneseed or heritage.

 

I therefore suggest it's actually a trifling issue masquerading as an important one. Just pick your favourite and we'll work something out from there.

Edited December 10, 2019 by Ace Debonair

[Brother Lunkhead]

I'm going to go on one of my little rants here. Please forgive me.

 

I'll start with the crux of the matter: Geneseed is irrelevant.

 

Ultimately, unless you have a specific goal in mind that requires a particular lineage to achieve, it doesn't matter which Legion your Chapter descends from. Just pick your favourite, or if you honestly can't decide, go for Ultramarines. Doing so doesn't change anything.

 

As someone who has grown up with brothers, I can tell you from observation and learned experience that a parent's children don't all turn out the same.

 

If your Chapter doesn't fit the mould - that's fine. I don't even think this requires justification 90% of the time. Your Chapter isn't in constant contact with their progenitors, differences in methods, beliefs, preferences and so on will occur over the centuries.

 

It's not only possible, but plausible to have Imperial Fists sucessors who focus on the defence of the commonfolk of the Imperium. It's acceptable to have White Scars successors who sit back and play the long-ranged game. Nowhere does it say you can't have Salamanders successors who are as culturally sophisticated and artistic as the Blood Angels, or Ultramarines descendants who are borderline barbarians.

 

With the addendum: Geneseed is as relevant as you make it. The more you make a big deal out of geneseed, the bigger deal it becomes. Obviously the Chapters with built in heritage (e.g. the Raven Guard's poor induction rate, the Blood Angels' curses) come with a certain amount of character-defining traits. But, for example, if it's important to your Chapter that they believe being a son of Dorn elevates you above even other Space Marines, then the Chapter can indulge in stringent purity tests on a regular basis to make sure they uphold the very core of Dornish honour.

 

I can't see the Blazing Sons, as you've presented them so far, as being particularly fussy about their geneseed or heritage.

 

I therefore suggest it's actually a trifling issue masquerading as an important one. Just pick your favourite and we'll work something out from there.

 

Brother Grey was just mulling over gene-seeds and we are just presenting some options as we are doing with everything else here

Edited December 10, 2019 by Brother Lunkhead

[Bjorn Firewalker]

Gene-seed has great potential impact on a Chapter, via the sense of brotherhood among those descended from the same Primarch, which leads to these Chapters offering aid to one another, even in feuds against descendants of different Primarchs. The Dark Angels, Ultramarines, Imperial Fists, Blood Angels, and Iron Hands descendants will come to their parent Chapters' aid, without hesitation.

 

What kind of allies do you want the Blazing Sons to have? For whom will they commit everything- risk everything- to aid, and who is willing to do the same for them? Or are the Blazing Sons aloof, feeling a Chapter must have the strength to stand on its own, making the Marines refuse to offer or accept others' aid?

[Brother Lunkhead]

Brother Bjorn makes a fair point concerning the sense of loyalty and brotherhood that gene-seed implies. Of course other factors also influence and impact loyalty and brotherhood as well. 

 

I'm feeling an ever so slight increase in temperature here, so.....

 

=][= Let's all take a deep breath and keep it friendly =][=

 

Back to you Brother Grey. What's your take on this gene-seed thang.... It's your chapter, after all

[Ace Debonair]

I hadn't meant to come across as hostile.

Many apologies if I did so!

 

I should have added a "TL;DR: Any geneseed can work, don't be too worried about picking the 'right' one. "  

[Brother Lunkhead]

No need to apologize Brother Ace I was just perceiving a little "general tension" I wasn't specifically aiming at you.

 

Soooo.... what about that gene-seed thang Brother Grey? No pressure on choice. I'm more interested in how it correlates to the character of your chapter (if at all).

Edited December 10, 2019 by Brother Lunkhead

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

I don't think I've ever taken anything you've ever said as hostile Ace, and I appreciate where he was coming from.

 

Maybe you got a little heated there brother as the discussion was going way down the rabbit hole. I agree. I'll think on geneseed some more and the input from everyone has been actually, really helpful, it's given me a lot of food for thought.

 

For me geneseed and it's influence depends entirely on the Author. It's a deus-ex machina to drive something for your chapter. I've never been a big believer that it should dictate anything, more that it should influence the chapter however you want it to.

 

 

What kind of allies do you want the Blazing Sons to have? For whom will they commit everything- risk everything- to aid, and who is willing to do the same for them? Or are the Blazing Sons aloof, feeling a Chapter must have the strength to stand on its own, making the Marines refuse to offer or accept others' aid?

 

Now this is one of the crucial points of the chapter. Given how they view and judge others, it's one of the things I've thought of in both ways. They are always willing to aid the people of the Imperium, depending on if you're a total prat or not admittedly, but in terms of other organizations it'd be on a case-by-case basis. They're always willing to leap into the fire, but you'd best be damn sure you fight with them for the cause you've grabbed them for.

 

For an example, let's the Blazing Sons are Dark Angels successors and for argument's sake we'll say they aren't part of the Unforgiven and inner circle. Now let's say an Unforgiven chapter requests aid to quell a genestealer uprising. The Blazing Sons arrive and begin to assist them. Together they drive back the xenos but, suddenly the Unforgiven withdraw some or all of their forces and leave the Blazing Sons to take the brunt of the battle, leading to vastly increased casualties for the Imperials and a severe extension to the time needed to drive the xenos out.

 

The Sons would be unwilling to aid the Unforgiven in question again on their own merit. They may possibly even be wary of the Dark Angels and their successors in general as they'd be viewed through the same lense even though they themselves were of the same stock. However, they'd be willing to help those who hadn't betrayed them, yet.

 

In a lot of ways I'm writing straight from my head, honestly it's as if a lot of my work is a living document inside my head. These questions help me write things out, but I need to come back and make it more concise later. Forgive me if I ramble a bit.

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

No need to apologize Brother Ace I was just perceiving a little "general tension" I wasn't specifically aiming at you.

 

Soooo.... what about that gene-seed thang Brother Grey? No pressure on choice. I'm more interested in how it correlates to the character of your chapter (if at all).

 

So, given the basic character of the chapter so far, and how I imagine them, I'd honestly go with Imperial Fists. This chapter draws on Saxon heritage, which is in essence an earlier version of the cultures the Imperial Fists and Black Templars draw on. I'd have the Crimson Fists as an officer cadre early on, post Rynns World, following Pedro Kantor's example to his worlds people.

 

In an earlier work I had them as Iron Hands successors who broke faith with their training cadre to defend the people of this world, but I don't think it adds anything and distracts from the main focus of the work, the Sons. As such, a suitable geneseed with a fitting influence to tip their behavior to get them to where I want them to be with the Homeworld. Instead of it being the deus ex machina as I mentioned earlier, I'm going to keep it simple. This chapter makes me want to write reams and reams of pages worth of data on literally everything, the homeworld I could write an entire history on as it is, so I'm reminding myself to stay focused.

 

When I get home tonight or tomorrow night I will have to go through the thread and work on an overall update, which is unfortunately the least favorite of the things you need to do to work on things from multiple locations. I don't have a single living-document I can alter. Ah well.

 

It is the way.

[Brother Lunkhead]

Looks like a good choice with the Imperial Fists gene-seed. The background makes sense with the heritage and culture you are going for  Iron Hand would have been interesting, but with the backstory you had in mind for them it definitely would have been more complicated.

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

I just updated the first post with the homeworld section above, as well as a new recruitment section I somewhat hastily threw together.

 

It felt a bit clunky to write, I think I need to reorder or script it out better. Let me know what you think of the concept though.

[Bjorn Firewalker]

The details on the Chapter's recruitment practices are acceptable, as are those on its fortress-monastery. I notice you've yet to revise details on Jardenfel's culture, based on ideas exchanged with other board members.

 

Nitpicking:

The world was originally colonized during humanities golden age,

When humanities fall came,

"Humanity's" should replace "humanities" in these sentences

With the fall came silence.

I think "fall" should be capitalized, to identify it as a specific event the planet's inhabitants remember well.