Kill Team Cassius - a decent buy for someone new to DW?

[Zephaniah Adriyen]

Kill Team Cassius looks like a good buy for someone who wants a decent amount of Deathwatch but not a full army, especially if I get an Ordo Xenos Inquisitor to run with them for a solid ~500 points to tack onto existing lists, running Cassius as a basic Chaplain, running Jensus as a Librarian and running everyone else as a single Veteran squad. Makes a Patrol. Thoughts?

 

Edit: While we're at it, what's that servo-skull model for?

Edited November 27, 2019 by Zephaniah Adriyen

[GrinNfool]

So the squad set up such as it is isn't particularly good IMO.  It lacks any real focus when fielded as its own kill team.  Their loadout wants to be close range but its pretty disjointed,  Normal vets survival is pretty low if you aren't including 2-3 guys holding storm shields too.  Top that all off with only getting 8 SIA shots@ 12" 2 of which are either hitting on 4s or you aren't firing the melta of the combi melta.  The models are cool and I like them, but would generally say splitting them up in different squads is your best bet.

 

Basically if you just want some unique looking dudes that you can make a mixed kill team on the cheap, you can make it work but would wager most games they don't accomplish much for you, though every so often they will, just because 2 meltas and a frag cannon.

 

If your goal is for the kill team for your inquisitor to consistently perform you might prefer starting with a vet kill team for $35 though in the long run they will cost more.

 

You could always split the difference get cassius +1 kill team vet box, so you still get a term and 2 ASM, could also use the bits in the kill team box to customize the VVs and space wolf vet's loadouts into something a little better for you, while managing to get 2 storm shields into the mix.

Edited November 27, 2019 by GrinNfool

[Imren]

As far as I understand, KT Cassius is monopose, the regular KT kit is not.

 

So I'd say it depends on whether your fine with the poses and load outs of KT Cassius models. 40k Rules wise DW armies have a unique capacity to customize their wargear, if you buy and paint these models you might want to use them for different army lists, so DW models are very suitable for magnetisation.

 

Another issue. KT Cassius is made for it own game rule set, therefore you get a biker, jump pack models and a terminator. You will probably struggle to make a viable list for 40k with that set of fixed models.

 

I'd recommend a new player the start collecting box instead. IT gives you ten regular infantry models that are customizable, watch captain Artemis and a dreadnought for relatively low price for what you get compared to the Cassius kit.

[NKirkham24]

To be honest, seeing the Kill Team Cassius box was what made me start collecting Deathwatch. 

 

I just think the mixed squads look so cool, and the extra detail on the guys compared to the multiple part kits really stood out. 

 

As a starter game wise, it probably isn't ideally for the reasons pointed out by Imren, but from the painting perspective it's a great box to buy.

 

If you're getting into Deathwatch, this box along with a Start Collecting box would enable you to make a battalion detachment too. Although it wouldn't be optimised, you'd have plenty of modelling options and flexibility, it'd be a pretty good place to start.

[Irbis]

It is 'good' in the sense it costs about as much as Chaplain and Librarian from GW would, rest is free. Even more of a bargain if you use one of jump pack models as a Captain. Mind that most models in it has illegal or suboptimal loadout, and they could greatly benefit from a bit of gear swap. So, yeah, I agree, I'd mix in one Kill Team or use bits from your bit box to fix that particular issue.

[Zephaniah Adriyen]

It is 'good' in the sense it costs about as much as Chaplain and Librarian from GW would, rest is free. Even more of a bargain if you use one of jump pack models as a Captain. Mind that most models in it has illegal or suboptimal loadout, and they could greatly benefit from a bit of gear swap. So, yeah, I agree, I'd mix in one Kill Team or use bits from your bit box to fix that particular issue.

I've checked, nothing's illegal - suboptimal, maybe, but not illegal.

[MadEdric]

I really like this box set. You get 11 unique posed models. Now they won't make a coherent killteam, but all can find a place if you place them in other teams. I've done some minor swaps on a couple of them. The Blood Angel guy I removed his flamer pistol and gave him a storm shield, the Dark angel removed the plasma pistol and gave him a bolter. The Space Wolf got a helmeted head. Cassius is going to my Ultramarines as this model is far superior to the metal one. Librarian also got a bolter instead of a pistol.

[Irbis]

 

It is 'good' in the sense it costs about as much as Chaplain and Librarian from GW would, rest is free. Even more of a bargain if you use one of jump pack models as a Captain. Mind that most models in it has illegal or suboptimal loadout, and they could greatly benefit from a bit of gear swap. So, yeah, I agree, I'd mix in one Kill Team or use bits from your bit box to fix that particular issue.

I've checked, nothing's illegal - suboptimal, maybe, but not illegal.

 

Wolfwolf has CCW, chainsword, and bolter. He was actually illegal from the day zero, though today you could argue that with implied CCWs knife is just a decoration, I suppose. Fist has bolt pistol, CCW and frag cannon, you can't take any other weapons with heavy gun option. Ultramarine skipped all his weapon choices besides his bolter, while not strictly illegal per se, show me a player who will select 'none' on multiple weapon tables despite lots of options being free. White Scar has storm shield despite it being illegal for bikers. Etc, etc, nearly every single model in this set could use work when it comes to strict WYSIWYG, even though most people won't mind playing them as is.

[Zephaniah Adriyen]

 

 

It is 'good' in the sense it costs about as much as Chaplain and Librarian from GW would, rest is free. Even more of a bargain if you use one of jump pack models as a Captain. Mind that most models in it has illegal or suboptimal loadout, and they could greatly benefit from a bit of gear swap. So, yeah, I agree, I'd mix in one Kill Team or use bits from your bit box to fix that particular issue.

I've checked, nothing's illegal - suboptimal, maybe, but not illegal.

 

Wolfwolf has CCW, chainsword, and bolter. He was actually illegal from the day zero, though today you could argue that with implied CCWs knife is just a decoration, I suppose. Fist has bolt pistol, CCW and frag cannon, you can't take any other weapons with heavy gun option. Ultramarine skipped all his weapon choices besides his bolter, while not strictly illegal per se, show me a player who will select 'none' on multiple weapon tables despite lots of options being free. White Scar has storm shield despite it being illegal for bikers. Etc, etc, nearly every single model in this set could use work when it comes to strict WYSIWYG, even though most people won't mind playing them as is.

 

Implied CCWs are the way to go, IMO.

You mentioned the Smurf being legal-but-stupid.

I find it ironic that the Fist is the only guy in the set with a gun bigger than a pistol and then also a pistol, whereas the Iron Hand and the Smurf don't actually have pistols.

I checked the White Scar, he isn't holding the storm shield, I'd consider it decoration only.

Sally's fine - you can definitely take a meltafist and a heavy flamer together, I checked last night.

The DAngel's fine as well, you can take a plasma pistol and power sword together.

Hand's fine, you can take a combi-melta and nothing else.

Both Vanguards are fine.

Both HQs are fine.

Clearly, not "every single model" in the set needs work - in fact, the Fist is the only one who (assuming implied CCWs) is actually not WYSIWYG, and a bolt pistol is not a big deal.

[Irbis]

I checked the White Scar, he isn't holding the storm shield, I'd consider it decoration only.

 

Or, you know, give it to Ultramarine

 

Sally's fine - you can definitely take a meltafist and a heavy flamer together, I checked last night.

 

Yes, if you want your W2 and 5++ model to cost more than most HQs

 

I actually gave his melta fist to my captain, gave him normal fist, and even then it took till recent points drop to make him playable, IMO.

 

The DAngel's fine as well, you can take a plasma pistol and power sword together.

 

Yup, as long as you don't mind paying a lot more points for rather big drop in range and firepower

 

Hand's fine, you can take a combi-melta and nothing else.

 

Or you can give him Fist illegal CCW and count it as a (free) chainsword to fix both?

 

I said 'nearly' every model, though I'd still give both HQs actual guns, pistols are worth far less than what they used to. Though alas, it might not be a legal option for long...

[Zephaniah Adriyen]

Hey, still legal. I have never been one to run viable lists, just fun ones - and a Deathwatch list with attached Inquisitor, representatives of each First Founding Chapter plus a Blood Raven and a named Chaplain is definitely fun. 500 points of Ordo Xenos to be attached to any other Imperium army I feel like.

[Duke Danse Macabre]

Hey, still legal. I have never been one to run viable lists, just fun ones - and a Deathwatch list with attached Inquisitor, representatives of each First Founding Chapter plus a Blood Raven and a named Chaplain is definitely fun. 500 points of Ordo Xenos to be attached to any other Imperium army I feel like.

That's the best way to look at it.

This set gets allot of hate, reason is it's a poor build to try and make a army out of, it's not multi pose, the load outs are sub optimal and some have options that are either way over costed or wrote off as decorative for wysiwyg.

Lore wise they are also divergent with things like bloodclaws (SW initiates being sent to a elite only chapter for veterans) and wearing old pattern armour covered in chapter iconography when they are meant to be wearing mk8 errant armour (think like grey knights pattern power armour) with only a single shoulder pad to their armour from the parent chapter.

All that aside, they are great looking models and if you just want to try and inject some character into faceless army like ad mech or guard they work great for giving the game a greater sense of immersion and are also a great source for conversion parts, our named captain is not honestly good... He's interesting and can be cool but not good but his body makes a great base for any character build.

 

So I say, if your willing to make the effort and your wanting to forge a narrative more than make the most optimal build, then go for it, it's a good price for what you get.

Edited November 28, 2019 by Duke Danse Macabre

[Irbis]

Hey, still legal. I have never been one to run viable lists, just fun ones - and a Deathwatch list with attached Inquisitor, representatives of each First Founding Chapter plus a Blood Raven and a named Chaplain is definitely fun. 500 points of Ordo Xenos to be attached to any other Imperium army I feel like.

 

I do run fun lists and don't really look at what is considered meta when I build casual army (which is why I have double melta captain in the first place or don't spam shields), but leaving free options off your models and taking stuff that runs counter to the whole faction idea is not fun. Or at least shooting your own foot is not my idea of fun.

 

This set gets allot of hate, reason is it's a poor build to try and make a army out of, it's not multi pose, the load outs are sub optimal and some have options that are either way over costed or wrote off as decorative for wysiwyg.

 

Stating the set would be improved with some bits moved around to other models is not ""hate"". It's saving new player a lot of time and bother, especially when done before any painting.

 

Lore wise they are also divergent with things like bloodclaws (SW initiates being sent to a elite only chapter for veterans) and wearing old pattern armour covered in chapter iconography when they are meant to be wearing mk8 errant armour (think like grey knights pattern power armour) with only a single shoulder pad to their armour from the parent chapter.

 

Uh, no. Just no. DW isn't "meant" to wear Mk VIII, not only old upgrades (and art) had DW in whatever armour they wore before, just with new pad, but that's also why GW sells new upgrade sprue - as an alternative to Mk VIII box. You can make all-VIII force, or you can grab any of the tactical boxes and upgrade and go for their old look. Even in new fluff marine has option of keeping their old gear, especially if it's the only thing compatible with his old weapons.

[Duke Danse Macabre]

I'm simply stating that some are over zealous in their hate, not that the points do not have merit, just taken a little to far some times and seeing more problems than there actually is.

 

In the new lore they are meant to wear mk VIII, granted that breaks with the old lore but it is not the first time GW have changed things and it won't be the last, for now however that's what it says in the codex.

Trust me, it's annoying, I have about 4K of space marines as DW from before they became an army, the important thing is though the set still looks good.

[Kolgrim DeathHowl]

I got KT Cassius mainly for the sculpts and figured if I was going to go for a certain meta force I would just buy and arm them that way. But if you're into the sculpts of them do it some of them are pretty cool looking. I heard after I bought mine the same thing that's been said is that they're not really great as a team together but that doesn't stop you from fielding them out to other units if you plan on playing a bigger army of DW. I'm still learning to play so I can't comment on anything game play related right now I should of asked before hand but then I ended up liking the sculpts of the team so buying it and not really having a use play wise for some is ok with me lol. Got me more practice back to painting, that I really needed :)

[Zephaniah Adriyen]

 

Hey, still legal. I have never been one to run viable lists, just fun ones - and a Deathwatch list with attached Inquisitor, representatives of each First Founding Chapter plus a Blood Raven and a named Chaplain is definitely fun. 500 points of Ordo Xenos to be attached to any other Imperium army I feel like.

 

I do run fun lists and don't really look at what is considered meta when I build casual army (which is why I have double melta captain in the first place or don't spam shields), but leaving free options off your models and taking stuff that runs counter to the whole faction idea is not fun. Or at least shooting your own foot is not my idea of fun.

 

I mean, I can just... glue holsters onto the Iron Hand and the Ultramarine if I want pistols, no problem. Everyone has holsters lying around.