Psychic Awakening: The Ritual of the Damned

[Prot]

Yeah, maybe. I suspect that there will be things that stand out within each Cult of course encouraging us to mix and match Cults. Sure, a few cults might be superior (say, if you were to only pick 1 cult, it might have the best tricks?), but I think for the most part you will see us taking 2-3 dets of Thousand Sons, mhm.

 

People looking to bring a Supreme Command in their soup armies might be in for a treat, or they might see issues where without an entire traditional detachment (Battalion?) they might get underwhelming benefits from the Cults since they typically might only buff themselves....

 

As I mentioned when the article came out, I think that was GW's intent. 

 

People will still bring the ol' Thousand Sons Supreme command detachment, however, they won't get much out of the supplement.

 

It's for this very reason that I -don't- think there should be a limitation on making Thousand Sons take a full army of TS in order to enjoy these rules.... they are inherently very restrictive (almost too much.)

 

The bigger question to me is: Is there enough true content here to make worthwhile? (To skip soup, and go for the TS full army.)

Edited January 15, 2020 by Prot

[Archaeinox]

It's very nice that I can still bring Cosmic Cluck, the Lord of Change of 3++ fun in a patrol detachment and still benefit from these new TS rules.. So it seems. 

I'm happy to retain those models use in 40k and AoS, more bang for the buck, as it were..

 

To answer your last question, I think the stratagems alone could be great...

 

Consider this: Even if you were to just bring 1 battalion in a particular game, you still get access to the a host of new stratagems regardless of what Cult that detachment chooses to be (on top of access to a few Cult-unique things). In such an analysis vacuum, that's already superior to what we have now and can be considered a win for people who are not (or have not been) doing soup. Yes, though, I am nervously awaiting the rest of the stuff in the book with caution as well but again I have been pleased with what I have seen.

Edited January 15, 2020 by Archaeinox

[Sonoftherubric21]

 

Yeah, maybe. I suspect that there will be things that stand out within each Cult of course encouraging us to mix and match Cults. Sure, a few cults might be superior (say, if you were to only pick 1 cult, it might have the best tricks?), but I think for the most part you will see us taking 2-3 dets of Thousand Sons, mhm.

 

People looking to bring a Supreme Command in their soup armies might be in for a treat, or they might see issues where without an entire traditional detachment (Battalion?) they might get underwhelming benefits from the Cults since they typically might only buff themselves....

 

As I mentioned when the article came out, I think that was GW's intent. 

 

People will still bring the ol' Thousand Sons Supreme command detachment, however, they won't get much out of the supplement.

 

It's for this very reason that I -don't- think there should be a limitation on making Thousand Sons take a full army of TS in order to enjoy these rules.... they are inherently very restrictive (almost too much.)

 

The bigger question to me is: Is there enough true content here to make worthwhile? (To skip soup, and go for the TS full army.)

 

 

That is the big question, and I think that will be answered with the Stratagems as well. 

 

If there is more like that Rubricae stratagem they previewed? I think we will be in for a treat. BUT.... I could not agree more on the restrictiveness of the situation. 2-3 detachments, honestly duel-battalion will be an auto-include from now on. funny enough I actually think that the Helm is even MORE of an auto include as we are going to be a VERY cp heavy army wanting additional warlords (assuming we get a strat for it as would be logical) and more relics to take advantage of cult items such as the new "crest" relic. 

 

[Prot]

Yes I very much agree.  

 

Unless I used Chaos Knights (my only ally with Thousand Sons), I always used a dual batt just for the extra Cp of course. A lot of those CP I could 'throw away' on my Spawn, but now it'll be critical I think for the strats.

[Sonoftherubric21]

Yes I very much agree.  

 

Unless I used Chaos Knights (my only ally with Thousand Sons), I always used a dual batt just for the extra Cp of course. A lot of those CP I could 'throw away' on my Spawn, but now it'll be critical I think for the strats.

 

Thought occurred: You think that book CP+ relic may actually see some table use? 

 

I think that there is a chance the Relics may not actually be locked per cult..... The Perfidious Tome does not mention that its part of a cult, or must go on a cult model. 

 

Perhaps like the other factions we are just getting "new relics" period end of statement so that anyone can use them. Or only "some" are locked and we are getting some that are not cult-specific. (note the Crest had a specific note for being Cult of Change. 

Edited January 15, 2020 by Sonoftherubric21

[Archaeinox]

Likely.

[Prot]

 

Yes I very much agree.  

 

Unless I used Chaos Knights (my only ally with Thousand Sons), I always used a dual batt just for the extra Cp of course. A lot of those CP I could 'throw away' on my Spawn, but now it'll be critical I think for the strats.

 

Thought occurred: You think that book CP+ relic may actually see some table use? 

 

I think that there is a chance the Relics may not actually be locked per cult..... The Perfidious Tome does not mention that its part of a cult, or must go on a cult model. 

 

Perhaps like the other factions we are just getting "new relics" period end of statement so that anyone can use them. Or only "some" are locked and we are getting some that are not cult-specific. (note the Crest had a specific note for being Cult of Change. 

 

 

 

I was thinking about that except the deal killer for me is the idea of giving my opponent a CP. I'm so notorious for rolling 1's, one of my main groups calls me 'snake eyes jones'. No idea where the "jones" comes from but you can guess the rest. (I think for a long time that came from my horrid GW Thousand Sons dice).

 

Anyway in weighing the options, I'm looking at PA3's Tzeetch Sword. The idea of removing an invuln is like a mini built in Death Hex. 

[Dolchiate Remembrancer]

Hmmm so 6 squads of rubrics will be necessary. Time to buy some more rubrics!

[Ahzek451]

Well there is still plenty of room for stats that are not linked to a cult. The rubric one isnt cult specific. And I think GW knows that a lot of our codex strats are balls compared to newer books.

[Skerr]

On 1ksons reddit some folks were pretty keen on the new tomb as more than a few folks said their opponents usually blow their CP the first 2 rounds or even during deployment.

 

I did mention earlier that I thought GW got away from rules that might benefit the enemy because its fluffy.

Like how the Helbrute was tweaked, though marines can still eff themselves up with a failed overcharge I suppose. (Which is why we don't see it often.) Maybe a better punishment would be to lose a cp instead of provide one to the enemy and if you dont have any no harm no foul, if a punishment is indeed warranted (Thinking Lovecraft and "Secrets Man Was Not Meant To Know")

 

Still looking for a Soulburn strat or spell. We also have spring FAQ (Chapter Approved) in a few months.

 

After ritual is released and we get a full scope with some XP we can hit GW up for feedback.

Edited January 15, 2020 by Skerr

[Drudge Dreadnought]

There's still a cap on how many CP you can generate per turn, right? If your opponent is already generating CP from their own relics, would you giving them one not matter because of the cap?

[Archaeinox]

There's still a cap on how many CP you can generate per turn, right? If your opponent is already generating CP from their own relics, would you giving them one not matter because of the cap?

 

battle round, mhm, if you roll a 1 for the book and give them one at the beginning of the battle round they go that turn and then the bottom of the turn unable to receive more so this is just my opinion but if they have any refund mechanic that makes it kaput. Sure, you contributed to giving them one, but Ultramarines warlord trait, enemy TS players, guard, they wouldnt be able to get one as a result of their own abilties...

Edited January 15, 2020 by Archaeinox

[Prot]

I’m not disagreeing with any of that wisdom, however I’m probably only gaining 2 maybe 3 CP a game anyway. The actual idea of regaining CP through a relic, which costs an additional CP (Because I think Crystal is just that important against a host of the stuff we’re seeing now) that it might not be worth it period.

 

The thing is you are going to be giving a CP to those armies that aren’t even farming them. With the Hellm, you can almost guarantee against Tau, Space Marines, Astra, AdMech, Orks, and Chaos you are going to gain a CP in your first and second turn. 

 

Isn’t that pretty much the same odds as the book without the risk of giving to your opponent (who may not even be farming)?

 

Personally (as mentioned above) I thought we would have a much better bonus if the downside is giving your opponent something.

 

Rubrics have me salivating. I known we have some people who really like how they work right now, but I feel like we’ve slipped below the massive damage jump the game has taken in the past 90 days or so. 

 

The lack of damage is one of the things that bugged me about this reveal, but survivability is almost as good. Though -1 to hit doesn’t cut it anymore. 

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

I’m not disagreeing with any of that wisdom, however I’m probably only gaining 2 maybe 3 CP a game anyway. The actual idea of regaining CP through a relic, which costs an additional CP (Because I think Crystal is just that important against a host of the stuff we’re seeing now) that it might not be worth it period.

 

The thing is you are going to be giving a CP to those armies that aren’t even farming them. With the Hellm, you can almost guarantee against Tau, Space Marines, Astra, AdMech, Orks, and Chaos you are going to gain a CP in your first and second turn. 

 

Isn’t that pretty much the same odds as the book without the risk of giving to your opponent (who may not even be farming)?

 

Personally (as mentioned above) I thought we would have a much better bonus if the downside is giving your opponent something.

 

Rubrics have me salivating. I known we have some people who really like how they work right now, but I feel like we’ve slipped below the massive damage jump the game has taken in the past 90 days or so. 

 

The lack of damage is one of the things that bugged me about this reveal, but survivability is almost as good. Though -1 to hit doesn’t cut it anymore. 

The increase in utility for Warpflamers is interesting, too, based on what we're seeing for Rubrics. It appears we can also play hit and run games when charging/being charged. I'm interested in seeing more, that's for sure.

[deTox]

What do you guys think will be the sequencing for the Capricious Crest? I'm really intrigued by it but can't really judge how good it is because of the following

 

By how it's worded the replaced dice could even be rerolled

 

the possible cases seems to be:

 

• Opponent Rolls 5 and 6 -> you replace the 6 with a 1 -> the opponent can use/uses command re-roll on the 1 that you've placed to still cast successfully as technically you replaced a die didn't re-roll it so "can't re-roll a re-roll" doesn't apply (making the relic far less powerful)
• Opponent Rolls 2 and 6 -> you replace the 6 with a 1 -> he opponent can use/uses command re-roll on the 2 potentially translating into a successful cast but can't touch the dice that was replaced(making the relic good but not exceptional as the opponent can react)
• Opponent Rolls 1 and 6 -> the opponent has to decided if to use command re-roll -> after the re-roll you decide if to use the relic ability, meaning that once the relic is used no command re-roll can be used on either of the die (making the relic REALLY good)

 

really curious about this and it definitely already sounds to me as this will need a FaQ

[Archaeinox]

No offense but it seems pretty clear to me, we just don't WANT them to be able to use a CP to change what we "say" was rolled....... So I get the confusion because we want it to be powerful.

 

In other words, I believe that your 1st possible case is how it actually is. 

 

It's kind of like how the Daemonic Possession strat demons have is really just telling the opponent to have a CP reroll on standby lol. In any case, it makes them burn a CP so I'm good with it. I've never used it on anyone effectively because before you can spend the CP and get ahead of yourself to make them 2d3 Perils, they still have the chance to commit to the casting roll or not- same with this relic. There is a point where they say "ok this is what I rolled" even if one of the dice is flipped to show X Y or Z.

 

I suppose that if I feel it is one way and others feel it's not clear, then yes, i guess that means a faq is in order after all haha. My bad

Edited January 16, 2020 by Archaeinox

[Sonoftherubric21]

I am of the opinion that the crest is really intended for US. more-so then affecting our opponent (as a bonus.)

 

One of our biggest issues as a book is that our spells are slightly higher to cast then most. a few 5/s and 6/s sprinkled in, with plentiful 7/s and 8/s. even I believe 2 9/s. 

 

The crest seems tailor made to fix that issue at least partially for the higher strata spells (doombolt comes to mind). Something to keep in mind surely. 

 

Random side note: bet you that we will see "Rehati" themed stratagem for more then one warlord trait. *conjecture!* 

[Skerr]

Wishlisting, hope there is a SOT strat that warp boosts their str to 5. Str 5, AP -3 is an SOT dream for me.

 

Come on leaks or reviews.

[Prot]

The more I think about it the more I realize there is no way they should restrict the codex if we use these "Cults". It was kind of silly of me to hope our limited line up would expand to include stuff like Venomcrawlers (Basically I was hoping the fluff stories would translate into rules). 

 

Also I wonder with some of these mediocre relics we might see a way of getting several relics (Lets say a cult ability). Since it is character-centric, perhaps exalteds get extra WL traits too. 

 

I'm still suspicious we are going to find out about a really good Cult, and everyone will gravitate there.

[Skerr]

I agree it seems the trend is for 1 maybe 2 top notch options and a couple others that may fit specific lists or playstyles.

 

I am going off memory for what previous armies get though I do have the latest nid dex as a seconday army. When the new nid sex came out there were several cool hive rules though around 50 percent would gravitate to 1.

[BoomWolf]

No offense but it seems pretty clear to me, we just don't WANT them to be able to use a CP to change what we "say" was rolled....... So I get the confusion because we want it to be powerful.

 

In other words, I believe that your 1st possible case is how it actually is.

 

It's kind of like how the Daemonic Possession strat demons have is really just telling the opponent to have a CP reroll on standby lol. In any case, it makes them burn a CP so I'm good with it. I've never used it on anyone effectively because before you can spend the CP and get ahead of yourself to make them 2d3 Perils, they still have the chance to commit to the casting roll or not- same with this relic. There is a point where they say "ok this is what I rolled" even if one of the dice is flipped to show X Y or Z.

 

I suppose that if I feel it is one way and others feel it's not clear, then yes, i guess that means a faq is in order after all haha. My bad

Is hardly clear cut enough if the changing happens before or after rerolls.

And that's very important to both sides of the effect, with each possibility having distinct advantages and disadvantages.

[Archaeinox]

Perhaps it is even better than it seems currently, before a FAQ, that it takes upon a Talisman 4th Ed. RAW sort of thing and we should take it as literal as possible (meaning we decide what order before/after re-rolls)..

 

Tzeentch indeed

Edited January 16, 2020 by Archaeinox

[Ahzek451]

Hopefully we can know more in just a couple days! There are many codex reviewers and usually someone gets a codex by this weekend and posts on youtube. Edited January 16, 2020 by Ahzek451

[Archaeinox]

Yep I'll be around youtube Friday night US time for sure creepin for it.

Edited January 16, 2020 by Archaeinox

[Skerr]

I agree it seems the trend is for 1 maybe 2 top notch options and a couple others that may fit specific lists or playstyles.

 

I am going off memory for what previous armies get though I do have the latest nid dex as a seconday army. When the new nid sex came out there were several cool hive rules though around 50 percent would gravitate to 1.