Psychic Awakening: The Ritual of the Damned

[nanosquid]

 

I suppose this make it slightly better. Still, I don't see why this relic is suppose to be so strong that it warrants a chance to help the opponent.

 

 

1.)Tzeench is thematically associated with sabotaging his own forces because of "the plan"

2.)Unlike most CP generation it doesn't require you to refund one or make any other rolls before you attempt to gain it

[Grendaxe]

I don't necessarily think that is the case. 

 

I think that once everything is out we will be more then capable of keeping up.

 

Also I can't seem to understand the communities outlook on this. I see some saying "Oh no we don't have a mono-faction bonus!" and others saying "No way I don't want a mono-faction bonus cause i wanna use daemons and be able to soup!" So the community itself is schizophrenic on what exactly it wants lol. 

 

I think if we (given it doesn't sound like we are getting a mono-faction bonus) are able to soup + take all these new abilities and detachments? Fine by me. Sounds like a win-win honestly.

 

I don't really see how this is a argument. Yes we would like to play a mono faction TS and be rewarded for it.

Tzeentch demons being excluded from breaking this requirement is not unprecedented (see inquisition) and seeing how thin our codex is, its not that unjustified.

 

So both of the people as described above can be happy. The tzeentch demons wont benefit from the boost but also wont break the TS bonus. So you can either add more TS who benefit from the mono codex boost or add tzeentch demons for more flexibility.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

 

 

I suppose this make it slightly better. Still, I don't see why this relic is suppose to be so strong that it warrants a chance to help the opponent.

 

 

1.)Tzeench is thematically associated with sabotaging his own forces because of "the plan"

2.)Unlike most CP generation it doesn't require you to refund one or make any other rolls before you attempt to gain it

 

Yep. It functions just fine even if both you and your opponent are at zero CP or if you haven't spent any at all.

[Grendaxe]

 

I suppose this make it slightly better. Still, I don't see why this relic is suppose to be so strong that it warrants a chance to help the opponent.

 

1.)Tzeench is thematically associated with sabotaging his own forces because of "the plan"

2.)Unlike most CP generation it doesn't require you to refund one or make any other rolls before you attempt to gain it

Except that is does, because you still need to pass on a 4+. If it was a CP on a 2+ and only on 1 you fail I can sort of understand that. But not on a 4+

 

Edit: But I'll be dropping out of this discussion because I'm starting to sound too negative. As I said before I'm reserving judgment until I have seen the full book. I just can't say these previews have gotten me excited. Your opinions may ofcourse be different

Edited January 14, 2020 by Grendaxe

[Guzzlrr]

 The book might be more useful than you think, most games ive played recently (other than tau) have dumped all CP by turn 3 so with the book your still generating at least.

 

Lack of information giving me the bad feels but some of the stuff previewed seems very interesting

Edited January 14, 2020 by Guzzlrr

[Sonoftherubric21]

 

I don't necessarily think that is the case. 

 

I think that once everything is out we will be more then capable of keeping up.

 

Also I can't seem to understand the communities outlook on this. I see some saying "Oh no we don't have a mono-faction bonus!" and others saying "No way I don't want a mono-faction bonus cause i wanna use daemons and be able to soup!" So the community itself is schizophrenic on what exactly it wants lol. 

 

I think if we (given it doesn't sound like we are getting a mono-faction bonus) are able to soup + take all these new abilities and detachments? Fine by me. Sounds like a win-win honestly.

I don't really see how this is a argument. Yes we would like to play a mono faction TS and be rewarded for it.

Tzeentch demons being excluded from breaking this requirement is not unprecedented (see inquisition) and seeing how thin our codex is, its not that unjustified.

 

So both of the people as described above can be happy. The tzeentch demons wont benefit from the boost but also wont break the TS bonus. So you can either add more TS who benefit from the mono codex boost or add tzeentch demons for more flexibility.

 

 

Well were getting a truck load of new rules and seemingly still have soup access. 

 

Its literally a win-win. 

 

As long as 2-3 cults are worth using and the strats are good seems like were in a good place.

 

"Best place"? No. Good place? Yes! 

[Archaeinox]

 

Duplicity warlord woooo

Especially if Duplicity Warlord is a Sorcerer in Terminator Armor, given the Emperor's Children ruling and the fact that the wording is the same

 

"I'm sorry, are your snipers out of position now that they set up to kill me and I BAMF'ed away with 10 Scarab Occult into Deep Strike Reserve?"

 

"Too bad...."

 

 

We can probably expect a similar ruling via faq/errata?

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

 

 

Duplicity warlord woooo

Especially if Duplicity Warlord is a Sorcerer in Terminator Armor, given the Emperor's Children ruling and the fact that the wording is the same

 

"I'm sorry, are your snipers out of position now that they set up to kill me and I BAMF'ed away with 10 Scarab Occult into Deep Strike Reserve?"

 

"Too bad...."

 

 

We can probably expect a similar ruling via faq/errata?

 

I'm pretty sure, yes, and TO's and others can use that as precedent when deciding in this case until there is.

[Archaeinox]

I think Double Battalion of Rubrics with a couple Rhinos, 10 Scarabs, and 3 Predators in a Spearhead Det (3 different cults) will be a good test of this stuff on release day. 

 

The wife and I go grocery shopping (the big run, anyway) once a month and I got 3 cans of electronic air lol. Gonna dust off the dusty boyz

Edited January 14, 2020 by Archaeinox

[Ahzek451]

It may be a win win, but I wish the soup was still set to the Tzeentch keyword. A little more incentive to see less lists that are "thousand sons" with ahriman and 90% nurgle.

[Prot]

There’s too much still left in the dark to be highly negative, or positive for me.

 

I still say if the rumour D2 power is true, that’s everything. Very little will out weigh that. And it makes sense to prevent soup. Frankly I’m okay with killing soup, however those special powers should be awesome. Because there’s a big price to pay: In competitive play the Thousand Sons are souped like there’s no tomorrow. This SHOULD be GW’s way of giving the ARMY some real damage, while preventing it from being leveraged by a different faction (as is now the case with the endless Command Detachments out there.)

 

The problem with the detachments idea is it does cause a bit of internet segregation. There’s no way you want to continue your Brigades with a mechanism like this. (Chaos typically does Brigades easily).

 

So I see a lot of Vanguards and/or Spearheads. But anything that makes Rubrics and Scarab Occult more feared on the table top, I’m all for. I just want less utlilty and more potency.

 

There’s still lots of time. I said from the beginning I don’t foresee dropping Third Eye (pun intended) or Crystal.. In fact the Crystal can combine with Duplicty powers for some incredible abracadabra moments during a game. 

 

+plus I sure hope Ahriman accesses all 9 cults (for casting and receiving purposes.)

Edited January 14, 2020 by Prot

[Archaeinox]

 

I still say if the rumour D2 power is true, that’s everything. 

 

I'm thinking that was a sham since the wording said they got that from the preview stuff. If that was the case, we would have seen it all. 

 

Time will tell. I'm not worried either way

Edited January 14, 2020 by Archaeinox

[Paturabo]

I don't really see how this is a argument. Yes we would like to play a mono faction TS and be rewarded for it.

Tzeentch demons being excluded from breaking this requirement is not unprecedented (see inquisition) and seeing how thin our codex is, its not that unjustified.

 

So both of the people as described above can be happy. The tzeentch demons wont benefit from the boost but also wont break the TS bonus. So you can either add more TS who benefit from the mono codex boost or add tzeentch demons for more flexibility.

I think the reason GW will not give any Chaos faction a mono-faction bonus is the Daemonic Ritual ability. A player could easily build a 2000pt list that's 1500pts of Thousand Sons (or any CSM Legion) and 500pts of reinforcement points, recieve a mono-faction bonus, and then summon 500pts of Daemons mid-game without technically breaking the mono-faction bonus rules.

 

Something that would be even easier to abuse for Undivided Chaos Marine Legions like the Word Bearers or Black Legion, who can summon any flavor of daemon they need for the situation unlike the four God Dedicated Legions.

[Special Officer Doofy]

So from the look of GK vs TS reveals, GK also got a choice of 4 mono bonuses and the mention of their own litanies on top of New spells, warlord traits, relics and strats (that are not locked to specific cult detatchment). GW sure has a boner for loyalist. Hopefully they just held back on the reveal for TS...

[MillionsSons]

Bare in mind we have sets of rules awaiting us on top of this. I agree nothing "earth shaking" but the stuff previewed is a tiny morsel compared to everything in the book. 

 

They showed a trait from duplicity. 

A Spell from Time

And a relic from change. 

 

If we can assume each of these cults now has 3 things (one trait, one spell, one relic) and we are looking at 9 pieces of gear, 9 traits, and 9 spells. *AT MINIMUM* AND Strategems. Whatever the term "host of new strategems" means will probably be somewhere around 8-12 like the other PA books. 

 

We got alot more coming folks. 

 

So obviously in our case this weekend is kind of the big moment when the reviewers finally show off the book and people get it out in the wild. 

 

 

well usually GW has an history of showing the awesome stuff in preview.

So if what we saw is the best of the 9 spells, 9 warlord traits, 9 relics, then we can just go cry.. nothing game changing, few gadgets here and there

[Ahzek451]

Well it's more accurate to say they show one really good thing(time heal), and the rest are just kinda middle of the road to lame. So theres still plenty of room for cool stuff.

[BoomWolf]

Assuming its really just 1 spell, 1 trait and 1 relic for each cult (and their FB page refuses to rebuke this, despite being asked multiple times), it means that basically, a single-detachment TS army our "buff" is basically one more spell to choose from, and nothing more.

 

Because you already HAVE a warlord trait, and to be frank we got enough good traits that the odds a cult trait would be a new hotness is very low.

You already HAVE relics. you always want the helm for CP generation (and an alternate CP generator is actually one of the new relics! and its the only relic in the game I know of that can literally help your opponent)  and you always want the DMC. taking a third relic is a bad idea, because being worth 2 more CP is highly unlikely.

 

 

So, one extra spell for my army, depending on my cult choice.

Yay.

Meanwhile GK get 4 chapter tactics to choose from, that they can change mid-game, new litanies, and 6 new spells. (to be fair, one of them is the changing of the tactic)

[WarriorFish]

We'll find out exactly what Sons get soon enough I am keen to find out too, as well as see what people can come up with. Don't forget to report back on findings and experience once you start playing with the new bits as everyone will be interested to know

[Sonoftherubric21]

Assuming its really just 1 spell, 1 trait and 1 relic for each cult (and their FB page refuses to rebuke this, despite being asked multiple times), it means that basically, a single-detachment TS army our "buff" is basically one more spell to choose from, and nothing more.

 

Because you already HAVE a warlord trait, and to be frank we got enough good traits that the odds a cult trait would be a new hotness is very low.

You already HAVE relics. you always want the helm for CP generation (and an alternate CP generator is actually one of the new relics! and its the only relic in the game I know of that can literally help your opponent)  and you always want the DMC. taking a third relic is a bad idea, because being worth 2 more CP is highly unlikely.

 

 

So, one extra spell for my army, depending on my cult choice.

Yay.

Meanwhile GK get 4 chapter tactics to choose from, that they can change mid-game, new litanies, and 6 new spells. (to be fair, one of them is the changing of the tactic)

 

So you tend to run a single detachment? I have found that in basically every game I run 2, sometimes 3. Though I do get your concerns in that regard per detachment however as it tends to limit what we can do pretty heavily with this new material. 

 

This is also based on the assumption that we aren't getting a "additional Warlord trait" strat which I would HOPE IS WRONG. lol. It makes sense we should get one, but its GW so thats a coin toss.... 

 

We will see how this all plays out. We have *ALOT* of material that is yet to be uncovered so its a "better" situation by all metrics. "Great"? yet to be seen. "Better" for sure but by what gradient is a very good question. 

Edited January 15, 2020 by Sonoftherubric21

[Skerr]

I typically run 1 to 2 detachments based on points size. I suspect most here do as well and I get the concern on the limiting factors.

[Archaeinox]

I for one look forward to the discussion of the Cults in the subforum after we get our hands on the book.

 

It could get out of hand real fast (if you missed it, they split CSM legions discussions into their own subs because they all had tons of pages over the years) and I don't think it'd be unreasonable to have a separate topic for each of the 9 cults for us. I can tag Prot, right? Darn it, how do I tag. Guess i cant. Oh well, he'll see this.

 

This would consolidate the discussion for that cult's tactics and playtest findings and not be a web of insanity. Wait. That's what we want, right?

Edited January 15, 2020 by Archaeinox

[WarriorFish]

There will not be individual Cult sub-sections or topics, this sort of thing is why Tzeentch invented topic categorisation tags after all

[Prot]

Yup, just tag your topics appropriately. Let's be honest there's a lot of attention on this faction for about 2 more weeks. I'm sure we'll be okay. 

[Sonoftherubric21]

I think what will more then likely end up happening is that the usual 40k Theory-hammer will commence but the 2-3 detachment model will be standard for us from now on (waving a solemn farewell to brigades!) as we discuss which cult will be best.... insanity may occur for several reasons.... 

 

Frankly I think there will be 3 (conjecture on my part) that are just heads and shoulders above the others lol.

 

Then again cult mixing might end up being the standard if they are all in the same range as Cult of Duplicity which has (we assume) fully revealed fairly useful and utilitarian rules but nothing gamebreaking.

 

We have 6 cults that are still totally hidden from us, and 2 cults (time and change) which have shown off their spell (time) and their relic (change).

[Archaeinox]

Yeah, maybe. I suspect that there will be things that stand out within each Cult of course encouraging us to mix and match Cults. Sure, a few cults might be superior (say, if you were to only pick 1 cult, it might have the best tricks?), but I think for the most part you will see us taking 2-3 dets of Thousand Sons, mhm.

 

People looking to bring a Supreme Command in their soup armies might be in for a treat, or they might see issues where without an entire traditional detachment (Battalion?) they might get underwhelming benefits from the Cults since they typically might only buff themselves....

Edited January 15, 2020 by Archaeinox