My Black Legion Grows: Havoc WIPs continued

[CMDR_Welles]

My cousin surprised us (mother, sister, and me) with Christmas presents this year to thank us for the help we'd given him over the last few years. He got me two of the new CSM winter Battleforce boxes. I'm in the process of inventorying what I have for my Black Legion and since I need to type it all out, might as well make the record of it here. 
 
Obsidius Mallex (probably just use him as a lord)
Master of Possession (Shadowspear)
Chaos Sorcerer (new plastic one. love it despite lack of old style helmet choices)
Dark Apostle (new one)
Exalted Champion (needs 32mm base)
Daemon Prince w/Wings
Daemon Prince without
Lord in Terminator armor (Battleforce)
Sorcerer in Terminator armor (Battleforce)
 
3 Melee Cultist Squads w/Flamer (Dark Vengeance) 10 man
Chaos Marine Squad (Shadowspear) 10 man
Chaos Marine Squad (Battleforce) 10 man
Chaos Marine Squad (Battleforce) 10 man
Chaos Terminator Squad (Battleforce) 10 man (or two 5 man)
Chaos Havoc Squad (Battleforce) 5 man
Chaos Havoc Squad (Battleforce) 5 man
Raptor Squad 5 man
2 Greater Possessed (Shadowspear)
2 Obliterators (Shadowspear)
3 Chaos Spawn
 
2 Chaos Rhinos (Battleforce)
1 Chaos Rhino (need to finish building it)
1 Land Raider (need to Chaosify one of my Imperial ones)
1 Helbrute (magnetized)
1 Forgefiend (magnetized)
1 Heldrake
1 Defiler
1 Venomcrawler (Shadowspear)
 
I "think" that's everything, not including the majority of the Dark Vengeance models I still have. Other than the cultists, this is mostly the recently released stuff. 
 
Now, I need to figure out how to build the CSM, Havoc, and Terminator squads. 
 
For CSM squads, I was considering breaking up the Shadowspear squad into melee and ranged, and making a squad of each with the Squads from the Battleforces. I think this would allow me to make 4 squads, one 10 man ranged, one 10 man Melee, and two 5 man units. The two 5 man units would utilize the Reaper Chaincannons from the Havocs.

I'm probably going to run the Havoc Squads, both with 2 Lascannons, 1 Autocannon, and 1 Missile Launcher. I dont know if I want to put all my Lascannons into one squad. Maybe one squad with 2 Lascannons, 1 Autocannon, and 1 Missile Launcher; and the other squad 2 Lascannons, 1 Autocannon, and 1 Heavy Bolter. 
 
Terminators are my biggest question. two units of 5, or one big blob of 10. Thoughts?

I dont have any pictures yet, I will when I get a chance. Things here have finally calmed down enough where I can think about hobby. Will update as I progress. 

I'd llike to get some community input before I really tear into assembling the Battleforces.

Edited January 28, 2020 by CMDR_Welles

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Looks like you have your work cut out for you - that was quite the nice present.

 

Personally, I would assemble them as you paint them - that way you get a little break from painting, and are able to think about your next assembly as you notice details about the models that you might not have noticed putting them together.  As well, a huge wall of unpainted minis can be very daunting and demotivating. 

 

It also allows you to "assemble as you play", giving you the ability to build the models that fill your needs and playstyle as you discover them through playing the army.

Edited December 12, 2019 by Dr_Ruminahui

[Sonoftherubric21]

Very solid collection! 

 

For Havocs skip the heavy bolter. Give another Autocannon. The D2 is important in some matchups, along with a 48 inch range, and the Heavy Bolters shots overlap to much with all your other anti-infantry shooting. 

 

For the Marines, I have trouble with the "melee marine unit" idea unless the unit is VERY good for its points. Possessed are close, and the obvious "go to" is the Khorne Berzerkers which are just one of the best Melee units in the game for their cost and can shred almost anything. So the Melee Marine unit is problematic. I have some Melee Shadowspear guys as well and its troublesome not knowing what to do with them. 

 

I would personally go with the Marine units all having Bolters + the 2 heavy/special weapons of choice (Reapers are great, I also like Missile Launchers on occasion, Also possibly Plasma Guns can be useful, Auto Cannons can also be decent depending on table, matchup, and army design) + Combi for sarge!  Now a squad of 10 Chaos Marines, with combi bolter and 2 Reaper Chaincannons is like 152! Not bad for what they bring to the table. Decent Troop choice. 

Edited December 12, 2019 by Sonoftherubric21

[Closet Skeleton]

I find a big blob of 15 melee chaos marines supported by a dark apostle with soulrender portent and an exalted champion to be very good in one very limited circumstance which is countering a first turn charge . Otherwise they're just target saturation at best.

[CMDR_Welles]

thanks all for the input.

As to the Melee, I was thinking of painting them with a red shoulder, and using them as Khorne Berserkers from The Hounds of Abaddon. We'll see though, I need to think about this more in light of your advice.

Is a 10 man with two Reapers better than two 5 man units? 

 

I probably wont go with Combi weapons for the Champs, as it is not a readily available piece, and I dont feel like bodging something together or buying 3rd party. It sucks, but its what I am going with. Unless there is a source of Chaos Combi-weapons other than Terminator I dont know about?

 

Speaking of Terminators, one unit of 10, or two at 5? I'll probably magnetize the Reaper AC and Heavy Flamer arms. Was thinking of giving Champs Combi-Plas, and as many Combi-Bolters in the unit I can fit.

 

Thoughts?

[Dr_Ruminahui]

If you get your hands on the marine combi weapon bits (I think they are in the basic tactical marine box), it looks fine on a chaos model and you can easily convert up other combi-weapons with the other combi-parts (except the grav, of course) by cutting up a bolter.

 

Here are my biker champions with combi weapons - the combi-plasma is the marine combi-weapon, while the combi-melta is done by cutting up a bolter and gluing it to the spare combi-melta bit.

 

[CMDR_Welles]

My boxes arrived today. 

 

Sadly, one was missing a bunch of sprues... 

No Terminators
No legs for the Marines

No Chaos Vehicle sprue

One of the Havoc sprues was missing

 

I did get a double Rhino top sprue, so there is that going for me at least lol

I've already contacted Customer Service, luckily they are really good about these things.

Nice to know my luck still holds lol Never seems to fail haha

 

The other box was complete thankfully. 

[Gederas]

That is.... quite a force o.o

 

For Havocs skip the heavy bolter. Give another Autocannon. The D2 is important in some matchups, along with a 48 inch range, and the Heavy Bolters shots overlap to much with all your other anti-infantry shooting. 

 

For the Marines, I have trouble with the "melee marine unit" idea unless the unit is VERY good for its points. Possessed are close, and the obvious "go to" is the Khorne Berzerkers which are just one of the best Melee units in the game for their cost and can shred almost anything. So the Melee Marine unit is problematic. I have some Melee Shadowspear guys as well and its troublesome not knowing what to do with them. 

 

I would personally go with the Marine units all having Bolters + the 2 heavy/special weapons of choice (Reapers are great, I also like Missile Launchers on occasion, Also possibly Plasma Guns can be useful, Auto Cannons can also be decent depending on table, matchup, and army design) + Combi for sarge!  Now a squad of 10 Chaos Marines, with combi bolter and 2 Reaper Chaincannons is like 152! Not bad for what they bring to the table. Decent Troop choice. 

Regarding melee Marines: I turned the ones I had from Shadowspear into Berzerkers for my Night Lords:

 

With Havocs, I personally recommend making them into all one-weapon units, but that's just me.

[CMDR_Welles]

That is.... quite a force o.o

 

For Havocs skip the heavy bolter. Give another Autocannon. The D2 is important in some matchups, along with a 48 inch range, and the Heavy Bolters shots overlap to much with all your other anti-infantry shooting. 

 

For the Marines, I have trouble with the "melee marine unit" idea unless the unit is VERY good for its points. Possessed are close, and the obvious "go to" is the Khorne Berzerkers which are just one of the best Melee units in the game for their cost and can shred almost anything. So the Melee Marine unit is problematic. I have some Melee Shadowspear guys as well and its troublesome not knowing what to do with them. 

 

I would personally go with the Marine units all having Bolters + the 2 heavy/special weapons of choice (Reapers are great, I also like Missile Launchers on occasion, Also possibly Plasma Guns can be useful, Auto Cannons can also be decent depending on table, matchup, and army design) + Combi for sarge!  Now a squad of 10 Chaos Marines, with combi bolter and 2 Reaper Chaincannons is like 152! Not bad for what they bring to the table. Decent Troop choice. 

Regarding melee Marines: I turned the ones I had from Shadowspear into Berzerkers for my Night Lords:

 

With Havocs, I personally recommend making them into all one-weapon units, but that's just me.

 

Yeah, that is what I was thinking for the Melee unit. Make them Zerkers

[Midnightmare]

Berzerker heads are cheap enough in eBay, though you could always plump for the FW upgrade kit and some Chainaxes :devil:

 

I am also of the opinion keep either all melee or all ranged, that’s just because it’s easier for me to keep track of more than anything.

 

Welcome to the Legion!

[CMDR_Welles]

Havocs

 

I'm going to start building my Havocs first. Now that my replacements are in, I can begin assembly. I've got enough for 3 units. That's three champions, and twelve Havocs with heavy weapons.

 

I have the following heavy weapons available to use:

 

6 Lascannons

6 Missile Launchers

5 Autocannons

5 Heavy Bolters

 

I only have two Chaincannons, as that was one of the missing sprues. No biggy. I'm planning to put them in a CSM squad anyway. They are taken care of. I just need to decide on what the other weapons to use.

 

Lascannons are a given, so are Autocannons. I'd still like to have a couple of Missile Launchers, but dont know if that would be best served in a CSM squad somewhere.

 

My "gut" says to make 6 Havocs with Lascannons, 4 Havocs with Autocannons, and 2 with Missile Launchers; and just make squads as needed before a game. I probably wont ever use more than two Havoc squads in a game, but having a 3rd on hand if I need it could be handy (as it were).

 

Thoughts?

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I think it's a good plan. I mean, heavy bolters are good because they're cheap but chaincannons are a thing so why bother?

[CMDR_Welles]

Been slow going this last month or so. I was able to get the three Havoc Champions assembled. Still need to add basing material. 

Oh, and the new Sorcerer. 

 

 

Insane how much bigger the Havocs are. 

[Prot]

Yea the Havocs are a wonderful kit. I just love them.

 

They look good. I see you have the Sorcerer too. Another fantastic sculpt.

 

I made a mistake on mine though, I painted his cloak, head, and left arm in parts and it was really hard to get it all together properly after painting it. I think you've done the best option of just keeping the head out. 

[CMDR_Welles]

Yea the Havocs are a wonderful kit. I just love them.

 

They look good. I see you have the Sorcerer too. Another fantastic sculpt.

 

I made a mistake on mine though, I painted his cloak, head, and left arm in parts and it was really hard to get it all together properly after painting it. I think you've done the best option of just keeping the head out. 

 

Yeah, the Havocs are really cool. 

 

Aaaand... The sorcerer is actually just pressfit together for the picture lol! The only thing glued to the base is the foreleg, and the staff arm is glued to the main torso. The head, backpack and spell arm are still in sub-assemblies. 

[CMDR_Welles]

And yes, those are the Icons from the new CSM kit on the Champs backpacks. I needed something to unify the army, so I went ahead and ordered a bunch of extra Eye Icons. Every Champ across the army will have said Icon. 

I've always had back banners on my SM Sergeants, so the champs were looking a little bare

[Midnightmare]

I like the icon idea, very cool :tu:

[CMDR_Welles]

I like the icon idea, very cool

 

Thanks! It feels right to me. 

 

I might not always use them as Icons of Vengeance, but they are there if I want to use the extra points.

[Aothaine]

The icons look great! I might have to use that idea myself in the future!

[CMDR_Welles]

Only two more havocs to assemble. I'd hoped for 4 Missile Launchers, but there are not enough parts for them to work without major cutting... Which I am not going to do. This squad will be 2 Missile Launchers and 2 more Autocannons. 

[Aothaine]

Only two more havocs to assemble. I'd hoped for 4 Missile Launchers, but there are not enough parts for them to work without major cutting... Which I am not going to do. This squad will be 2 Missile Launchers and 2 more Autocannons. 

 

I really think it is better to mix the weapons up if you're running more than one squad anyway. You don't want to give your opponent a tasty unit of four lascannons to shoot at you know? Spread them out. For the opponent to split fire as much as possible.