Looking for DIY Advice (Long - Sorry)

[Camillo]

Hello All!

 

My daughter and wife are finally making the plunge and getting involved with 40k!  That means the time has finally come for me to put rules to a DIY chapter I’m designing. 

 

With them in the mix, here is my “local meta:”

 

• Imperial Guard heavy on mortars, sentinels, Ogryns, and a few battle tanks (Leman Russes, Griffons).

• Eldar Harlequins- basic formations (my daughter’s new, so no cute tricks yet).

• Genestealer cult army heavy on infantry and psykers. It’s basically a Space Hulk infantry collection that can form a suboptimal footslogging army. Mostly there to teach people the rules, or if someone needs a break from their normal army.

 

Here are the creative parameters:

 

• This chapter is really an excuse to paint and field what I want and still be a cohesive army.  The rule of cool dictated what I bought, but the rules seem solid enough that should be able to pull off a good force with any combination of models. 

• I like the Primaris marine models, I like the Sisters of Silence models, and I like what I’ve seen of the Sisters of Battle plastics. So I created an army idea that allows me to paint and field them. I’ve discovered that if I buy something for an army that I don’t like (like Centurions), I end up never assembling or painting them, and so it’s a waste of money and time.  I need to have the army be made up of things that I like to paint. I know it hamstrings me, but life’s too short to paint stupid things.

• The worst part of DIY armies is trying to keep straight what everything counts as. I want the visual elements of the army to be as unambiguous as possible, so that I can explain it to an opponent in under 3 minutes, and they can remember it throughout the game without needing to ask for clarification. They came to have fun too, and extra mental bookkeeping is not fun.

• I play Space Hulk (1^st edition, all expansions), so I want as much of my army as possible to be compatible with that game. Some things (like Primaris marines) will just have to play as regular marines, but that’s the reason that I’m shying away from large vehicles. If I built the army right, I’ll be able to use it to play multiple games, which I see as a good price justification.

 

Here are the fluff parameters:

 

• The chapter is a fleet-based one, specializing in boarding actions, cityfighting, and zone mortalis engagements.

• The chapter’s symbol is a lion head, and their base color is Lupercal Green.  The contrasting color is going to be either silver, white, or leadbelcher – can’t decide. Open to other suggestions, but I’ve never done green marines, so its time now.

• The chapter is based on a hunter mentality – it loves to take out big game. The lighter infantry flushes out the enemy and whittles down the lesser forces, then the Primaris “pounce,” killing multi-wound units and (if I can) vehicles. Character models focus on taking out individual units that are a problem for the army – they plug holes. Each game would (theoretically) start right as my force prepare to “pounce” on their foes.

• Taking inspiration from a lion’s pride, I wanted the “lionesses” (single-wound models) to do the heavy lifting – they need to perform a specific battlefield role; helping funnel the enemy and feed them to the marines.

• As of now, I plan to use the Sisters of Silence models as Scouts (bolter variety only, due to model constraints), and Sisters of battle (when they are released in plastic) as devastators and any other single-wound element that I may use.

 

Here are the design parameters:

 

• The “true” space marines of the chapter will consist of Primaris marines or marines with multiple wounds – all multi-wound marines will be represented by Primaris marines to aid in visual differentiation. Female models will be used to represent single-wound (normal) marines.

• The chapter’s marines are Zone Mortalis/ space boarding action experts, so the only vehicles allowed are dreadnoughts, drop pods, rhinos/razorbacks, and impulsors.

• I envision the chapter being led at the highest levels by Librarians, so no captains – only Lieutenants.  I’m not wedded to this idea (I’ve been told that the modern meta requires captains to work, and if that’s the case, I’ll reevaluate).

• No Chaplin’s – I don’t like them.

 

 

So with all of that out of the way, here’s the meat of my problem – what primogenitor chapter do you think could be most competitive?

 

Here are the thoughts I’ve got so far:

 

• Ultramarines:  Female warriors could be Scouts, Devastators, and Tyranid Veterans.  This list would play around with the Tactical doctrine – the volume of fire from Aggressor, Heavy Bolters, and rapid fire bolt guns would be the major feature.

• Iron Hands: This list would play with the Devastator doctrine.  Intercessor with Stalker Bolt Rifles, Devastators with Heavy Bolters, and so forth. Combined with Calculated Fury, they could be formidable killers.

• Blood Angels: This one could be designed with several unique features, including Death Company Intercessors, and Sanguinary Guard as “Primaris” Assault Marines.  The bonus to wound and speed from their chapter tactics would offset the weak melee abilities of Primaris marines in general.  Warrior Women Devastators would be able to carry Heavy Flamers (which look awesome, no matter the rules), so there’s that as well.

• White Scars:  This list would make use of transports more extensively. Everything would have to be in impulsors, rhinos, or razorbacks. The plan would be to “hit and fade” with the transports to tarpit the enemy units while the infantry shoots them to death.  More vehicle-oriented than I normally like, but is has the advantage of being a newer idea for me, so there’s that.

 

I've also thought about doing an "unknown" gene-seed, using the tactics combinations in the Codex, but I'm not sure which ones would be effective. Happy to entertain any suggestions you may have in this regard as well.

 

That’s all I have. What do you think? I know it’s a lot to read, but I wanted to makes sure people knew where I was coming from, so that I didn’t waste their time – are any of these ideas feasible enough to be competitive? I’m not aiming to win tournaments (though that would be nice), but I don’t want to paint an entire army just to be tabled every engagement. 

 

Thanks in advance for looking and making suggestions – I really appreciate it.

Edited December 19, 2019 by Camillo

[Gederas]

Interesting idea, though some people who are fluff nerds might view askance at using blatantly non-Marines as marines in a Chapter (this is only because the Codex Astartes dictates Marines aren't supposed to have non-Marines with them in combat under them)

 

A couple things:

Here are the design parameters:

 

• The “true” space marines of the chapter will consist of Primaris marines or marines with multiple wounds – all multi-wound marines will be represented by Primaris marines to aid in visual differentiation. Female models will be used to represent single-wound (normal) marines.

• The chapter’s marines are Zone Mortalis/ space boarding action experts, so the only vehicles allowed are dreadnoughts, drop pods, rhinos/razorbacks, and impulsors.

• I envision the chapter being led at the highest levels by Librarians, so no captains – only Lieutenants.  I’m not wedded to this idea (I’ve been told that the modern meta requires captains to work, and if that’s the case, I’ll reevaluate).

• No Chaplin’s – I don’t like them.

• This first part is fine. Your biggest issue here would be the Sisters of Battle Retributor squad only having Heavy Bolter/Heavy Flamer/Multi-Melta (no Lascannon, Missile Launcher or Plasma Cannon) for a 'counts-as' Devastator Squad.
• Makes sense, but workable. I'd also look into the Caestus Assault Ram (if you can find it), as while the model is expensive (both $$ and somewhat points-wise), it's a dedicated Zone Mortalis/space boarding action flyer. It's also, essentially, a flying Land Raider in terms of stats. That and it looks awesome.
• Yes, this is accurate. Also: Even the Blood Ravens, who have a stupid amount of Librarians and were historically led by their Chief Librarian, still had Captains.
• Hope you don't intend on ever doing melee.... (Which in Zone Mortalis is kind of often ). Chaplains are useful because they give a lot of buffs that aren't able to be denied by enemy Psykers.

 

 

Here are the thoughts I’ve got so far:

• Ultramarines:  Female warriors could be Scouts, Devastators, and Tyranid Veterans.  This list would play around with the Tactical doctrine – the volume of fire from Aggressor, Heavy Bolters, and rapid fire bolt guns would be the major feature.

• Iron Hands: This list would play with the Devastator doctrine.  Intercessor with Stalker Bolt Rifles, Devastators with Heavy Bolters, and so forth. Combined with Calculated Fury, they could be formidable killers.

• Blood Angels: This one could be designed with several unique features, including Death Company Intercessors, and Sanguinary Guard as “Primaris” Assault Marines.  The bonus to wound and speed from their chapter tactics would offset the weak melee abilities of Primaris marines in general.  Warrior Women Devastators would be able to carry Heavy Flamers (which look awesome, no matter the rules), so there’s that as well.

• White Scars:  This list would make use of transports more extensively. Everything would have to be in impulsors, rhinos, or razorbacks. The plan would be to “hit and fade” with the transports to tarpit the enemy units while the infantry shoots them to death.  More vehicle-oriented than I normally like, but is has the advantage of being a newer idea for me, so there’s that.

I've also thought about doing an "unknown" gene-seed, using the tactics combinations in the Codex, but I'm not sure which ones would be effective. Happy to entertain any suggestions you may have in this regard as well.

 

That’s all I have. What do you think? I know it’s a lot to read, but I wanted to makes sure people knew where I was coming from, so that I didn’t waste their time – are any of these ideas feasible enough to be competitive? I’m not aiming to win tournaments (though that would be nice), but I don’t want to paint an entire army just to be tabled every engagement. 

 

Thanks in advance for looking and making suggestions – I really appreciate it.

With the description you gave of them, with the Hunter Mentality, I'd say they would fit being White Scars successors the most.

 

Then again, with such a custom design and colour-scheme, you can flat-out do any Chapter's rules.
 

Edited December 19, 2019 by Gederas

[Camillo]

I'd also look into the Caestus Assault Ram (if you can find it), as while the model is expensive (both $$ and somewhat points-wise), it's a dedicated Zone Mortalis/space boarding action flyer. It's also, essentially, a flying Land Raider in terms of stats. That and it looks awesome.

 

I just checked it out online, and yes, it is awesome looking. I don't know the rules, but in the final analysis, it doesn't matter. Too cool not to use.

 

Wait, though... can it be used by Primaris? I though not, so I'd be limited to my Sisters. Either way, I need to get at least one of them.

 

Your biggest issue here would be the Sisters of Battle Retributor squad only having Heavy Bolter/Heavy Flamer/Multi-Melta (no Lascannon, Missile Launcher or Plasma Cannon) for a 'counts-as' Devastator Squad.

Yeah, at first I thought it was a tough restriction, but when I looked at some of the math, I came up with the following:

 

* When it comes to the doctrine bonuses, volume of fire seems to be more mathematically signifigant than single shots. That makes the Heavy Bolter a cheap choice that will see the most percentile gain from the doctrine enhancements.

 

* Multimeltas and Heavy Flamers have always been some of my favorite weapons in 40k, but have never been optimal. I've gotten good with that. They look boss, and that makes them fun to paint.

 

* If I find that I really need plasma, I have the option of Hellblasters. Not strictly in keeping with the original aesthetic, but still workable.

 

Hope you don't intend on ever doing melee.... (Which in Zone Mortalis is kind of often laugh.png). Chaplains are useful because they give a lot of buffs that aren't able to be denied by enemy Psykers.

It's not that I hate Chaplins in the game - I just hate the models. I thought about using a counts-as model, but that just gives my opponent one more thing to keep track of in my army, and I think that's unfair. If they would produce a chaplain that didn't come compete with a skull-carved death mask, I would be all over it in a second. I thought about some sort of lion's head helmet for them, but GW doesn't make one, and games outside of my family meta tend to frown on "renegade" miniatures.

 

Thanks for taking the time, and for giving me some things to consider.

Edited December 19, 2019 by Camillo

[Gederas]

I'd also look into the Caestus Assault Ram (if you can find it), as while the model is expensive (both $$ and somewhat points-wise), it's a dedicated Zone Mortalis/space boarding action flyer. It's also, essentially, a flying Land Raider in terms of stats. That and it looks awesome.

I just checked it out online, and yes, it is awesome looking. I don't know the rules, but in the final analysis, it doesn't matter. Too coll not to use.

 

Wait, though... can it be used by Primaris? I though not, so I'd be limited to my Sisters. Either way, I need to get at least one of them

It can't transport Primaris (don't ask me why things that can transport Terminators can't fit the new Chadmarines [oh wait, I know why, it's to sell the new Primaris transports :lol:]) no, but it's one of those transport units that doesn't particularly need to be transporting things. Because it's a T8 Flyer with a 2+ save (and the standard Supersonic+Hard to Hit/Hover Jet options), and Power of the Machine Spirit.

 

With a SUPER nasty Melta (a Twin Magna-Melta, 24" of Heavy 2d3 S10, AP-4 Dd6 PAIN) for armour, and a Hellfire Missile Battery of doom for less armoured targets.

 

The only issue with the model: It's a Forge World model that's been OOP for a little over two years now because the mold broke, but we just saw the Gorgon Assault Boat and Iron Hands Contemptor come back, so....

[Camillo]

 

It can't transport Primaris (don't ask me why things that can transport Terminators can't fit the new Chadmarines [oh wait, I know why, it's to sell the new Primaris transports ]) no, but it's one of those transport units that doesn't particularly need to be transporting things. Because it's a T8 Flyer with a 2+ save (and the standard Supersonic+Hard to Hit/Hover Jet options), and Power of the Machine Spirit.

 

With a SUPER nasty Melta (a Twin Magna-Melta, 24" of Heavy 2d3 S10, AP-4 Dd6 PAIN) for armour, and a Hellfire Missile Battery of doom for less armoured targets.

 

The only issue with the model: It's a Forge World model that's been OOP for a little over two years now because the mold broke, but we just saw the Gorgon Assault Boat and Iron Hands Contemptor come back, so....

 

 

Curses. Well, maybe I can find one on ebay for less than the GDP of Estonia... 

 

... then again, maybe not.

[Kristoff]

 

It's not that I hate Chaplins in the game - I just hate the models. I thought about using a counts-as model, but that just gives my opponent one more thing to keep track of in my army, and I think that's unfair. If they would produce a chaplain that didn't come compete with a skull-carved death mask, I would be all over it in a second. I thought about some sort of lion's head helmet for them, but GW doesn't make one, and games outside of my family meta tend to frown on "renegade" miniatures.

While it does make it easier to identify them as Chaplains with the skull head, why not use a helmetless for your Chaplain.  His Crozius is supposed to be the symbol of his office as much as his helmet, and it could be part of the tradition of the chapter that the Chaplains face battle bare-faced to demonstrate that they Know No Fear.

[Camillo]

 

While it does make it easier to identify them as Chaplains with the skull head, why not use a helmetless for your Chaplain.  His Crozius is supposed to be the symbol of his office as much as his helmet, and it could be part of the tradition of the chapter that the Chaplains face battle bare-faced to demonstrate that they Know No Fear.

 

True... and most chapters color-code their Chaplains as well, so keeping track may not be as big a problem as I originally thought.