Some Legion Shoulder Pads "No Longer Available"

[Bung]

To be honest, i rather do well with Pop goes the Monkey shoulder Icons and stuff, so i dont really worry about the shoulder pads.

I think such upgrade bits should have been outsourced a long time ago. 

Sell an affordabel license and get them a "Designed for Horus Heresy" label and it would be good without unhappy customers. 

[Marshal Rohr]

If FW ever moved to opening a Bitz shop they might rake in cash. 3£ for a Templar Brethren Sword Sprue? People would eat that up. Edited January 25, 2020 by Marshal Rohr

[Laughingman]

To be honest, i rather do well with Pop goes the Monkey shoulder Icons and stuff, so i dont really worry about the shoulder pads.

I think such upgrade bits should have been outsourced a long time ago. 

Sell an affordabel license and get them a "Designed for Horus Heresy" label and it would be good without unhappy customers. 

 

 

certainly cheaper then suing them... Nobody wins when you start suing (except the law firms)

[Lucerne]

FW is doing an excellent job of making itself obsolete.

[Zuvassin]

I think the issue people are having is that FW is being neither consistent nor upfront.

 

It'd be one thing if the issue is that FW doesn't have the space or resources to dedicate transfer sheets, heads, torsos, shoulders, Rhino, Deimos Rhino, and Land Raider sets for all 18 legions, so they've decided to let the resin sell out as it sells out and stick to transfers. But they haven't communicated that, so you end up with random differences in what legion has what sets, and there's at least two transfer sheets (EC and Blackshields) that never came back - which implies that's not the strategy.

 

For some reason, it feels like FW is stuck in a mentality that they cannot just openly and directly admit in a WHC post or email to all that, hey, we can't print on demand as needed, and we can't stock everything we ever made, so decisions and cuts need to be made, and we are making them based on whatever - what doesn't sell well, what customers demand, what seems redundant, etc. Or "hey, we can't keep everything in stock simultaneously at all times, so here's the core all the time range and the rest will get once a year Made to Order releases for you to get (ie June is Iron Warriors and Emperor's Children, so all their upgrades and sheets will be available for pre-order on May 30th and additional stock will stay in the store from June 1st until they sell out)").

 

Or whatever. The frustration is that without any explicit direction or explanation from FW, people are left reading the tea leaves, and the tea leaves don't make sense. It makes sense for FW to stop producing non-Deimos Rhino doors ("this was a bit redundant and frees up 18 slots for more unique stuff"). It makes sense for FW to stop all shoulder pads and doors ("this frees up 72 slots and lets us consolidate all legion markings to just 18 transfer sheets"). It makes sense for FW to stop the basic legion head and shoulder pad upgrades ("this frees up 36 slots and tbh a lot of these just weren't selling"). It makes sense for FW to drop the upgrades for Ultras, BA, DA, Scars, Iron Warriors, Alpha Legion, Night Lords, and Imperial Fists ("we know it may not be quite the same, but GW makes plastics or transfers for these for 40k and it honestly lets us free up those inventory slots for more HH specific things").

 

What doesn't make sense is taking a 5 year old's self-haircut to the range, with seemingly random gaps and discontinued items across the items, with no guarantee or explanation of what to expect. Can I focus on saving for a big tank in the near future or is there zero guarantee that those Iron Warrior transfers are staying in stock past the next "out of stock" situation they encounter, whenever that may be? Or do I buy the transfers now but risk the tank going out of stock and never coming back? (which I'm currently dealing with with the Gorgon transport, when I failed to pre-order it in time before it went out of stock during the pre-order).

 

And right or wrong, none of this is helped by the 180 that GW proper has done in terms of social media and communications. Yes, they're still corporate. Yes, plenty of stuff in the main ranges goes out of stock without notice, or sells out on pre-orders, or takes forever at times to restock (I got lucky and stumbled across all six copies of the plastic Zone Mortalis tiles I need for my 6x4 table when they were released, as they've been out of stock since). Yes, 8th ed has its own rules issues.

 

BUT...GW has been winning the hearts and minds of its gamers and customers. Nobody doubts the support of either 40k as a whole or any of its armies. It's generally the truly "fringe" or outdated models that get culled - when a relatively core kit goes unavailable the question is usually not if it's been dropped but if it's actually being replaced with something new.

 

This has made FW look a lot like the GW of old, where it feels like things are being done either for arbitrary or coldly bottom line based reasons, and nobody's hearing a straight answer, let alone a promise or guarantee, of what to further expect. Which in turn makes it feel like the whole process is either a symptom of FW just not caring, or if this is a cynical sales ploy to scare gamers into panic-buying as much as they can under the vague threat that it won't be around in two years or six months or next week.

 

And...to be blunt, right or wrong, people trusted Alan Bligh. I don't get the sense that people trust FW. That may not be fair, and there's more important things in life than Horus Heresy models, but Alan's passing I think has triggered a certain sense that HH no longer has its protector/evangelist/guiding light, which in turn makes it easy to wonder if anyone "important" within FW/GW actually cares about the range, or cares enough/has enough clout to keep it viable or protect it when the latest expansion to Aeronautic Imperialis or Sisters of Battle or the return of WHFB starts making demands on warehouse space or inventory codes or production schedules.

[m_r_parker]

I don't get the sense that people trust FW. 

 

I don't trust Tony Cottrell, who is the head of ForgeWorld.

I've been to many a GW/FW event and have spoken to most of their staff in one manner or another, including Tony at various points. Most of the design team and the writers are very forthcoming about various things, but once the conversation veers towards something they can't talk about (upcoming releases, for example) they're very upfront that they're not allowed to talk about it - and I respect that. Tony's default position when asked about anything like new releases is to deny knowing anything about it, to the point where it gets ridiculous and offensive.

A couple of years ago at a FW Open Day there was a preview copy of the Grand Master edition of Adpetus Titanicus, with Tony hovering around it to stop people taking photos of the rulebook contents, and I decided to enquire as to what the release window was and how what the price range for the box was going to be. His response was that he had no idea on either, and that there might be some emails on his computer but if so he hasn't read them. I didn't think too much of it until it was announced for pre-order a couple of weeks later. You could say that maybe he genuinely didn't know about these details, until you remember that the GW release schedule is locked-down well in advance, and they would have to ship copies of AT across the world for release (to places like Australia, where shipping times aren't exactly quick). So either you can take him at face value, and accept that he's massively inept at his job, or that he's trying to dodge a bullet - but doing it in a way that shows contempt for his customer base. We all know there are things they can't reveal, but all it takes is being honest when asked about these things rather than being purposefully obtuse. The Iron Hands Contemptor Dreadnought was another example of this, where last year at the HH Weekender I asked why this model had disappeared from the range, and Tony's response was that he didn't know it was missing. Well, he was asked the same thing at the previous years event, and the one before that - yet he still manages to remember the ongoing joke of people asking when Saul Tarvitz is going to get a model (he isn't, FYI). 

From what I can tell from designers Tony has absolute control over miniature releases (certainly 30k, maybe Andy Hoare has more flexibility when it comes to Specialist Games), and nothing gets by without his say-so. Remember the Legion Cataphractii pads that were released for 6 Legions a while ago - the other 12 Legions also had pads, but Tony put the hammer down on those because he wasn't happy with them. Rather than put someone's time into fixing them, they were moth-balled. Some of the foul-ups regarding the Space Wolf releases, apparently this was Tony pushing for the models to be released before the final tweaks were made, and we all remember how that ended up with the community.

 

And this complete denial of anything being the matter feels exactly like it has come directly from Tony. The guy from Customer Services who I spoke to over the phone couldn't have had zero knowledge of anything happening, like he had said - because I can't have been the only person in over a week to have spotted this and called them out about it. Heck, I think someone in this thread sent an email or facebook message to FW and got a response. The crippling thing for me, and I presume a lot of other people, is not knowing how far this will reach into their product lines and whether I need to take proactive action to ensure I have the products that I've been eyeing-up for a while. A simple WHC post could put me at ease, saying a) what they're doing b) why they need to do it, and c) what's affected. They won't, they don't like admitting that their range is being reduced, so we're left guessing what will inevitably get the axe next. 

 

This may seem like an overly long post, but I'm just frustrated - more than I'd like to be. I like to champion FW's range, but how they communicate with their customer-base baffles me.

[Gederas]

I don't get the sense that people trust FW. 

I don't trust Tony Cottrell, who is the head of ForgeWorld.

 

This may seem like an overly long post, but I'm just frustrated - more than I'd like to be. I like to champion FW's range, but how they communicate with their customer-base baffles me.

It may be a long post, but it's true. Everything you say has merit. And yeah, with everything I've heard about Tony Cottrell, if like even 5% of it is legit.... The dude is seriously shifty.

[Laughingman]

The cuts to the range are possibly above Cottrell head, some analyst has the ears of management, shows ROI projections for Specialist game stuff are higher then HH per shelf space... Horus Heresy stuff get axed... 

[Marshal Rohr]

The return of the EC transfers has me convinced they’re moving to transfers exclusively as their iconography option. Owen Patten confirmed my suspicions the shoulders and doors were training sculpts they released in his Voxcast interview. Edited January 31, 2020 by Marshal Rohr

[Laughingman]

The return of the EC transfers has me convinced they’re moving to transfers exclusively as their iconography option. Owen Patten confirmed my suspicions the shoulders and doors were training sculpts they released in his Voxcast interview.

 

Cool... They just need to be transparent about it, and not make planning out your hobby currency the metaphorical equivalent of Tea-leaf reading...

[Marshal Rohr]

I have no control over that. Just providing info someone might've missed in the latest voxcast. 

[m_r_parker]

So, even just between this morning I've noticed that the 'Infantry Upgrade Sets' group of the HH section has reduced from 66 to 65 - so I'm now trying to find what has disappeared. Also, looks like the Blood Angel MkIII pads have now sold out.

 

I think I need to submit yet another order in to get as much as I can before they all sell out - I fear all pads, heads, and doors are on the chopping block...

[Son of Carnelian]

It's a shame that I have so many FW resin bits that I'm afraid to use on models since I might need to one day make GS molds of them. Legion personalization is a huge appeal of making a Heresy force and I don't think anyone wants plain MKIII and MKIV running around tables without any sort of legion identifiers.

[zedmeister]

Word Bearer MkIII Pads went yesterday. Noticed they got the dreaded Sold Out and now they've gone

[Robbienw]

Dark Angels Land Raider doors are gone as well.

[Gederas]

It's a shame that I have so many FW resin bits that I'm afraid to use on models since I might need to one day make GS molds of them. Legion personalization is a huge appeal of making a Heresy force and I don't think anyone wants plain MKIII and MKIV running around tables without any sort of legion identifiers.

I hear ya man. My (40k Chaos) Night Lords are exclusively using the Terror Squad helmets for their regular Marines. If those go, I'm gonna have a major issue.

[m0nolith]

 

It's a shame that I have so many FW resin bits that I'm afraid to use on models since I might need to one day make GS molds of them. Legion personalization is a huge appeal of making a Heresy force and I don't think anyone wants plain MKIII and MKIV running around tables without any sort of legion identifiers.

I hear ya man. My (40k Chaos) Night Lords are exclusively using the Terror Squad helmets for their regular Marines. If those go, I'm gonna have a major issue.

 

Yeah they seem to be getting rid of a lot of things, but one thing they're not getting rid of are the helmet upgrades. Those seem to sell really well due to a lot of 40k players buying them as well. There's also the fact that I think people are panic buying things that they weren't even planning on getting rid of, and now they're out of stock.

Edited January 31, 2020 by m0nolith

[MegaVolt87]

 

 

It's a shame that I have so many FW resin bits that I'm afraid to use on models since I might need to one day make GS molds of them. Legion personalization is a huge appeal of making a Heresy force and I don't think anyone wants plain MKIII and MKIV running around tables without any sort of legion identifiers.

I hear ya man. My (40k Chaos) Night Lords are exclusively using the Terror Squad helmets for their regular Marines. If those go, I'm gonna have a major issue.

 

Yeah they seem to be getting rid of a lot of things, but one thing they're not getting rid of are the helmet upgrades. Those seem to sell really well due to a lot of 40k players buying them as well. There's also the fact that I think people are panic buying things that they weren't even planning on getting rid of, and now they're out of stock.

 

 

Thats a double edged sword though. It's very possible when something sells out they just won't do another run and cut the product. Good sales doesn't really seem to imply something staying in FW's case. 

[m0nolith]

 

 

 

It's a shame that I have so many FW resin bits that I'm afraid to use on models since I might need to one day make GS molds of them. Legion personalization is a huge appeal of making a Heresy force and I don't think anyone wants plain MKIII and MKIV running around tables without any sort of legion identifiers.

 

I hear ya man. My (40k Chaos) Night Lords are exclusively using the Terror Squad helmets for their regular Marines. If those go, I'm gonna have a major issue.

Yeah they seem to be getting rid of a lot of things, but one thing they're not getting rid of are the helmet upgrades. Those seem to sell really well due to a lot of 40k players buying them as well. There's also the fact that I think people are panic buying things that they weren't even planning on getting rid of, and now they're out of stock.

 

Thats a double edged sword though. It's very possible when something sells out they just won't do another run and cut the product. Good sales doesn't really seem to imply something staying in FW's case.

I’m sorry dude, but I have to disagree with you there.

When something sells well, they keep it around. When something doesn’t, they don’t.

I really don’t know why you would think otherwise. The only exceptions are the rare occasions where the mould breaks like it did for the original Dreadnought Drop Pod.

[Gederas]

It's a shame that I have so many FW resin bits that I'm afraid to use on models since I might need to one day make GS molds of them. Legion personalization is a huge appeal of making a Heresy force and I don't think anyone wants plain MKIII and MKIV running around tables without any sort of legion identifiers.

I hear ya man. My (40k Chaos) Night Lords are exclusively using the Terror Squad helmets for their regular Marines. If those go, I'm gonna have a major issue.

Yeah they seem to be getting rid of a lot of things, but one thing they're not getting rid of are the helmet upgrades. Those seem to sell really well due to a lot of 40k players buying them as well. There's also the fact that I think people are panic buying things that they weren't even planning on getting rid of, and now they're out of stock.

 Thats a double edged sword though. It's very possible when something sells out they just won't do another run and cut the product. Good sales doesn't really seem to imply something staying in FW's case.

I’m sorry dude, but I have to disagree with you there.

When something sells well, they keep it around. When something doesn’t, they don’t.

I really don’t know why you would think otherwise. The only exceptions are the rare occasions where the mould breaks like it did for the original Dreadnought Drop Pod.

I hope you're right Monolith, I hope you're right

 

[Archangel975]

I have to agree with Son of Carnelian with making molds of stuff you may want in the future. I continue to save masters for the future.
I personally don't believe GS to be the way to go on that, but I understand that not everyone wants to invest in a high end mold making set-up. I personally feared GW/Forgeworld dropping items from their line since 1998. When they initially came out with a lot of the models that GW wasn't planning on making, I was delighted, but doubtful. I was about 21 at the time and just getting started in life, so I didn't have much money to throw around. I thought the resin bits like extra armor and legion doors were cool but they couldn't last... I bought a big pile of them and started reproducing them myself. Larger models like the baneblade would just have to be out of reach... I am seriously kicking myself for not getting the trailers and the platform w/carriage for the Trojan when they existed. I thought, I'll just get them later... then they were gone. Some one in Poland has masters and is reproducing them here and there, but they go for big money and they don't have the one I want...

 

At the time it was a monetary decision, because when we played it was more like epic, just using the 28mm scale. I wanted my Dark Angels to look cooler than my friends Space Wolves, with special parts. After High-school I got work in an antique collector dollshop, and got to do/practice resin casting on someone else's dime. Its not super-expensive, but its not cheap either, and depending alot on your comprehension level, there can be a steep leaning curve... I've tried to teach other people to do it before I left the shop, but no one could pick it up readily. I left for my apprenticeship and the dollshop closed soon after. But, whatever...


Also from my experience, the silicone molds don't just break. They don't! They can wear out, if they don't use the right amount of release and just tear the cured parts out, they don't break. And to get the through-put on the volume they do worldwide, every model forgeworld makes is a 3rd/4th generation cast. They make the first mold of the original master, they use those casts to make 10/20 or so molds to do their short production run. Maybe in the case of flat stuff like doors they make a fourth run to meet volume requirements. I would like to point out that all of their resin is vacuum/heat cured, that keeps the silicone flexible. Their turn-around on a cast mold might not be super high, but they have solved the quality issue with bubbles, the beginning things were not so great and required a fair amount of work... Anyone who says the mold broke, (like the Dread Droppod) isn't telling the whole story, because they can totally pull enough parts to make a suitable new master and make a cast/run off that. The time to do that isn't bank-breaking, I know they would do it for themselves, because that's what I did... After all, the trailers I want are featured in the Imperial Fists invasion of the Iron Warriors Loading Dock. So they had to come from somewhere...

[MegaVolt87]

Every kit FW discontinues is money they are no longer making and giving to re-casters. Even if a mould is not selling like contemptor money, it should stay because not everyone will get re-cast FW if they continue to produce it. 

[Marshal Rohr]

It is not easy or reliable to buy from recasters and the quality is always hit or miss. It’s disingenuous to pretend you can pop online and have a contemptor kit show up from China the same way you can from Forge World. You have to trawl through endless Facebook posts and find the right store, that may not be open forever. When you do order you might not get all the pieces. It’s not a magical solution, it’s a band aid.

[MegaVolt87]

It is not easy or reliable to buy from recasters and the quality is always hit or miss. It’s disingenuous to pretend you can pop online and have a contemptor kit show up from China the same way you can from Forge World. You have to trawl through endless Facebook posts and find the right store, that may not be open forever. When you do order you might not get all the pieces. It’s not a magical solution, it’s a band aid.

 

I never said it was easy or a good solution. I was saying re-casters are getting way more business than they should be because of FW cutting products. Like I said, some kits are not making contemptor sales/ popularity, but should still be stocked for people who still want them regardless of price of official FW. Forcing interested customers to knockoffs is not a good thing. 

[Laughingman]

It is not easy or reliable to buy from recasters and the quality is always hit or miss. It’s disingenuous to pretend you can pop online and have a contemptor kit show up from China the same way you can from Forge World. You have to trawl through endless Facebook posts and find the right store, that may not be open forever. When you do order you might not get all the pieces. It’s not a magical solution, it’s a band aid.

 

As somebody outside of the UK, I can assure you the majority of Resin in my local 30K scene is now recast anyway, the price hikes hit the American and Australian scenes hard.. 3D printing on a decent SLA printer is also getting to the point where its possible to cross shop.  I know somebody with a SLA printed  saber strike tank that is virtually indistinguishable from a real one.