PA6: Saga of the Beast Discussion

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

I was hoping we'd be limited to 1 sub culture per army and it stacked on top of our clan, which could have helped boost up ork combos that aren't taken. Though some of the strats are fluffy fun, and Ghaz has set a very interesting new standard for the potential survivability of named monster models, this isn't quite the bump I was hoping for my Snakebites. Some neat bumps to Mork/Gorkanoughts though, and I suppose a buffed detachment of burna boys could be fun. Won't ever field feral boys with those rules though. 

[Warhead01]

Yeah, that's a nice thing! No more index fist shaking from others.

 

Overall, there's a lot of fun, fluffy stuff. But decent/good stuff appears the be in the minority of this PA. For the most, it all feels pretty sub-par, sadly. Couple standouts, but the book seems like a resounding "Meh" to me.

 

Having to give up a kultur to get one subkultur per detachment seems like GW trying to get orks to move away from double battalion minimum, but who ever would? Picking two subs would've probably been okay, but just one? Evil suns for melee and moons for shooting still reign supreme.

 

Feel like there's huge missed opportunity here, and that missed opportunity is the essence of this PA, at least the orks half.

 

In comparison, Blackmane is fun, a monster in melee, and points/rules appropriate as all get-out.

 

*Sad trombone*

That's a whole lot of crying. 

 

Evil Suns  lol.  Never happened.  Your confusing being fast with good at fighting. 

Both Ghaz and Ragnar suffer from the problem, 8th edition is bland. 

And most of the bespoke rules reflect this blandness. It's that or bad booking by Vince Mcmahon, of Phill Kelly.  

Sadly this is the best Orks have had it in 5 editions. 

 

But I like Ghaz, He moves a massive 7" on foot which is plenty, should he choose to walk.  I expect he'll be the anvil to the rest of the armies hammer making close combat on turn two from either a casual stroll across the field or deep strike. Both are fine choices. And most of my games tend to end on turn three, if they go that far so it's only fare for the other player that Ghaz doesn't get there sooner. If the other player is ...silly and let's me get Ghaz in on turn 1...I'll take it. 

I think the real "problem" with Ghaz is competitive player's setting their expectations too high.  Meh, I am looking forward to working on the Ghaz miniature, does it still count as a miniature? I can't see putting him on the table in less than 3000 points preferably more. 

 

But hey! We got out KFF Mek back, so there's that, and just in time to babysit a grot detachment! 

[Kaldoth]

I just finished watching a preview video and I'm in the mixed feelings boat on this one as well.

 

I mean, all of it is an improvement, don't get me wrong. But to get a lot of these rules to work for you, Ork players are going to have to sacrifice a lot in taking detachments.

 

Not being able to retain the parent clan keyword and having to take the subkulture keyword for an entire detachment is gutting. At least that's what it sounded like from the video I watched. Not being able to retain that clan keyword means you're going to have to load up on a lot of spearhead, vanguard, and outrider detachments. Getting your flyers to benefit from them means taking an air wing detachment period in most cases. I feel like this was an attempt by GW to get Ork players away from running dual batallions, and it's definitely not the route they should have gone.

 

What I think makes that worse is the fact taking Kustom Jobs are tied to CP. The mekboy workshop just isn't worth taking at all because of how it renders your unit useless for a turn, and 80 points is too much to justify a free kustom job. So yeah, more CP down the drain. I also don't know why we didn't get any actual relics to use.

 

The psychic powers are pretty good though! There are plenty of things in there that are useful. And huzzah for the KFF Mek being returned!

Edited March 21, 2020 by Kaldoth

[XIXWYRMEXIX]

Personally I am happy with it. Yes it would be better if the subcultures did not replace the clan culture. I still see useful combinations depending on how you are setup. I am not worried about the CP costs either, it is easy to farm CP with the boyz. I like the kustom jobs a lot. I see a few in there that will be very useful for my dreadmob greentide. I thought the badmoon psychic power was weak. I would use so many other powers before that. The lack of new relics sucks. Big bummer there. I knew the BM w/KFF would be back officially, eventually. 

 

I am certain I will be going one goff detachment, one badmoon detachment and a grot detachment. My friend has been bothering me for months to make a grot army anyway. I will stick artillery and kans in the grot detachment. With kans in the grot detachment and a kustom job on them they become decent for antiarmor when equipped with rokkits. Rerolling ones and hitting on 3+ is not bad.

[toaae]

Here's a solid link to a reddit post that contains a link to the Goonhammer article. More importantly, some wise sage took the time to type out everything, so you can see all the stratagems, specialist mobs, psychic powers, and kustom jobs.

So, I wanna get my negatives out of the way quick:

 

• The KFF is inconsistent with the codex, which either means we're going to get an FAQ changing the old ones (being an overall nerf, I feel), or an FAQ bringing the new one back in line with the codex version. Either way, that's a sad state of affairs.
• Makari and Ghaz are both very overpriced and I don't think there's anything else in the book that makes them better. Ghaz will be cool and fun, but it's a shame he's not very good.
• Specialist mobs are cool effects, but it's a shame we have to dedicate a whole detachment to them. Most ork players already use all 3 detachments, often with 3 different clans! So it'll be hard to justify some of these specialist mobs, as none are game-changing.

 

Ok, to the fun stuff:

 

• The specialist mobs do have some cool things. From things that make some bad units better, like Killa Kans in either Grot Mobs are Tin 'Eads, to very unique ones that will be real cool in narrative games, like the Huntas in a Cities of Death game. I do think there's fun things here.
• Kustom Jobs. Being able to just buy as many as you want for a single CP each is awesome. For my list, I see always giving my Morkanaut Sparkly Bitz for BS4+, the Gorkanaut will get Slug Gubbin for a killier gun, and a bonebreaka will always gets the Red Rolla for a flat 6 bonus attacks on the charge. Furthermore, the ones you can give to the buggies all appear good, so if you wanna run some of those, you have ways to make them even better. Even the much-maligned Rukkatrukk Squigbuggy gets an ability that almost makes it worth it's points. I love kustom jobs.
• More psychic powers are cool. None are too exceptional, though the Deathskullz one is close, and the Freebooterz one is a sleeper. But it's cool to have them as options.
• The stratagems are a lot like the kustom jobs: they just give more play to a lot of semi-good stuff. Full stop, the Hit 'Em Harder strat makes Meganobz super, duper mean, and for just 1CP, it's a real steal. There's a bunch of 1CP strats that I can see getting a lot of play, which is exactly what I wanted to see from the book. The two bombers each got something. Deff Dreadz can blend up enemy units. There's even a super niche stratagem, Unstoppable Momentum, that will rarely ever get played. But when it does, it will probably be a game-changing strat.

 

Overall, I'm fairly happy. It's no Grey Knights PA rework, but it took a bunch of poor to ok units and gave them a sufficient boost. Even Killa Kans and Squigbuggys, which were either very bad datasheets and/or supremely overcosted, look like they could be made to work without handicapping an army list too much. I think with this, every option in our codex (except the Mek boy shop) is at least "ok".

[01RTB01]

Well, Running a variety of stuff has at last paid off!

 

I've listened to the review of Saga of the Beast. Is it game breaking? Probably not but happy days!!!

 

Little boosts and tweaks to units that can be added in and more customization. +1BS for killa kans and rokkits at S9... Be rude not to really since they're already built and painted :D :D :D More dakka for the gorkanaut, quicker, stompier dreads... Rokkit boyz ahoy

 

Longer ranged flash git strat, more dakka for the snazzwagon, upgraded rivet cannons, dragstas can redeploy after shooting... etc

 

I need more CP and some others need to quit grumbling so much. It's fun, thematic and adds choice. It's all good ["BuT MaHH BaD mOoNz DaKkA iZ bEsT"] - book may not be for you :P

[Lexington]

Anyone seen a review with the Big Mek datasheet? Curious what kinda of armament is available.

[XIXWYRMEXIX]

Anyone seen a review with the Big Mek datasheet? Curious what kinda of armament is available.

 

None. He comes with slugga, choppa, and stikbombs. He comes with KFF. Zero options otherwise. looking at a paused review with his data sheet.

[Warhead01]

Wildfire is outstanding! 

also, pre order are up, and listed on ebay with a happy mark down.

Edited March 21, 2020 by Warhead01

[Lexington]

 

 

Anyone seen a review with the Big Mek datasheet? Curious what kinda of armament is available.

None. He comes with slugga, choppa, and stikbombs. He comes with KFF. Zero options otherwise. looking at a paused review with his data sheet.

Ugh, man, boo-urns. I have an old KFF Mek with a Burna and Shoota that I’d always used as a Kombi-Scorcha, and I like that conversion. Guess I’ll just tell opponents “he has that extremely basic equipment and you can deal with it.” :p

[PiñaColada]

The sub-kulturs are much more supplemental than anything else it feels like but overall there's a lot to like here I think. Couple of needed FAQs/erratas but other than the fact that Orks are even CP hungrier than before this is great fun I think. There are a couple of builds that I want to digest but this PA breathes some new life into the Orks and that's pretty much all I dared hope for. 

[Lexington]

I like the fun boosts and other paraphernalia that this book is supplying, tho I‘m wondering if full judgement on it will only be able to be rendered after 9th hits. Wouldn’t be the first time GW “designed forward,” releasing supplements that made more sense after a fast-following new edition.

[Kaldoth]

I like the fun boosts and other paraphernalia that this book is supplying, tho I‘m wondering if full judgement on it will only be able to be rendered after 9th hits. Wouldn’t be the first time GW “designed forward,” releasing supplements that made more sense after a fast-following new edition.

 

From everything I've heard (which admittedly isn't much) about 9th, it's supposed to be compatible with all the current books when it drops. I imagine with GW's new penchant for giving us new stuff every single month, they realized the customer base would probably storm their offices if all these books and rules were only good for a period of a few months to a year from the time we bought them. Here's hoping anyway :P

[Lexington]

Oh, I mean more like the transition from 4th to 5th - specifically, IIRC, the Ork Codex released at the end of 4th had at least a few rules that really only made sense when 5th dropped 3 - 4 months later. Who knows if that’ll be the case here, but I wouldn’t be 100% surprised if things we view as lackluster or nonsensical now end up being better once 9th drops (likely) this summer.

[Kaldoth]

Just took a look at the KFF Mek sheet. Only applies to friendly <CLAN> units instead of friendly <ORK> units, and also doesn't work inside of vehicles. Bummer :/ Still good for foot slogging armies, but there goes my idea for a bunch of Burna Boyz in a 5++ Chinork zipping around the board.

[01RTB01]

Just took a look at the KFF Mek sheet. Only applies to friendly <CLAN> units instead of friendly <ORK> units, and also doesn't work inside of vehicles. Bummer :/ Still good for foot slogging armies, but there goes my idea for a bunch of Burna Boyz in a 5++ Chinork zipping around the board.

Mega mek with kff does but adds a massive chunk of points

[toaae]

 

Just took a look at the KFF Mek sheet. Only applies to friendly <CLAN> units instead of friendly <ORK> units, and also doesn't work inside of vehicles. Bummer :/ Still good for foot slogging armies, but there goes my idea for a bunch of Burna Boyz in a 5++ Chinork zipping around the board.

Mega mek with kff does but adds a massive chunk of points

 

 

I cannot imagine we're not getting an FAQ that either changes this version to the codex version (please!) or the codex versions to this version (oh no).

 

Unless you're playing a mono-clan list, I think the new version is strictly a nerf, even if it works in melee. Wholly within is super restrictive, and would constrain how far boyz and large units could pile-in and consolidate, or they'd easily lose the aura. Also, this puts the Big Mek in the mid-field, making him an easy target for many opponents. I doubt the melee save will come up that often.

 

In exchange for that difficult-to-use-well ability, you give up having universal coverage from one model, necessitating taking one for each clan represented. That's 35-90 points extra you have to spend to get the same level of protection. And the big mek doesn't give anything other than that save. It's hard for him to keep up with vehicles to repair (also <Clan> locked), he doesn't have shooting, he doesn't have a threatening melee for counter-attacking. He's just a KFF bot. Taking extra is just a nerf.

[Kaldoth]

^ What he said +1.

 

I don't normally email the faq people, but with how this PA has turned out I think I will. I doubt even if the entire ork community griped about how subkultures work it would get changed, but maybe we can save the Big Mek at least.

[PiñaColada]

If that is to become the new KFF wording overall (and honestly no clue whatsoever if that's the case, it's so oddly divergent), but if it is the case then the big mek in mega armour with the KFF and new strat might get some use. Meganobz got a pretty decent buff and having a beefy big mek might be worth it to tag along then? 

I can't imagine the big mek with KFF is just 55 points though, that means that either the KFF should be free overall in the codex now (which would be nuts) or that the big mek is 35 points base, which should mean a 20 point shave on the shokk attack gun big mek (a unit that does not need a price drop). I assume that GW borked this one in more ways than one, it will be interesting to see what they meant in the end

[01RTB01]

I'm also assuming FAQ. Having the same wargear with different rules - won't happen.

 

Sensible opponents will go with it. Not that we're playing anyone at the moment...

[toaae]

GW put up a fun article. It's obviously silly and cannot represent an actual in-game situation, but nonetheless, it should showcase how nutty Ghaz is in any one-on-one fight.

 

We're nearly there, ladz. Just a few more days.

[Guest Triszin]

GW put up a fun article. It's obviously silly and cannot represent an actual in-game situation, but nonetheless, it should showcase how nutty Ghaz is in any one-on-one fight.

 

We're nearly there, ladz. Just a few more days.

I like that ghaz can potentially solo a knight.

 

It means he can just eat armigers

[Lord_Caerolion]

 

GW put up a fun article. It's obviously silly and cannot represent an actual in-game situation, but nonetheless, it should showcase how nutty Ghaz is in any one-on-one fight.

 

We're nearly there, ladz. Just a few more days.

I like that ghaz can potentially solo a knight.

 

It means he can just eat armigers

 

 

And knowing Orks, that's probably true in both meanings.

[Warhead01]

I get that that article was just for fun but it came off kinda weird. I'm not sure they realize what being a Goff means. Ghaz hits 5 out of 5 times against the redemptor. I seem to manage 6 or 7 out of 5 every time I have rolled it out when Ghaze's stats dropped.  Ghaz is a total beast if you can get him to the right target. 

[01RTB01]

It's the oddity of the system that (on 5 attacks) assuming no exploding hits he can drop 5 guardsmen or a knight...

 

It's one thing in AoS that I like is whereby damage spills over.

 

That said, the article amused me it was fun. All it needed to be. I shared it on Facebook and Crikey, people went nuts...