Shadow and Iron supplement discussion

[Fajita Fan]

So Audax points have changed things slightly, I’m totally taking the 15 point armor upgrade on all of them.  I want 6 or 7 so I have points for knights, Acastus feel useful to lay down ranged fire in a list that seems committed to swapping spit with the enemy. 

 

I’m also thinking of ways to model the lance, maybe some leftover Cerastus lance tips from my conversions?  I honestly don’t love my 40k Custodes jetbike lances and I’d rather use swords for them which would free that bit but I also want them to have a Chaosy feel. Maybe model them as axes?

 

 

1985:  All Warhounds with armor plating

 

Warhound 

Turbolaser

Ursas claw

 

Warhound

Turbolaser

Ursas claw

 

Warhound

Plasma

Ursas claw

 

Warhound

Plasma

Ursas claw

 

Warhound

Plasma

Shock Lance

 

Warhound

Megabolter

Shock Lance

 

Warhound

Megabolter

Shock Lance

 

 

Acastus Scion

Conversion beamer

 

Acastus Scion

Conversion beamer

 

2 Cerastus lancers

Edited February 13, 2020 by Fajita Fan

[schoon]

Thanks for the notes and screen shots!

 

I'll watch it later today and see if anything else jumps out at me...

[Dosjetka]

Fajita Fan: I'd suggest shifting list-building to another thread so as to 1) not bog this one down too much/any further and 2) allow your list get the attention/feedback it requires. :tu:

[Marshal Rohr]

The featureless helmet on the Psi-Titan is super creepy in satin black

[wildweasel]

The featureless helmet on the Psi-Titan is super creepy in satin black

Messing with different finishes, especially to set apart certain elements on a model, is an underrated (and easy) technique.

[schoon]

The featureless helmet on the Psi-Titan is super creepy in satin black

Or Ivory white...

 

Which is my plan after I file off the centerline ridge.

[RipOffProductions]

 

Corrupted Titans down the line, as narrative gets close to Terra – probably not the old flying ones of Tzeentch, but stuff like Mordax Nurgly titans, Banelords, Tzeentch psi-Titans.

ooo, I like this, fits perfectly with something I was already planning.

 

A big part of my design philosophy for my homebrew Titan Legion was to make it so that I'd have an excuse to include/use/buy one of everything that ever gets released, so I already had this idea that one of their Titans was home to a bunch of Psykers that worked together to emulate a Psi-Titan gameplaywise, even if that's that what it actually was lore-wise, and that they'd later fall to Tzeetch so I'd have an excuse for any Tzeetch specific daemon-titan stuff.

 

however, on the other hand I(and likely many others) don't like that the loyalists are going to be loosing their unique Titan type to a sub-category of the Traitor's unique Titans, unless the differences will be so big that the matching moniker of "Psi-Titan" is more confusing then helpful...

Edited February 15, 2020 by RipOffProductions

[1ncarnadine]

 

The featureless helmet on the Psi-Titan is super creepy in satin black

 

Or Ivory white...

 

Which is my plan after I file off the centerline ridge.

This is a great idea!

 

I think I’d run with the satin black, and a single, minimalist eye symbol on one half in white. Or, similar idea, just a stenciled-on two-digit number on one side, between 01 - 25 (or higher if you want to imply there are more psi-titans, or maybe that there are just gaps or esoteric significance to certain numbers).

[Mandragola]

I watched the stream. Perhaps worth mentioning that some of this stuff, such as psychic tzeench titans, was totally hypothetical. I didn’t get the impression that this was in the pipeline at all - only that they were leaving their options open.

[klisof]

For those holding out to get the psi-titan upgrades separately to the warlord titan, it looks like that will happen at some point.

 

I got my psi-titan this morning, it's a sealed full warlord kit with a separate box with the upgrades.

 

It would be so easy to sell those separately as the packing is already done I can't see it not happening after initial sales drop.

[Mendi Warrior]

I asked FW about this and their answer was that they have no plans for selling the upgrade set separately right now but suggested keeping an eye on the WHC site for updates.

Curious to see if the upgrade set will be priced at £20 once it becomes available (not holding my breath).

[RipOffProductions]

I watched the stream. Perhaps worth mentioning that some of this stuff, such as psychic tzeench titans, was totally hypothetical. I didn’t get the impression that this was in the pipeline at all - only that they were leaving their options open.

fair enough, but Chaos Corrupted/Possessed Titans are going to be a thing eventually, and each of the Gods getting something special for their servants makes sense.

[noigrim]

So basically the titan moves with boosted speed without taxing the reactor?

[Beren]

Having started to read the Shadow and Iron, I must say that I'm disappointed with the way Knight Houses were handled. Three Knight Houses, all from the same sector, all happen to be present in the 500 worlds at the same time while all the knight houses that actually come from there unilaterally decide not to side with either the Loyalists or Traitors? House Malinax siding with the traitors when their home forgeworld of Xana does not declare for the traitors until two years later? (The Xana incursion occurs in 009, Calth in 007 according to Lexicanum.)  It's my immediate reaction, so maybe I haven't got to the part where this is satisfactorily explained, or a wider range of Houses is at least mentioned as having participated, but all the same...

[Fajita Fan]

I could see an army in the field like Malinax choosing their alliance (like declaring for the Warmaster) long before their home planet does.

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

I could see an army in the field like Malinax choosing their alliance (like declaring for the Warmaster) long before their home planet does.

 

This is something specifically talked about with the Malinax contingent present at Prospero in Inferno, which makes particular mention of the fact that the House had been part of the Great Crusade long before they were tied to Xana, and many scions have never even seen their 'home' Forge

[Beren]

Perhaps, but they haven't made any effort to highlight this in the text. Even if the fluff describing Malinax it states that they weren't declared traitor until their Forgeworld was. Along similar lines it is claimed that a Knight Armour downed in the Liberation of Numinal (009) was placed in stasis and gifted to a scion for their actions at the Battle of Calth (007), before being used to fight alongside Praesagius across the five hundred worlds when the Crusade of Iron only lasted 2 years (if it began with Calth, it ought to have ended in 009). It's sort of plausible, but not not because the writers have gone to any effort of making it so.

 

I mean, I'm aware that they wanted to get in the Houseworlds Forgeworld had already done lore on, but the way they've done it feels painfully obvious whilst also pigeonholing the local Households that could have been devised.

Edited February 17, 2020 by Beren

[RedFurioso]

It's sort of plausible, but not not because the writers have gone to any effort of making it so.

And the 'ancient Martian Legio Praesagius', which was actually born as scions of Legio Gryphonicus millenia later.

[Beren]

Technically them being Gryphonicus scions is a little odd in the first place, as Gryphonicus was dispatched on one of the earliest exploration fleets and Praesagius was founded on Mars specifically for the Great Crusade. I sort of self justified this by rationalising that Praesgius must have been formed from a core of Gryphonicus titans and resources that had been left behind on Mars. Another explanation for the that and the knight house dates could just be the unreliable narrator + warp shenanigans messing the timeline up, but that doesn't really excuse the annoying treatment of which houses were present.

 

On a more positive note, I really enjoyed the fluff for Legio Mordaxis and and the Dark Waters battle.

Edited February 18, 2020 by Beren

[Marshal Loss]

Really enjoyed the lore in S&I. As usual my only real criticism was that I wanted more (but considering what we get packed into these campaign books for the price, and how quickly they're pumping them out, it's no biggie).

 

I do think, however, that FW should put a little bit more effort into the Titan lore/art sections. Not a lot, mind you; but every Legio should get a minimum of 3x plates (Warhound + Reaver/Warmonger + Warlord) & a few paragraphs of lore. Knight houses shouldn't be getting more individual lore sections than Titan Legions in Adeptus Titanicus. I need to know more about Mordaxis!

 

That being said, and I am preaching to the choir here, but it feels like another smash-hit from the Titanicus team.

 

now begins my long wait for Mordaxis transfers

[Reyner]

Yeah some more lore on Mordaxis would have been nice like what were they like before the Word Bearers infected them and stuff like that? All we have (well all I've managed to read so far) is that they had sealed manufactorums they lived in during the Age of Strife due to all the toxins on their homeworld. 

[Gore Crow]

S&I was great, good value for what we are paying and for the size of the team.

 

I would like more fresh lore on legios and houses, and I think I'm ok having to do some of the legwork piecing bits together from multiple sources to save them rehashing info that's already in the wild - even if it's HH black books which are harder to access. 

Edited February 19, 2020 by Gore Crow

[Sandlemad]

It's kind of weird to read an AT book and find yourself hoping that FW covers X or Y legion in a future 30k black book because there they'd get a lot more intricate detail (on the order of what Praesagius or Xestobiax received) but that's the approach they've taken with AT and I can see the advantages. Glad to hear the stuff in S&I is by and large decent, apart from a few of the usual errors.

[Mandragola]

Overall I think S+I looks like a great supplement. There are a ton of rules in there for 6 Legios, a bunch of knight households, Psi-titans, new weapons and stratagems and also the campaign section. It’s a lot of stuff and the rules seem good.

 

I agree that the fluff is pretty light. We could all probably do with more detail on our Legios. But overall I think the book is a success at giving us a balanced set of information.

 

FW’s issues with proof reading remain though. The book mostly makes sense but there are some missing weapon rules (bypass?) and some mistakes, particularly in the cards for the Warbringer and Psi-Titan. No carapace rule on the WB’s big guns and the Psi-Titan’s laser blasters get +1 to hit at long range instead of -1… at least if you believe the card. It shouldn’t be hard to check this stuff.

[Marshal Loss]

Yeah some more lore on Mordaxis would have been nice like what were they like before the Word Bearers infected them and stuff like that? All we have (well all I've managed to read so far) is that they had sealed manufactorums they lived in during the Age of Strife due to all the toxins on their homeworld. 

 

These are the only bits of lore related to what they were like before the Word Bearers:

 

 

 

Audax had long been ostracised by the older Legios for their savagery and unconventional ways of waging war, and so were easily convinced of Horus’ righteousness. By contrast, Mordaxis had been pure and loyal soldiers in the Emperor’s armies during the Great Crusade. On the eve of the Heresy, they had been brought low by a malevolent machine plague devised by the Dark Mechanicum. This techno-virus infected the Legion’s Princeps, stripping them of their will and individuality until they remained as little more than puppets slaved to the will of their Titans’ corrupted machine spirits.

 

 

 

The Reaver Titan was once honoured for its assault upon the fortress of the Illucidian Barons, breaking their back with precise, lightning fast charges. The god-engine that walked upon Talassar was profoundly different, each step ponderous and heavy, as if weighed down by the corruption that had taken root within it.

 

Looks like they went from energetic melee-happy goody two shoes' to plodding Nurgle slaves thanks to the influence of their "allies".

 

Another interesting point is that at least one of the two images (the Warlord Titan) of Mordaxis titans in the book are actually pre-heresy, so there's a lot of room to either class them up for early-Heresy or weather them down bigtime for late-heresy.