Shadow and Iron supplement discussion

[Reyner]

Cheers Marshal Loss :) mine will probably look a bit grimy but that's because I'm a rubbish painter 

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

Anyone else wondering why the Dark Mech didn't just use that techno virus on every legion? The way it is written it seesm there was no way to resist it and it was completely successful.

Like I love the horror element of it and it's a beautiful fall, it just seems odd that given how successful and even "pure and loyal" legions couldn't resist it it we don't even have mentions of them trying to apply it to others rather then just one.

[noigrim]

Can the sinister have other arm weapons besides fist?

Also does the new book include fluff about what happens in konor during the dark crusade?

[Fajita Fan]

Overall I think S+I looks like a great supplement. There are a ton of rules in there for 6 Legios, a bunch of knight households, Psi-titans, new weapons and stratagems and also the campaign section. It’s a lot of stuff and the rules seem good.

 

I agree that the fluff is pretty light. We could all probably do with more detail on our Legios. But overall I think the book is a success at giving us a balanced set of information.

 

FW’s issues with proof reading remain though. The book mostly makes sense but there are some missing weapon rules (bypass?) and some mistakes, particularly in the cards for the Warbringer and Psi-Titan. No carapace rule on the WB’s big guns and the Psi-Titan’s laser blasters get +1 to hit at long range instead of -1… at least if you believe the card. It shouldn’t be hard to check this stuff.

I noticed the laser blaster on the website, is that a mistake or a change? My book is still being shipped.

 

Any word on how to pronounce Xestobiax? :lol:

[Beren]

Anyone else wondering why the Dark Mech didn't just use that techno virus on every legion? The way it is written it seesm there was no way to resist it and it was completely successful.

Like I love the horror element of it and it's a beautiful fall, it just seems odd that given how successful and even "pure and loyal" legions couldn't resist it it we don't even have mentions of them trying to apply it to others rather then just one.

 

It's possible that it was the province of a specific Dark Mech faction that didn't want to share, or that they simply never got a chance to compromise the security of an entire Titan Legio in the same way.  Also, after their initial engagements the Mechanicum got a lot better at anti-chaos precautions, as shown in Wolfsbane when

they try the same trick they did at Calth only for the data-daemon to get shunted int some kind of crystalline prison.

Anti-scrapcode capabilities are also mentioned as having greatly improved in Titandeath as well. Edited February 19, 2020 by Beren

[Fajita Fan]

Anyone else wondering why the Dark Mech didn't just use that techno virus on every legion? The way it is written it seesm there was no way to resist it and it was completely successful.

Like I love the horror element of it and it's a beautiful fall, it just seems odd that given how successful and even "pure and loyal" legions couldn't resist it it we don't even have mentions of them trying to apply it to others rather then just one.

In “Mechanicum” once the virus hit other forges shut down their links to the infected forges to prevent its spread. I assumed that meant word got out so that other forges would change their firewalls to be less susceptible, this was something I wondered myself when reading the book years ago.

 

Edit: yep, there you go.

Edited February 19, 2020 by Fajita Fan

[Marshal Loss]

Also, Mordaxis were presumably really receptive to it - I mean for heaven's sake their pre-heresy symbol was this:

 

 

The Word Bearers probably couldn't believe their luck

[Sandlemad]

Oh man, poor Mordaxis, they never stood a chance. So in terms of confirmed god-aligned titan legions, this puts Nurgle ahead.

• Nurgle: Mortis, Mordaxis
• Khorne: Vulpa, Audax (I think? They'd gone pretty savage and hanging around with the Redjak mechanicum...) Interfector (maybe? Mad but could just be generally chaotic)
• Tzeentch: ??? Fureans feels like they might fit (flames, pre-battle foresight rites) but it's very faint
• Slaanesh: ??? Not sure where if the questors and subjugators were ever associated with a particular legion.

Anyone I'm missing?

[Reyner]

Nurgle finally had its own "just as planned" moment with Mordaxis! :D 

[Marshal Loss]

Oh man, poor Mordaxis, they never stood a chance. So in terms of confirmed god-aligned titan legions, this puts Nurgle ahead.

• Nurgle: Mortis, Mordaxis
• Khorne: Vulpa, Audax (I think? They'd gone pretty savage and hanging around with the Redjak mechanicum...) Interfector (maybe? Mad but could just be generally chaotic)
• Tzeentch: ??? Fureans feels like they might fit (flames, pre-battle foresight rites) but it's very faint
• Slaanesh: ??? Not sure where if the questors and subjugators were ever associated with a particular legion.

Anyone I'm missing?

 

Legio Tempestus eventually get into bed with Tzeentch - they're the O.G. Bird Titans! You can see the foreshadowing in HH: Conquest with their "arcane numerology" obsession.

 

Legio Magna might fall to Khorne, but I can't remember where I read it.

 

edit: I think Legio Fureans stay unaligned, there are references to them in Titandeath (the Regia maniple page) viewing different Warlord Titans as competing deities

Edited February 19, 2020 by Marshal Loss

[Fajita Fan]

Audax has Khorne written all over them, also a 4 horsemen Corsair maniple where each Reaver is dedicated to a different god would look pretty badass. 

 

#20/20hindsight

[RedFurioso]

Oh man, poor Mordaxis, they never stood a chance. So in terms of confirmed god-aligned titan legions, this puts Nurgle ahead.

• Nurgle: Mortis, Mordaxis

Anyone I'm missing?

How could you forget about Legio Festering Death?  

 

Fureans often fought with the Emperor's Children during the Heresy, I think they became the Slaanesh Legio at the end.

[1ncarnadine]

Yeah, I’d tend to agree. Audax is probably going that way, even if we don’t have it confirmed yet. Their command Titan has presumably been hanging out on the Conqueror while all the ship’s water turned into blood, and one of the color plate examples has its head painted in bone to resemble a skull. Fair odds, there.

 

Infernus is probably going to end up in Khorne’s orbit, too. They’re very rage-fueled, and IIRC the FW black book entry on them implies they go on a hate bender in the late Heresy or maybe Scouring and just start attacking everyone. Also, their color scheme may have been inspired by one of the studio’s old Banelords. Though a lot of things were painted in black with orange flames back then. It was in, really contrasted the goblin green bases well.

 

We haven’t seen any Titan Legions that fall or probably will fall to Slaanesh yet, though. Maybe Legio Argentum? I’m just going off the name. At least we have Devine, though.

 

Fureans often fought with the Emperor's Children during the Heresy, I think they became the Slaanesh Legio at the end.

True, and a Fureans daemon titan shows up at the end of the latest Siege of Terra book with a panther head, which does feel a little bit Slaanesh. Though there are plenty of Traitor factions in the Heresy that fight alongside a force that’s falling to a different or even rival god (Vulpa & Devine as one example).

Edited February 19, 2020 by LetsYouDown

[Beren]

Maybe we'll get that bunch of Titans that showed up on Sortiarus for Tzeentch?

[Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra]

I can't seem to find the Shock Lance's Bypass rule in the book (or the rulebook), but I might be missing something? And if not, which of the other books has it? I hope they give us an armoury book or something some day, with all the gear and rules in it.

[Sherrypie]

 

Overall I think S+I looks like a great supplement. There are a ton of rules in there for 6 Legios, a bunch of knight households, Psi-titans, new weapons and stratagems and also the campaign section. It’s a lot of stuff and the rules seem good.

 

I agree that the fluff is pretty light. We could all probably do with more detail on our Legios. But overall I think the book is a success at giving us a balanced set of information.

 

FW’s issues with proof reading remain though. The book mostly makes sense but there are some missing weapon rules (bypass?) and some mistakes, particularly in the cards for the Warbringer and Psi-Titan. No carapace rule on the WB’s big guns and the Psi-Titan’s laser blasters get +1 to hit at long range instead of -1… at least if you believe the card. It shouldn’t be hard to check this stuff.

I noticed the laser blaster on the website, is that a mistake or a change? My book is still being shipped.

 

Any word on how to pronounce Xestobiax? :lol:

It's a sign mistake. The tradeoff is to either have turbolasers with 4 precise shots or laser blasters with 6 imprecise shots, getting that plus on top would be utterly silly.

[Fajita Fan]

That's interesting, should Warlord carapace weapons cost the same as their Reaver arm counterparts given their more restrictive arc of fire? I'd accept Warlord laserblasters getting a bit of a buff because they have a bigger reactor or something given they're harder to aim. 

[Sherrypie]

Nope, they should not. It's already the same gun twice with better heat management since you only push once for Shieldbane. It's at a good place, where people have actual options depending on the engine's role.

[Mandragola]

Roughly double the cost is roughly correct, I think. I’d maybe swap the price of Vulcans and missiles though. The missiles are just such a ubiquitous choice for warlords and they get a 5 point discount. They’re arguably better on a warlord than a reaver, as warlords have good long-ranged guns while reavers want to go close. Vulcans on warlords can only be used in a seriously narrow range band and in my experience hardly get fired. So I reckon missiles should be 20 points and Vulcans 15 or so.

[noigrim]

Carapace should all be able to aim 90°

[Marshal Rohr]

I really enjoyed the Lore in this one. It feels like they are trying to dig a little deeper and it really lands for me. I would recommend if you only buy one expansion pick this one. 

[Fajita Fan]

Roughly double the cost is roughly correct, I think. I’d maybe swap the price of Vulcans and missiles though. The missiles are just such a ubiquitous choice for warlords and they get a 5 point discount. They’re arguably better on a warlord than a reaver, as warlords have good long-ranged guns while reavers want to go close. Vulcans on warlords can only be used in a seriously narrow range band and in my experience hardly get fired. So I reckon missiles should be 20 points and Vulcans 15 or so.

See I wondered about exactly this - missiles are a good fit for quake/volcano loadouts and are cheaper. Between the restrictive firing arc and the scale range bubble I feel like Warlord carapace guns should be discounted. I thought S&I was going to adjust something when I saw the spoiler image of the laser blaster.

 

Also I’d agree with the 90* arc to simulate torso twists like in Battletech.

[noigrim]

Besides the guns can swivel in their mounts

[Sherrypie]

Carapace guns getting a larger arc reduces the design space for more nimble engines, as then the big boys wouldn't need support as critically as they do now. Test it out if it tickles your fancy, but personally I'd be against making life easier for the heavy hitters.

[Mandragola]

As someone who routinely fields three Warlords, I agree that the arc system works fine as is.

 

There are advantages and disadvantages to paired weapons. All the hits land on the same location and you can push for shieldbane with a single reactor push. But likewise your opponent can push his shields once to reroll saves against all the incoming attacks, when something like a double-gatling reaver has to be pushed against 2-3 times.

 

Anyway the point is, overall it works more or less ok.