Priming witn an Airbrush

[RedRowan]

Looking to get back into painting and am considering getting an airbrush for priming and some base coating and have a quick question.

 

If I was painting normally, I would prime with something like GW’s Mechanicus Standard Grey spray paint. With an airbrush, could I prime with the Mechanicus Standard Grey from the Air range or do I need to use a specific airbrush primer?

 

Thanks

 

Steve

[armarnis]

You could do that but i would advise you to look into a real primer, they do the job just better.

 

Adhesion, levelling and durability is imho higher with a good quality primer.

The badger stynylrez primer is just gold straight from the bottle.

[Axineton]

Stynylryz dries within minutes whereas Vallejo primers take 24hrs to fully cure. I prefer stynylryz because of the quick drying time.

[Arkhanist]

Another convert from vallejo primer to stynylrez primer here. They both go on as a smooth thin layer that gives a good adhesion for the next layers, but stynylrez cures significantly quicker, and is more robust when cured; it can be sanded easily, after half an hour or so, while vallejo primer tends to peel. Airbrushing is ideal for a primer coat as you get a cleaner, smoother coat than with a rattle can (virtually no risk of the dreaded pebble effect) and can be done regardless of weather conditions/daylight outside. 

 

There are various colours in both ranges, and of course you can always spray your desired base colour after priming. Zenithal priming to get a pre-shaded effect is also trivially easy; I do it for virtually everything, and it works really nicely with Contrast.

 

If you do want to airbrush citadel air paints after priming (because you want those precise colours) you do usually need to thin them a little more, and it will make your life a lot easier if you decant them into dropper bottles.

[RedRowan]

Thanks for the replies guys, that’s really useful information.

 

Steve

[Chaos Lord Tom]

If needed, I 100% agree with the above statements about Stynilrez: Recently bought an airbrush and priming with these is gamechanger : ultra smooth, quick drying, straight from the pot !

Edited February 11, 2020 by Chaos Lord Tom

[RedRowan]

Had a quick look online earlier and see that it’s available in black, white and grey so that should be fine for what I need. Now I just need to choose an airbrush!

 

Steve

[Bung]

You can buy MIG One Shot Primer, too.

Its rebranded Stynylrez.

Dont buy Grey Primer just buy Black and White and mix it yourself.

[Axineton]

Had a quick look online earlier and see that it’s available in black, white and grey so that should be fine for what I need. Now I just need to choose an airbrush!

 

Steve

 

If you’d posted about 2 weeks ago you could of got yourself a top of the range badger airbrush for $56 plus shipping which worked out at £71 via badgers birthday sale. But alas the deal finished on the 31st of January. 

 

I’ve used both badger and iwata and their great and do some good beginner ones mate. 

[Arkhanist]

Downside of the badger birthday sale is the delivery time usually stretches into months...

 

My usual recommendation for a solid workhorse brush is a badger 105 "patriot", or harder and steenbeck ultra 2-in-1. Either should set you back about £90, and last many years. Both are easy to clean with sane nozzle sizes, and fairly forgiving. They are both gravity feed brushes, suitable for use with acrylics (what we use!)

 

The ultra has the advantage of being quality german engineering, and has the option of a 0.2mm or 0.4mm nozzle/needle (the latter is more useful for acrylics; the 0.2mm for very fine detail work). You can also look at say, the evolution cr-plus for £40 more, which has a bulletproof chrome coating and a nicer fitting for the removable paint cup.

 

The (american) patriot 105 is built like a shovel and you can take the needle out without removing the handle; you can also buy different size needle/nozzle sets if you want later, but you're stuck with the welded on 5ml cup.

 

Patriot parts (e.g. replacement needles if you bend it!) are currently a bit cheaper, but neither is particularly expensive. Post-Brexit 2021, who the hell knows.

 

I don't recommend Iwata for beginners in the UK simply because the nozzles are usually very fiddly (making cleaning more difficult) and spares (from Japan) are fairly expensive here. For a more experienced user, they do do nice airbrushes.

 

For a compressor, get one with a tank. There's a bunch of cheap AS-186 based ones on ebay for around £75-80 which will do fine, e.g. this one. The cheap chinese airbrushes they usually come with are basically disposable junk though; they leak air, have crap nozzles that are a sod to clean, clog as soon as blink and have cheap-ass badly fitting seals.

 

 

Badger use a different size airhose coupling than everyone else; for iwata, H&S etc you'll be able to use the 1/8" BSP hose that usually comes with the compressor, though a quick release between hose and brush is always handy so you can remove the airbrush from the hose (for cleaning) without depressurising the airtank.

 

For badger, I think they usually come with a hose adapter, or you can get the same generic quick release that fits 1/8" BSP on the hose end, but add a badger 'tail' for the airbrush end.

 

You'll also need stuff to clean the airbrush, which is a whole post in and of itself. Simply put, you will get *very* familiar with cleaning your brush when using acrylic paint, it's just part of the terrain. Most problems are caused because there's some tiny fleck of dried acrylic you can't bleeping get to without stripping the bugger down - hence my emphasis on a beginner brush ideally being one you can easily clean!

[betrayer41]

Another vote for Stynilrez, life changing.  Goes on flawlessly and coverage is great

[RedRowan]

Thanks Arkhanist, that’s really useful. I had been thinking of the Harder & Steenbeck Evolution but the one you linked to there looks like it may be a nice beginner airbrush.

 

Steve

[infyrana]

How does Stynilrez fair going through the air brush over extended time periods for the purposes of cleaning ? I find my grey Vallejo primer constantly clogs up - I've not tried the black primer I have yet for being any different in clogging over my grey (ie maybe they were different batches, several people seem to think vallejo never clogs but I'm proof it does).

 

But yep, either way, you'll be very familiar with cleaning your air brush after priming :)

[Arkhanist]

Stynylrez is less cloggy than vallejo IMO - I had the same problem. I can usually put a 5ml cup worth of stynylrez neat through OK; I zenithal primed (dark grey, grey/white mix, white) 11 guys a couple of days ago with only a water flush between the grey/white and white.

 

It will need a decent clean afterwards though - it puts down a nice layer of primer on anything when it dries, including the inside of an airbrush nozzle! Nothing major though, just a wipe of the cup and needle with nail polish remover on a tissue, quick backflush with same, and a ream of the nozzle to get any stubbon bits out.

[Magos Takatus]

This is fantastic advice. I got an Iwata airbrush but thankfully I haven't needed to acquire spare parts yet. I will have to take this on board should I buy another one. I have both Stynylrez gloss black and Vallejo matt black and haven't had problems with either yet but when it's finally time to replace the matt black I'll go for the Stynylrez option.

[Bung]

Thanks Arkhanist, that’s really useful. I had been thinking of the Harder & Steenbeck Evolution but the one you linked to there looks like it may be a nice beginner airbrush.

 

Steve

I started with an Evolution and its a great Airbrush if you want to try out some advanced technics later. The only thing i recommend is to get a a Fine Line airhead.

The one used in the Infinity (nozzle, needle and airheads can be used in all three H&S airbrushes Ultra, Evolution and Infinity).

[Firedrake Cordova]

If I was painting normally, I would prime with something like GW’s Mechanicus Standard Grey spray paint. With an airbrush, could I prime with the Mechanicus Standard Grey from the Air range or do I need to use a specific airbrush primer?

The answer is it really depends on the paint.  Some ranges (e.g. Vallejo Air ranges) are designed so that they can be sprayed directly onto plastic/resin/metal without needing a primer to aid keying, whereas others really benefit from a primer first.  Also, bear in mind that with an airbrush, you'll typically be applying a thinner (and therefore more fragile) layer of paint than you would with a brush. 

 

For what it's worth, I use Vallejo Surface Primers just out of habit (and haven't had a problem), although they do benefit from a drop or two of Airbrush Flow Improver to thin them down a little.  Vallejo's primers come in 60ml and 200ml bottles ... suffice to say, 200ml is a lot of primer!

 

My usual recommendation for a solid workhorse brush is a badger 105 "patriot", or harder and steenbeck ultra 2-in-1. Either should set you back about £90, and last many years. Both are easy to clean with sane nozzle sizes, and fairly forgiving. They are both gravity feed brushes, suitable for use with acrylics (what we use!)

Arkhanist gives some very solid advice.  I'd say if you can afford it, go with the Evolution 0.4mm over the Ultra 2-in-1 purely because it's a better airbrush (the paint cup design is noticeably better), is a more modular design (you can get a paint limiter handle for it, along with a suction kit, 0.15/0.6mm needles, etc), and shouldn't clog too often (and therefore be less frustrating) due to the large(ish) nozzle.  Unlike the Badger and Iwata airbrushes, the standard Harder and Steenbeck airbrushes come in a nickel finish, which will show wear more readily than chrome (and also isn't good if you have a nickel allergy) - if you want the chrome finish, look for the CR+ version (which also has the air cap from the Infinity, PTFE seals in the paint-path in case you want to use solvent-based paints, and the cup comes with a lid).

 

One of the most important things when choosing an airbrush (along with ergonomics) is the availability and pricing of spares (needles, nozzles, and seals are consumable items).  At the moment that gives H&S a considerable edge within the UK, although obviously that may change at the end of the year.

 

For what it's worth, I went with an H&S Evolution CR+ 2-in-1 with a Sparmax compressor - no complaints!

Edited February 12, 2020 by Firedrake Cordova

[RedRowan]

Thanks Firedrake, appreciate the information. I am tempted to pay a bit extra and go for the Evolution as I have read good things about it.

 

In terms of paints, other than the primer, I will mainly be looking at GW as that’s what I’m used to. My interest in starting painting again is the release of GW’s new Adeptus Titanicus starter set and I will be wanting to replicate those colour schemes for my own titans. I am assembling those models I already own in sub assemblies and intend to paint them that way too which is why I started to think of using an airbrush. The armour panels seem like a good candidate for airbrushing and being such large models I want the smoother finish for priming and base coating.

 

Cheers

 

Steve

[infyrana]

Regarding paints for the airbrush, I would consider other options as well as GW and/or Citadel/FW.  Personally I find that GW paints dry up way too fast and their pots are not good for transferring into the airbrush (lot of wasted paint during brush transferal etc).  I like the paints in dropper bottles and find for my purposes that Vallejo works well.  There's a lot of cross over colours (colour charts online are very useful) and their model air colours are better suited to go straight into an airbrush.  I've just started trying the P3 paints and would like to give them a go in the airbrush at some point, I've had two sat on a shelf for a decade and they are as wet as they day I bought them still.  Of course other brands are available and your mileage may vary.

 

@Firedrake Cordova - oh man, how do you get on so well with Vallejo primer without that much clogging?  I also use flow improver which can definitely help as well as thinner depending how I feel - I guess I really do have a bad bottle mix.  Maybe I should drop my bottle off to you and see if it's just me :)

[Bung]

Thanks Firedrake, appreciate the information. I am tempted to pay a bit extra and go for the Evolution as I have read good things about it.

 

In terms of paints, other than the primer, I will mainly be looking at GW as that’s what I’m used to. My interest in starting painting again is the release of GW’s new Adeptus Titanicus starter set and I will be wanting to replicate those colour schemes for my own titans. I am assembling those models I already own in sub assemblies and intend to paint them that way too which is why I started to think of using an airbrush. The armour panels seem like a good candidate for airbrushing and being such large models I want the smoother finish for priming and base coating.

 

Cheers

 

Steve

You can do alot more than that. I am actually starting an IF force for the Heresy and doing yellow is alot easier. I dont use contrast paints.

 

But Tanks, Monsters and any other bigger modell works well airbrushed.

 

You can use any hobby paint in your airbrush with a good thinner. I personly prefer Scalecolor cause they are designed to be used with brush and airbrush.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

Definitely invest in a good airbrush. I believe the H&S is good to go, though. I went with an HP-CS and couldn't be happier, a lot of model hobbyist praise the Badger patriot 105 as well. You'll definitely be able to do primer and base-coating, but I wouldn't limit yourself to just that (unless of course you're just a fan of the way brush painted models look). Airbrushes make the entire painting process so much easier for just about every stage of the painting process except for the very fine detail work. I've even gotten to the point where I'm doing the majority of the flesh work on space marines heads with my airbrush. Airbrushing has a bit of a learning curve but I don't think it's anymore difficult than learning hand control and thinning ratios for hand brush painting.

Stynylrez primer is awesome stuff and blows away vallejo's surface primer. It's held up well on both regular plastics and FW resin, for me. 

[Axineton]

I use Vallejo game air and I’ve started using mig paints as well for airbrushing and they are both great. I’ve also used some greenstuff world colourshift paint that is pretty darn good as well especially for large models like vehicles. It’s like a two colour paint and changes colour in the light 

[RedRowan]

I’m looking at priming and base coating initially simply while I learn how to use an airbrush. I hope to use it for a lot more but it seemed sensible to start with something relatively straight forward at first while I get comfortable with it.

 

Same goes with the paints, choice of GW simply comes down having used them in the past. Once I start painting again I will likely start adding others to the collection based on what does or doesn’t work for what I am trying to do.

 

Steve

[Arkhanist]

The plus point of GW paints is they are very popular, so guides for them are everywhere. Since you're returning, the citadel colour app may well be useful, as it has a ton of pre-made combinations to achieve a particular colour, as well as which ones are used for particular reference models. (You can use the airbrush for at least the base coat) There are basically three ways of painting 'the GW way' now.

 

By brush there's the classic way of base paint, shade, then layer and edge highlights. Also, released about a year ago, prime a near-white base coat (either grey or cream), then use semi-translucent Contrast paints in a glazing-style approach, then optional highlighting.

 

And then, base coating, shading, and highlighting with an airbrush. They've recently added a few videos on airbrushing to the citadel colour website with more coming. The citadel air line has many of the same colours as the rest of the range, just thinner so less work to get them airbrush ready (I find they still need a little extra thinning)

 

Speaking of, thinning paint to the right consistency is the biggest learning curve of using an airbrush IMO. Getting the paint to go on just so is a combination of nozzle size, air pressure, distance to the mini and paint consistency. You need it thin enough to flow smoothly through the brush, but not so thin that it won't stick to the model but just spiders and runs. Definitely an art that requires experimentation, though getting pre-thinned 'airbrush ready' paints, like vallejo model air, game air and mecha does help. Vallejo are cheaper per-ml and come in dropper bottles (far easier to use with an airbrush) but aren't the same colours as GW. Using acrylic inks over a pre-shaded white primer is also becoming more popular, e.g. the airbrush equivalent of Contrast. Most paints it doesn't matter what brand thinner you use, so I mostly just use vallejo airbrush thinner. You can also use water, but that affects paint performance pretty quickly.

 

I find the historical modelling guys who do planes and tanks are years ahead of us when it comes to airbrushing, so they've all sorts of neat tricks on youtube that can be applied to warhammer, particularly for vehicles, and realistic weathering.

 

I have a good mix of different brands, usually because I'm following someone else's work as a starting point!

 

With regards the choice of brush; personally, I currently have the H&S infinity crplus and the patriot 105. Both are good brushes in different ways, though in hindsight I don't really use the extra options of the infinity and an evolution crplus 0.4mm would cover most of what I use it for. If you can stretch to the bit extra for the evo over the ultra, then it is worth it for the better cups (wider neck is also easier to clean) and extra compatibility, as the infinity and evolution share the same wide range of options, like airflow caps, cups, lids, needle sizes, handles etc etc.

 

I needed the crplus variant as I have a bit of a nickel allergy, but it does also mean my infinity looks identical to the day I bought it; the same can not be said of the patriot! The smoothness of the trigger on the H&S airbrushes is also just amazing.

 

The 2-in-1 version is also worth a look; I mainly use the 0.2mm needle for inks (i.e. not that often) and the 0.4mm for everything else, but the smaller paint cup is great because it reduces how much the airbrush blocks your view and the weight of the brush - I use the 2ml cup most of the time. It's cheaper to buy the parts as part of the 2-in-1 deal, but it's not much more to get them later if you 'd rather reduce the sticker shock now! The 0.4mm version is definitely what you're after for most use, it's just a shame they don't do the ultra in a standalone 0.4mm version, that would be a really great value starter brush then.

[Firedrake Cordova]

...I will mainly be looking at GW as that’s what I’m used to. My interest in starting painting again is the release of GW’s new Adeptus Titanicus starter set and I will be wanting to replicate those colour schemes for my own titans.

To be honest, there's nothing wrong with GW's paint (it might be a bit expensive in relation to the other options, and the pots may not be to everybody's taste, but the actual paint is decent) - if you're following tutorials, then it's an obvious choice.  One thing I would say, is that the pots the Citadel Air range come in makes accurately gauging mixtures difficult, as you'll be "measuring by eye" as you pour, so you may wish to invest in some empty dropper pots (Vallejo sell 17ml and 35ml ones, and there's a plethora of options on Amazon, etc), or some pipettes.

 

If you're looking to branch out in the future, Vallejo, Coat D'Arms, and Formula P3 are all really rather nice.  I'd say it's worth a look at the Formula P3 metallics and "natural" colours (skin, greens, and browns), as they've got some pretty unique colours in there.  The Vallejo Game Air and Model Air "silver" metallics are really nice, too, and their Metal Color line is supposed to be excellent.  

 

 

 I've just started trying the P3 paints and would like to give them a go in the airbrush at some point, I've had two sat on a shelf for a decade and they are as wet as they day I bought them still. 

The P3 paints airbrush well (obviously, they need thinning) - I've been using a mix of Gnarls Green and Iosan Green to do Salamanders armour (going for something like the 3rd Edition colour scheme).  As you've said, they keep well - I have some GW paints from the early 1990s (same pot and paint manufacturer), which are fine!

 

 

@Firedrake Cordova - oh man, how do you get on so well with Vallejo primer without that much clogging?  I also use flow improver which can definitely help as well as thinner depending how I feel - I guess I really do have a bad bottle mix.  Maybe I should drop my bottle off to you and see if it's just me

As a general rule, tip dry or clogging is too thick a paint, or too much pressure, although using acrylic paint will eventually cause tip dry (it's a matter of when, not if).  I generally mix the primer so that the "paint solution" is 20-40% Airbrush Flow Improver (with the rest being primer), and use a lowish pressure (< 20psi) with a 0.4mm needle.  I also use the Grey, Black, and Ivory (Mecha) primers, which probably helps, as white as a colour is generally prone to clogging and speckling.

 

FWIW, I rarely use the 0.2mm needle, as it is clog-prone (I've found even Daler-Rowney FW Inks need flow improver adding or they will clog quite quickly!)

 

 

Stynylrez primer is awesome stuff and blows away vallejo's surface primer. It's held up well on both regular plastics and FW resin, for me. 

I've heard lots of good things about Stynlyrez, unfortunately, it's not that easy to find in the UK.  I believe Ultimate Modelling Products' primer is rebadged Stynylrez, and easier to find, but I've never tried it (I have about 150ml of Vallejo primer left...)

 

 

I’m looking at priming and base coating initially simply while I learn how to use an airbrush. I hope to use it for a lot more but it seemed sensible to start with something relatively straight forward at first while I get comfortable with it.

That's a sensible way to start, to be honest.  Something you could try when priming is to try to prime specific bits (e.g. if you were priming a Space Marine, trying to prime just the knee pad), to build up control.  It'll take longer to prime your models, but you're not then also using time (and paint!) trying to increase your trigger/brush control, and if you miss and prime an area twice, it's not going to matter!

Edited February 13, 2020 by Firedrake Cordova