Adeptus Titanicus Rules Query Thread

[Dragonlover]

Ok, so, a few caveats:

 

1) Try to keep tangents, strategising and speculation to a minimum. I appreciate we may hit the occasional grey area that needs discussion though.

2) Back up your answers with page numbers and source publication if possible.

3) If you're not sure your answer is correct, say so. Similarly, if you've been running something with a particular interpretation, say why you're using that interpretation.

 

--------------------

 

I'll start us off:

 

On a Full Stride order, when do you take the extra move? Strategy Phase, Movement Phase or Combat Phase?

 

Dragonlover

[Sherrypie]

Full Stride happens in Combat phase, as defined clearly in the order.

[Marshal Loss]

Legio Mordaxis Toxin Nodes: do you pay once per Titan (e.g. a Reaver with 2x Melta pays once and gets the increased blast size on both), or once per weapon you wish to upgrade (e.g. that same Titan would have to pay twice).

 

Rules text for clarification:

 

 

 

Any Legio Mordaxis Titan armed with a Blast (3") weapon may take Toxin Nodes for +20 points. Decrease the Strength value of the weapon by 1 (to a minimum of 4) and replace the Blast (3") trait with the Blast (5") trait.

 

Pretty sure it is the former, but wanted to be sure

[Reyner]

For Mordaxis it reads like you pay once but other Legios with similar upgrades have to do pay for it per weapon. On the safe side I would say pay per weapon until we get an FAQ or something official.

 

I imagine it would be pretty funny to chuck Toxin Nodes on a Warhound with 2 plasma blast guns 

Edited March 3, 2020 by Reyner

[Mandragola]

My reading is... not conclusive. But I think it's per weapon as it always talks about a singular weapon rather than saying that all of the titan's blast weapons are affected. So I think it's 20 points per blast.

 

It's an odd weapon. I don't know how you make a melta toxic, but I guess it's already odd to have machines affected by a spiritual poison/rot, so whatever.

[Marshal Loss]

Hmm. Thanks guys, you're probably right. Big hit towards the effectiveness of the upgrade unfortunately

[dicebod]

So here's a question I've had since the game came out - maybe someone can clarify for me.

 

Failing orders - does failing an order in a maniple (that's not axiom) mean that you can't issue orders to other titans in that maniple, or does it mean you can't issue orders to anything in your army for that turn?

 

And is the opposite true?  If you fail an order for a support titan, does that mean that you can't issue orders to any of your titans in maniples?  Or do they still get to try to do orders since the titan that failed wasn't in their maniple?

 

And does this also bear out for knights?  Since they aren't technically part of maniples, would a failed order on a knight preclude you from issuing orders to your titans both in and out of maniples?

[Sherrypie]

If you fail an order, that's it. You cannot give any more for anyone in your battlegroup that turn.

 

Funnily enough, Axiom is written so that if you fail with a titan in that maniple you can still give orders for other titans in that maniple, but if you fail an order with a support unit or a unit from another maniple, you can't carry on with those in the Axiom.

 

Per page 41 of the rulebook, "If the check is failed... the chosen unit does not receive an order, and the controlling player cannot issue any more orders this phase."

Edited March 3, 2020 by Sherrypie

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

My reading is... not conclusive. But I think it's per weapon as it always talks about a singular weapon rather than saying that all of the titan's blast weapons are affected. So I think it's 20 points per blast.

 

It's an odd weapon. I don't know how you make a melta toxic, but I guess it's already odd to have machines affected by a spiritual poison/rot, so whatever.

 

I read the techno-virus as a kind of nanite weapon, a nano-phage that interfaces with technological systems and obviously has a physical presence from the descriptions in Shadow and Iron, so considering the upgrade doesn't actually change the characteristics of the weapons in question (it doesn't give them any kind of weird toxin effects, just makes their blast larger & more diffuse/less powerful) so it could just be the nanite virus interfacing with the weapon systems and optimising them to fire differently

[Marshal Loss]

 

My reading is... not conclusive. But I think it's per weapon as it always talks about a singular weapon rather than saying that all of the titan's blast weapons are affected. So I think it's 20 points per blast.

 

It's an odd weapon. I don't know how you make a melta toxic, but I guess it's already odd to have machines affected by a spiritual poison/rot, so whatever.

 

I read the techno-virus as a kind of nanite weapon, a nano-phage that interfaces with technological systems and obviously has a physical presence from the descriptions in Shadow and Iron, so considering the upgrade doesn't actually change the characteristics of the weapons in question (it doesn't give them any kind of weird toxin effects, just makes their blast larger & more diffuse/less powerful) so it could just be the nanite virus interfacing with the weapon systems and optimising them to fire differently

 

Doesn't really gel with the description, where the Dark Mechanicum alter their weapons to literally "spit forth disease"

[1ncarnadine]

I imagine it would be pretty funny to chuck Toxin Nodes on a Warhound with 2 plasma blast guns 

 

Not for 100 points of gear, I wouldn’t. Those points saved can go so far in this game, and I don’t feel comfortable with a Warhound knocking up into Reaver price territory. Not when you’re also paying by losing a point of strength, and working with Mordaxis’s inhibited mobility. It also hurts that the weapons that benefit the most from the upgrade (Melta Cannons & PBGs) have a shorter range.

 

Unfortunately, the Legio Infernus phosphex upgrade reads the same way. I don’t think I’d ever pay for that upgrade now, either, not that I’m planning on running Infernus. Do they want players to pay twice the price of each Inferno Cannon to maybe get some extra hits here and there? Even with their trait helping, that’s kind of crap.

 

On the one hand it doesn’t quite add up, but on the other they released the Acastus as it was and there are other big miss upgrades (Atarus, Solaria), so. I’ll send off an e-mail just so there’s some weight of response to get this FAQ’d. I don’t think they’ve phrased the upgrades in this way before?

 

edit: they did, with Interfector's Static Rounds. All of the other upgrades are unambiguous because they refer to things like missile launchers, which no titan is currently able to take more than one of anyway. Yeah, hopefully we see this answered some time. Infernus was the only of these that was any kind of popular, and the rest of their rules make up for it. No one playing Interfector was sane anyway, and idk how many will pick up Mordaxis.

Edited March 3, 2020 by LetsYouDown

[Sherrypie]

Noting that the FAQ was updated:

 

- Warbringer top gun now has Carapace

- Tracer Cloud and Concealment Barrage are used at the Strategy phase instead of any phase

 

All good.

[Mandragola]

The change to those clouds is pretty significant. Tracer cloud is now close to useless I think, except perhaps in extremely limited scenarios, like if your opponent is going to do retrieval. Drop it on the objective and then use vox blackout so they can’t full stride away. You could also potentially drop it on Acastus knights to force them to move, but they’d probably just move and not cause your opponent too much bother.

 

The smoke cloud is a bit better. You can still use it to protect your own titans (eg again during retrieval) and you can put it in front of something like a Warlord in a way that, maybe combined with some terrain, really does block its vision.

 

Good to get clarity on the carapace rule for the Warbringer’s guns. We kind of knew it should be there but good to get confirmation. It’s quite a nerf for a bellicosa I think, especially if you wanted to combine it with guns like the melta and gatling. Not such a big deal for a quake warbringer that wants to hang back, though still an issue if knights get inside its range.

 

There are a few changes in the FAQ that have an impact on the game's tactics. I might write up some thoughts for the Principia thread, though I don't have a ton of free time at the moment.

[Sherrypie]

I don't think tracer cloud is useless, it's just less bonkers than it was previously. During the critical midgame, you often know where some of the enemy engines want to go anyway, so you can play chicken with your opponent by good placing or make them sweat about those First Fires.

 

The smoke cloud is still great, but in its intended use. Making one of your engines completely invisible is powerful, but you can't just drop it on an enemy engine and deny all of their power for a turn at the start of Combat phase like you previously could.

[LucidNinja]

Ok so checking if this is legal rules wise.

 

Can I use the experimental weapon strat and then the overcharged cannon strat on the same weapon? And is it ok to use on a melee weapon? A fist isn't really a cannon but if it has maximal fire already...

[Sherrypie]

You can, there is no restriction on using it. Falcon Punch!

[Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra]

Ursus claws.

 

If you hit, use S+d6 and compare to Target Scale. If Coordinated Strike, tally up the number that hit, and apply a bonus to the S+d6. Depending on the final tally of the roll, you get a result ranging from knee-capping your Warhound to dragging the enemy to the ground via Catastrophic Damage to the Leg location.

 

Seems to me, Urus claws, the huge friggin' harpoons...

 

...can't scratch Knights?

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

Ursus claws.

 

If you hit, use S+d6 and compare to Target Scale. If Coordinated Strike, tally up the number that hit, and apply a bonus to the S+d6. Depending on the final tally of the roll, you get a result ranging from knee-capping your Warhound to dragging the enemy to the ground via Catastrophic Damage to the Leg location.

 

Seems to me, Urus claws, the huge friggin' harpoons...

 

...can't scratch Knights?

 

Well, the impale rule opens with: "After resolving an attack from an Impale weapon against a Titan, do not make an Armour roll."

 

To me this implies that when making an attack against something that isn't a Titan, you ignore the rule and make an armour roll, resolving the attack like other weapons?

[Fajita Fan]

 

Ursus claws.

 

If you hit, use S+d6 and compare to Target Scale. If Coordinated Strike, tally up the number that hit, and apply a bonus to the S+d6. Depending on the final tally of the roll, you get a result ranging from knee-capping your Warhound to dragging the enemy to the ground via Catastrophic Damage to the Leg location.

 

Seems to me, Urus claws, the huge friggin' harpoons...

 

...can't scratch Knights?

 

Well, the impale rule opens with: "After resolving an attack from an Impale weapon against a Titan, do not make an Armour roll."

 

To me this implies that when making an attack against something that isn't a Titan, you ignore the rule and make an armour roll, resolving the attack like other weapons?

 

Yes, albeit at S3.  I can’t think of a fluffy reason a harpoon with the oomph to hurt a Warlord can’t wound a knight but then again that’s why we bring plasmas to a fight. 

[Sherrypie]

RAW, at the moment, Claws just thunk at knights with one S3 poke without extra rules. Impale doesn't even ignore ion shields, only voids.

 

That said, I would welcome anyone to roll full damage on my knights, if they'd gone to the pains of using such a specialized short range weapon. The expected damage is only one dead knight anyway.

[Mandragola]

Knight lancers are pretty much a perfect antidote to ursus claw warhounds. Even after they sort out the rules (which flat out don't work right now) they'll still have a save on a 2 or 3.

 

Of course, if you pair the Ursus claw with a plasma blastgun, the balance swings right back around.

[Fajita Fan]

In previous fluff all of the Ember Wolves carried claws on their right arm but the newest art in the S&I book doesn’t show that. That’s pretty liberating from a list building perspective but it still feels weird that a harpoon the size of a crane claw bounces off an ion shield.

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

In previous fluff all of the Ember Wolves carried claws on their right arm but the newest art in the S&I book doesn’t show that. That’s pretty liberating from a list building perspective but it still feels weird that a harpoon the size of a crane claw bounces off an ion shield.

 

I guess it could be hand-waved away by saying a weapon designed to grapple Titans might have trouble targeting Knights, so you're just getting glancing hits?

[Fajita Fan]

Sure, and it was a good question to bring up. I have a feeling we will see more Audax players and they should consider bringing anti-Knight Knights as screens.

 

Good questions so far!

[blackbabyjesus]

No such thing as anti knight knights really though, I suppose questoris with thermal cannons up close could be effective ish, but still not as good as a blastgun or volcano cannon.